Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 3

[tlcya]

I haven't waded in to this too deep, but I did glance at the motion. I think it is a legit motion. First, I am not a big fan of Grand Juries. I much prefer the process of charging by information and preliminary hearing. I think there are a few weak arguments here but a couple strong ones as well, especially about the GJ asking questions either not receiving answers or getting misleading answers. So, we will see what the court does. The Court COULD dismiss with prejudice, meaning the charges couldn't be refiled (that is what happened in the Commonwealth v. Baker case you see cited in there. Or the court could just instruct the prosecutor to resubmit to a GJ again, or could just deny the motion entirely.

TY, yes, I thought some of the motion was weak but agree about the strengths. Stamper was also the one who testified at the initial hearing and it was his answers there that created such confusions about whether the judge and Stines' daughter had conversations or some sort of improper relationship. If that was how his testimony before the GJ went AND there was no official record of that testimony I think that is an issue.

Agree about generally disliking GJ process. Not a fan of secret meetings and closed doors. Transparency is best. Glad to know this isn't necessarily a fatal error on the part of the state even if the motion is granted.

 

[scapa]

How could the State have not known that failure to record the GJ testimony might lead to a motion for dismissal/ dismissal?

For those WSers who know the law, is this failure likely to be filed under "honest mistake" or "favour to the accused" or something else?

Stamper's testimony seemed off to many at the time. This motion makes an already baffling case even more so, IMO.

 

[mmeynstyn]

Motion to dismiss

This doesn't surprise me at all.

It probably won't be dismissed but at some point IMO he'll get away with it.

I hate to say this but, unfortunately, I am with you.

I am confused why the prosecution did not answer the GJ questions? Is the prosecution just not "all in" to convict this person? Is this a small town that really liked the sheriff and do not really want him to be convicted?

The Judge was murdered, period, on video. IMO, our judicial system is messed up when a murderer is back on the streets. I will, once again, be totally disgusted if this case is dismissed.

 

[Kudzuu]

I hate to say this but, unfortunately, I am with you.

I am confused why the prosecution did not answer the GJ questions? Is the prosecution just not "all in" to convict this person? Is this a small town that really liked the sheriff and do not really want him to be convicted?

The Judge was murdered, period, on video. IMO, our judicial system is messed up when a murderer is back on the streets. I will, once again, be totally disgusted if this case is dismissed.

Stines is a native Letcher County boy. The judge is not.

In Kentucky if you are from a rural county and are asked where are you from the answer will be the county name. Some counties have dozens of communities. It kinda gives you a feel for behavior.

Moo

But with access to the Internet 24-7 that is begining to change. But Stines and the judge I'm pretty sure they know the culture.

 

[PrairieWind]

How could the State have not known that failure to record the GJ testimony might lead to a motion for dismissal/ dismissal?

For those WSers who know the law, is this failure likely to be filed under "honest mistake" or "favour to the accused" or something else?

Stamper's testimony seemed off to many at the time. This motion makes an already baffling case even more so, IMO.

Once the State files its response to the motion we will have a lot more information about what happened. What portion of proceedings were not recorded, and why.

 

[OldAce]

How could the State have not known that failure to record the GJ testimony might lead to a motion for dismissal/ dismissal?

For those WSers who know the law, is this failure likely to be filed under "honest mistake" or "favour to the accused" or something else?

Stamper's testimony seemed off to many at the time. This motion makes an already baffling case even more so, IMO.

"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive."
So many "webs" have been woven by so many at cross purposes. Stines and attorney in defense, the state in prosecution, and still... The underlying cause of shooting, and it's instigators/supporters/
handlers. There was a cause/reason for this whole scenario to peak, and it is causing much scrambling to be "controlled".
Is and has been, and will be, my opinion.

 

[OldAce]

"Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive."
So many "webs" have been woven by so many at cross purposes. Stines and attorney in defense, the state in prosecution, and still... The underlying cause of shooting, and it's instigators/supporters/
handlers. There was a cause/reason for this whole scenario to peak, and it is causing much scrambling to be "controlled".
Is and has been, and will be, my opinion.

Once the State files its response to the motion we will have a lot more information about what happened. What portion of proceedings were not recorded, and why.

What portion of proceedings were not recorded, and why
Serious question here. . Who do you ask and for what exactly and how to determine any compliance.

 

[Seattle1]

Motion to dismiss

This doesn't surprise me at all.

It probably won't be dismissed but at some point IMO he'll get away with it.

Motion to Dismiss Murder-1 indictment where the murder was captured live on video? Really?

I doubt Detective Stamper has jurisdiction over the Federal Civil Case to answer questions to a State Grand Jury.

Relative to not recording the 10 minutes of the proceeding -- sounds like a technicality most likely for HIPAA compliance and protection of Stines privacy.

Good try by Mr. Bartley... might as well throw all he's got to work with at the wall. JMO

Looking forward to the State's response. I'm not a fan of GJ indictments...

 

[jepop]

Motion to Dismiss Murder-1 indictment where the murder was captured live on video? Really?

I doubt Detective Stamper has jurisdiction over the Federal Civil Case to answer questions to a State Grand Jury.

Relative to not recording the 10 minutes of the proceeding -- sounds like a technicality most likely for HIPAA compliance and protection of Stines privacy.

Good try by Mr. Bartley... might as well throw all he's got to work with at the wall. JMO

Looking forward to the State's response. I'm not a fan of GJ indictments...

Ridiculous. Murder 1 won't be dismissed on a technicality imo and I don't believe there is any substance to the defense's MTD anyway. I don't think it will be granted. In the extremely unlikely event it is, Imo the prosecution would just draft new charging documents for Murder 1 and recharge him. This is clearly murder, not manslaughter. Jmo

 

[tlcya]

I don't think the MD will necessarily be successful. But this situation does cause me to wonder, why, after the mess Stamper was at the initial hearing after Stines was taken into custody, would the state put that man anywhere near the GJ? ISP had already had to publicly clarify the mess he made of his testimony at that hearing. All his hemming and hawing seemed to suggest he wasn't really acquainted with the facts.

Then I recall how surprised the judge and prosecutors seemed to be that a defense attorney showed up to represent him unbidden and unhired as yet.

It was that defense attorney's questions that got Stamper all discombobulated. Why? Because he didn't have the answers to some of the questions he was asked and tried to wing it. Because nobody expected to really have to address any questions at that hearing.

But why then have the same, not prepared with facts guy, again, involved in the GJ proceeding? And then not record? It's troubling to me. The sheriff is guilty. Period. So why this seeming rush to get er done without transparency? JMO

 

[OldAce]

I don't think the MD will necessarily be successful. But this situation does cause me to wonder, why, after the mess Stamper was at the initial hearing after Stines was taken into custody, would the state put that man anywhere near the GJ? ISP had already had to publicly clarify the mess he made of his testimony at that hearing. All his hemming and hawing seemed to suggest he wasn't really acquainted with the facts.

Then I recall how surprised the judge and prosecutors seemed to be that a defense attorney showed up to represent him unbidden and unhired as yet.

It was that defense attorney's questions that got Stamper all discombobulated. Why? Because he didn't have the answers to some of the questions he was asked and tried to wing it. Because nobody expected to really have to address any questions at that hearing.

But why then have the same, not prepared with facts guy, again, involved in the GJ proceeding? And then not record? It's troubling to me. The sheriff is guilty. Period. So why this seeming rush to get er done without transparency? JMO

Guilty, yes. The railroad is steaming right along to close the case before too much more is disclosed. Some of the crossties aren't all lined up yet. One may get completely off the rails and derail the whole thing, Possible big wreck coming up.

 

[browneyes]

This murder was caught on video. In what universe would the charges be dismissed?

 

[Kudzuu]

I hope I am wrong.

But mountain folks like to take care of their own business. And the old school people have a healthy distrust of LE outside of local jurisdiction.

What would it take for a mountain man to kill another man in cold blood? Something very personal and a betrayal.

Stines shot the judge like he'd kill a dog to put it out of its misery. Shoot until it quits moving.

All my opinion.

Haven't you watched Justified?

In the universe of the hollers of Eastern Kentucky.

Moo.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I hope I am wrong.

But mountain folks like to take care of their own business. And the old school people have a healthy distrust of LE outside of local jurisdiction.

What would it take for a mountain man to kill another man in cold blood? Something very personal and a betrayal.

Stines shot the judge like he'd kill a dog to put it out of its misery. Shoot until it quits moving.

All my opinion.

Haven't you watched Justified?

In the universe of the hollers of Eastern Kentucky.

Moo.

I loved Justified but Raylan was a (darn fine) fictional character & this is real life.

Whatever was going through Stines' head to make him think this was any sort of "holler justice" well, he'll have plenty of time in jail to re-think it.

 

[OldAce]

This murder was caught on video. In what universe would the charges be dismissed?

This murder was caught on video. In what universe would the charges be dismissed?

The good folks down home sometime understand occurrences better than they are presented in a courtroom. Not to say it is right, but it has happened many times in many places.
Local residents, living there several years have a better understanding of what goes on there, regardless of how presented. So, if it doesn't seem right compared to what they know, they simply say no... A second GJ could well return a no bill.

I think what a lot of you are missing or not considering is simply this. Stines shot the judge, on camera, in the courthouse. He did not care. Now they had been friends (reportedly) for years.
Mullins did, or failed to do something that affected or would affect Stines (or his family). and caused Stines to feel "he needed killing".
Nothing factual has been presented as to what could have caused this, and it is just well, "Stines just went and murdered the judge." Insanity was not claimed as a reason, just as a level to plea too.
But Stines is alive (now) and can still reveal the reason. All the bumbling and incompetent actions are merely stalls by those peripheral to Stines reason.

 

[Kudzuu]

If it goes to trial jury selection will be interesting. Stines attorney better hope he can get some transplants for jurors.

It is obvious to me that Stines felt justified in killing Mullins.

@Ontario Mom

That's why I mentioned Justified.

 

[mickey2942]

If it goes to trial jury selection will be interesting. Stines attorney better hope he can get some transplants for jurors.

It is obvious to me that Stines felt justified in killing Mullins.

@Ontario Mom

That's why I mentioned Justified.

I can agree with this. But we would have to know the "reason" for shooting a man in cold blood. In an office, after eating lunch together.

 

[Brooklyn127]

As bad as it was when the Leongotha "mushroom murderer" took the stand, it was very enlightening.
No defense attorney in their right mind would recommend that the (former) sheriff take the stand here.
But I would pay money for the tickets to that!
What he was thinking, what the (real) background is... I wonder if we will ever know.

 

[KonaHonu]

If there is something much bigger at play and the sheriff is already screwed, we may seem him spill the beans in open court. This may have been his goal all along as OldAce has suggested (if I understand, I don't want to misrepresent his opinions.) But I would not be surprised if he does not live to testify unfortunately.

 

[OldAce]

If there is something much bigger at play and the sheriff is already screwed, we may seem him spill the beans in open court. This may have been his goal all along as OldAce has suggested (if I understand, I don't want to misrepresent his opinions.) But I would not be surprised if he does not live to testify unfortunately.

You understand correctly. And I too am considering an "Epstein" occurrence. The saving grace (his life) may be it is so widespread and known, that other levels of LE have been/are still on the case.