Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 3

[Florida_marlin]

The murder was captured on video. Kinda hard to deny. It’s reasonable to assume that when this goes to trial, potential evidence the defense has or thinks they have regarding all the “allegations” may be excluded from evidence by the court (judge). So, if the defense has facts to disclose, let’s see it! Put it out in public to make the state have to investigate. In other words, put up or shut up.

 

[tlcya]

The murder was captured on video. Kinda hard to deny. It’s reasonable to assume that when this goes to trial, potential evidence the defense has or thinks they have regarding all the “allegations” may be excluded from evidence by the court (judge). So, if the defense has facts to disclose, let’s see it! Put it out in public to make the state have to investigate. In other words, put up or shut up.

they can't IMO because it doesn't exist.

 

[Kudzuu]

It will be interesting what happens.
In general I think Ky law is easy on some crimes. A drug dealer killed a customer who attacked him with brass knuckles and he got 5 years for manslaughter. Something about fearing for his life.

IMO the defense will have to be creative and pick the jury very carefully.

 

[Luna20]

On CTv right now there is new footage showing the phones of Mullins and Stiens. The call that Stiens makes is a FaceTime call with his Aunt. He spent the night before at his Aunts house (doesn’t say why). He then calls his daughter and got no answer. Will post more if there is anything else that we didn’t know.

 

[Boxer]

Looks like an onset episode of psychosis to me. Stines sounds rationale after the killing because he believes what he saying, which is why onset episodes are so dangerous, the person doesn't suspect they have a problem yet.

The lawsuit is just a pro forma deep pocket lawsuit, a lack of training did not create the situation where a deputy was using power to rape or extort, it was a criminal act by the deputy.

Is there any proof the judge knew about the deputy's use of his and his secretary's bathroom as the hidden location being used by the criminal conduct of the deputy?
Is there any proof that Stine's daughter was involved with the judge?

 

[tlcya]

Looks like an onset episode of psychosis to me. Stines sounds rationale after the killing because he believes what he saying, which is why onset episodes are so dangerous, the person doesn't suspect they have a problem yet.

The lawsuit is just a pro forma deep pocket lawsuit, a lack of training did not create the situation where a deputy was using power to rape or extort, it was a criminal act by the deputy.

Is there any proof the judge knew about the deputy's use of his and his secretary's bathroom as the hidden location being used by the criminal conduct of the deputy?
Is there any proof that Stine's daughter was involved with the judge?

no and no to both, at least not that we've seen. Just a bunch of inuendo and rumor MOO

 

[Angelcat13]

Looks like an onset episode of psychosis to me. Stines sounds rationale after the killing because he believes what he saying, which is why onset episodes are so dangerous, the person doesn't suspect they have a problem yet.

The lawsuit is just a pro forma deep pocket lawsuit, a lack of training did not create the situation where a deputy was using power to rape or extort, it was a criminal act by the deputy.

Is there any proof the judge knew about the deputy's use of his and his secretary's bathroom as the hidden location being used by the criminal conduct of the deputy?
Is there any proof that Stine's daughter was involved with the judge?

This reminded me of something and makes me wonder if Stines has had a full medical exam since the shooting - especially to look for any evidence of brain tumors, lesions, cancer, etc.

My Grandmother had a brother who lived alone with and was taking care of his wife who was severely physically disabled with multiple sclerosis. My Grandmother started getting phone calls from the wife over the course of a couple weeks during which the wife would say that her husband had become verbally abusive, threatened to push her in her wheelchair into the River at the end of their street, etc. My uncle would get on the phone and deny everything and the police went out for welfare checks and always foynd him to be rational, the home (and my aunt) were in good condition, neighbors hadn’t noticed anything, etc. Everyone assumed it was my aunt that was having mental health issues. That was until one night when neighbors found my uncle in the middle of the street, naked and screaming threats/incoherent. He was always a kind, caring man so this was completely uncharacteristic of him! He was taken in for a medical/psych evaluation and was found to have brain cancer throughout most of his brain. He had somehow been able to hide/compensate for his mental decline until he just couldn’t anymore.

I hope they have had a complete medical & psychological evaluation of Stines to make sure there is/isn’t an underlying issue that could have led to his actions. I tend to doubt that there is a medical reason just because I would think it would have become more apparent with the amount of time that has passed, but I guess you never know.

 

[tlcya]

Court TV

mark 5:03 female witness describes Mickey coming in "all wound up" with a file in his hand and he seemed upset. She says the file appeared to be about domestic violence. He was adamant he needed to talk to Judge Mullins (who was in a zoom meeting at that time). She has no idea if Stines was upset at Mullins because of something in that file or what.

Then we "all" went to lunch together (meaning Mickey Stines, Kevin Mullins, Chrissie, Tim, Michael Clarke, and herself). Mickey was acting really strange, not his usual jovial, easy going self, he's normally real friendly and cutting up.

mark 6:15 this witness describes Mickey leaning back in his chair and when the topic of reelection came up he said "I'll never make it to the next election" and it struck her as odd.

She noticed his gun as "right in front" (I think describing where and how his holstered gun was sitting on his waist).

Michael Clarke joked "that's an awful big gun you got there"

Stines responded with something like "you think it's hot?"

Clarke responded with something like "Oh, I don't know, it looks like you filed the numbers off it"

Witness also found this exchange odd. Describes real odd look on Stines face when he walked in (not sure if she has jumped forward to courthouse after the lunch). Based on his normal behavior she describes his behavior all day THAT day as just plain odd.

He walked in and in a really hateful voice said "I need you all to get out of here, I need to talk to Kevin." She described everyone sort of looking around and exchanging glances because it was unusual for Stines to direct people to leave the judge's office rather than the judge himself.

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[tlcya]

Court TV witness interview footage (male witness) mark 7:35

Describing Mickey's behavior/affect: Something just wasn't right. That is something on my mind, he just, he wasn't "present", if that makes sense. Something was just "off"

It was odd, like um he had his gun on him and, Michael Clarke was giving him a hard time about his gun being small, and like there is a piece of paper in Dotson's office and he's like "I need you to go get that paper." I mean it was just odd.

He came in and was like "sorry, you all need to leave" and the tone, the demeanor was changed.

Next witness (2nd unidentified female witness) mark 8:12

The judge is my best friend. We all had lunch together at Streetside. And he did tell judge he needed to talk to him when we got back. But you know, after we'd been in court, we're all sitting in Judge's office and Mickey walked in a told us to all get out, he needed to talk to him. He just said "y'all get out" but I don't know the exact words. But it was odd, the way he did it, it wasn't the normal Mickey.

I mean we all pick and bicker at each other all the time but it's like fun. You know, just workplace - they always have been buddies.

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[Ontario Mom]

Court TV

mark 5:03 female witness describes Mickey coming in "all wound up" with a file in his hand and he seemed upset. She says the file appeared to be about domestic violence. He was adamant he needed to talk to Judge Mullins (who was in a zoom meeting at that time). She has no idea if Stines was upset at Mullins because of something in that file or what.

Then we "all" went to lunch together (meaning Mickey Stines, Kevin Mullins, Chrissie, Tim, Michael Clarke, and herself). Mickey was acting really strange, not his usual jovial, easy going self, he's normally real friendly and cutting up.

mark 6:15 this witness describes Mickey leaning back in his chair and when the topic of reelection came up he said "I'll never make it to the next election" and it struck her as odd.

She noticed his gun as "right in front" (I think describing where and how his holstered gun was sitting on his waist).

Michael Clarke joked "that's an awful big gun you got there"

Stines responded with something like "you think it's hot?"

Clarke responded with something like "Oh, I don't know, it looks like you filed the numbers off it"

Witness also found this exchange odd. Describes real odd look on Stines face when he walked in (not sure if she has jumped forward to courthouse after the lunch). Based on his normal behavior she describes his behavior all day THAT day as just plain odd.

He walked in and in a really hateful voice said "I need you all to get out of here, I need to talk to Kevin." She described everyone sort of looking around and exchanging glances because it was unusual for Stines to direct people to leave the judge's office rather than the judge himself.

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It seems like the more we learn, the less we know. I mean we still don't know what the heck he was so upset or "off" about that day.

 

[tlcya]

Female guest [Edited to add her name - Elizabeth Jones] on the show states she was told (seems to suggest it is a rumor because she hasn't seen any video to confirm it and doesn't say who told her this) that Mickey had earlier disarmed a security officer and taken his gun, looked at it, and commented how dirty it was. Then he pulled his own out and made the comments about how dirty his was and that whenever he went to hand it back to the court security officer, the court security officer caught it and said, that's not my gun (describing Mickey attempting to hand his own gun back to said security officer and keep that of the security officer) You've got my gun, you need to give it back. (this is what SHE was told happened at lunch but she has not been able to confirm that as fact).

male guest noticed that Mickey said "Y'all need to get out!" but then proceeded to close the door while they were all in those chambers. One would expect him to to the reverse, tell them to get out and then close the door.

 

[tlcya]

Court TV witness interviews (returning to the 1st unidentified female witness)

Mark 14:00

I heard gunshots and I just jumped up and ran, I ran out as fast as I could. I came to this building and I locked myself in. Honestly at first I thought something fell over but then it continued. Like I heard the very first one, the first two were like right back to back but that first one, I thought something had fell, but then immediately I heard the second one and I ran.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Female guest [Edited to add her name - Elizabeth Jones] on the show states she was told (seems to suggest it is a rumor because she hasn't seen any video to confirm it and doesn't say who told her this) that Mickey had earlier disarmed a security officer and taken his gun, looked at it, and commented how dirty it was. Then he pulled his own out and made the comments about how dirty his was and that whenever he went to hand it back to the court security officer, the court security officer caught it and said, that's not my gun (describing Mickey attempting to hand his own gun back to said security officer and keep that of the security officer) You've got my gun, you need to give it back. (this is what SHE was told happened at lunch but she has not been able to confirm that as fact).

male guest noticed that Mickey said "Y'all need to get out!" but hen proceeded to close the door while they were all in those chambers. One would expect him to to the reverse, tell them to get out and then close the door.

Okay that's just bizarre about the gun-swapping story. I'm curious if this security officer has come forward at all? If not, it does make you wonder why someone would make something like that up?

 

[tlcya]

15:20 mark (first female witness expands on what she found odd about Mickey that day)

This morning Mickey came over to talk to the judge about an EPO (not sure I am hearing this correctly but she is either saying EPO or TPO and if anyone can hear it better please chime in I feel like this is super duper important to the whys of this whole case)

He just seem a little off

Interviewer question: He just wanted to get the judge to sign the EVO or?

Oh no, somebody was coming to drop the order off and ask questions about it or something. But he was just like walking back and forth, walking around. He came back from lunch. The thing I thought was odd was whenever he came back he had his coat on his side.

He was just in normal clothes today, so I didn't even know if he was working, honestly. And you know because he didn't have it when he was first there. But when we came back it was there.

ETA an EPO is an emergency protection order. I suspect this is what gave birth to the Sheriff was asked to leave his home and had not slept at home the night prior rumors. JMO IMO

 

[tlcya]

guest Elizabeth says the local mood/gossip right now is that public support for Mickey has waned and quieted, and that support is more silent now because we still don't have a reason or explanation for what he has done and people who support Stines fear backlash by doing so publicly.

 

[Ontario Mom]

15:20 mark (first female witness expands on what she found odd about Mickey that day)

This morning Mickey came over to talk to the judge about an EPO (not sure I am hearing this correctly but she is either saying EPO or TPO and if anyone can hear it better please chime in I feel like this is super duper important to the whys of this whole case)

He just seem a little off

Interviewer question: He just wanted to wanted to get the judge to sign the EVO or?

Oh no, somebody was coming to drop the order off and ask questions about it or something. But he was just like walking back and forth, walking around. He came back from lunch. The thing I thought was odd was whenever he came back he had his coat on his side.

He was just in normal clothes today, so I didn't even know if he was working, honestly. And you know because he didn't have it when he was first there. But when we came back it was there.

ETA an EPO is an emergency protection order. I suspect this is what gave birth to the Sheriff was asked to leave his home and had not slept at home the night prior for that reason. JMO IMO

I'm unable to watch this so I really appreciate your commentary on it.
It sure sounds like she's implying it was Mullins that signed off on this EPO from Stines' wife.
Certainly implies the motive, if that's correct.

 

[tlcya]

In the footage after the shooting where Stines is being spoken to by LEOs in the corridor, he is insistent he wants to see his daughter but seems troubled or frustrated by their concern that she must be 18 or they will have to get permission from her mother (his wife) before allowing that.

I really think this will boil down to stress, lack of sleep, trouble at home, and a situation where the judge had signed or was going to sign an EPO against Stines over whatever was happening at home. JMO IMO

 

[Leilei]

guest Elizabeth says the local mood/gossip right now is that public support for Mickey has waned and quieted, and that support is more silent now because we still don't have a reason or explanation for what he has done and people who support Stines fear backlash by doing so publicly.

Thank you so much for breaking everything down for us.
It sure sounds like that EPO was against Stines, and I'm wondering if the person who was coming in to ask questions or drop it off may have been his wife.
From what I understand, he had been staying at his aunt's house for the two days prior to the murder.
Also, if Stines ordered everyone out of the Judges chambers, that goes to premeditation, right?
IMO.

 

[Boxer]

In the footage after the shooting where Stines is being spoken to by LEOs in the corridor, he is insistent he wants to see his daughter but seems troubled or frustrated by their concern that she must be 18 or they will have to get permission from her mother (his wife) before allowing that.

I really think this will boil down to stress, lack of sleep, trouble at home, and a situation where the judge had signed or was going to sign an EPO against Stines over whatever was happening at home. JMO IMO

It now sounds like the judge got Stines DV violence diverted to him.

 

[cujenn81]

15:20 mark (first female witness expands on what she found odd about Mickey that day)

This morning Mickey came over to talk to the judge about an EPO (not sure I am hearing this correctly but she is either saying EPO or TPO and if anyone can hear it better please chime in I feel like this is super duper important to the whys of this whole case)

He just seem a little off

Interviewer question: He just wanted to get the judge to sign the EVO or?

Oh no, somebody was coming to drop the order off and ask questions about it or something. But he was just like walking back and forth, walking around. He came back from lunch. The thing I thought was odd was whenever he came back he had his coat on his side.

He was just in normal clothes today, so I didn't even know if he was working, honestly. And you know because he didn't have it when he was first there. But when we came back it was there.

ETA an EPO is an emergency protection order. I suspect this is what gave birth to the Sheriff was asked to leave his home and had not slept at home the night prior rumors. JMO IMO

TRO? Temporary Restraining Order

ETA: never mind I see your ETA now.