Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 2

[RANCH]

Don't you think if this was true that Stines would have been criminally indicted by the grand jury during the nine month independent investigation by the OAG in 2022? This would have sent Stines to prison, and the plaintiffs could have amended their civil complaint with real evidence instead of an empty allegation. Just sayin..

I was just wondering if there was any evidence to support that scenario and if it would be a conspiracy if it really happened.

 

[Luna20]

Not sure what you’re getting at. “After” the sheriff dialed the number on the phone, clearly the number was going to be on the phone.

A media tease, bits of information. I’m surprised they said anything specific or definitive about the call this early on. I’m assuming that there hasn’t been a conclusive forensic report of the phones that has been released to the public.

They singularly reported on the call ‘Before’.

 

[Leilei]

I really believe the Sheriff knows about more corruption going on and the Judge is involved. Not everything is as it seems. There has been corruption in many small departments...Also how would a deputy have access to judges chambers for sex are you kidding me and the Judge doesn't know it's going on Seriously there is more behind the scenes!!!

Corrupt judge or not, why shoot him in cold blood, in front of cameras? Then walk out and surrender? If Stines was trying to stop corruption, there are better, LEGAL ways, of which he should be fully aware, that don't involve him throwing two lives away. Makes no sense IMO.

 

[Seattle1]

I was just wondering if there was any evidence to support that scenario and if it would be a conspiracy if it really happened.

Put it this way, based on the evidence, Stines was not charged civily, or criminally. Fields was the sole offender, there was no conspiracy.

 

[RANCH]

Put it this way, based on the evidence, Stines was not charged civily, or criminally. Fields was the sole offender, there was no conspiracy.

I'm thinking the same thing.

 

[KonaHonu]

Corrupt judge or not, why shoot him in cold blood, in front of cameras? Then walk out and surrender? If Stines was trying to stop corruption, there are better, LEGAL ways, of which he should be fully aware, that don't involve him throwing two lives away. Makes no sense IMO.

I'm not convinced the sheriff knew there were cameras. I'd bet a paycheck they were installed after the antius of Ben Fields. Given the sensitivity of cameras in a judge's chambers, it was probably the bailiff who was in charge of them and they would probably have been paid for out of the sheriff's budget. But that does not mean he was aware of them.

But yeah, the sheriff could have simply arrested the judge if he were corrupt. To me, and my opinion only, it suggests that if the judge was corrupt, the sheriff was in on it

My theory, without any real evidence is that the judge was getting kickbacks and the sheriff was involved but then got cold feet. Then they made threats against his family to keep him in line.

Please review https://www.chfs.ky.gov/agencies/dbhdid/Documents/SB 90 Annual Report Final 2023.pdf

It is the annual report for 2023 for the program established un SB 90, the Behavior Health Conditional Discharge Program (BHCDP) in which offenders could have their charges dismissed if they agreed to enter treatment, usually for addiction. Treatment was paid for by insurance or Medicare. There was also hundreds of millions of dollars in funding from the opioid settlement entered into between pharmaceutical companies and several states attorneys-general. The state has awarded $42.9 million in funds from the settlement. Letcher County alone got $21 million in funding for the BHCDP (almost HALF of the statewide total!):

Real Dollars for Real Recovery - Kentucky Attorney General

www.ag.ky.gov

Judge Mullins was the district judge that put everyone in that program. (No direct link for this fact but any basic research into the Kentucky judicial system will verify this.) Only District judges have this role. Circuit judges may take over later in the process. Mullins is the only district judge in Letcher county. But even if circuit judges were involved it only potentially includes one other person.

Letcher County was the first to implement the program and put by far the most people into the program. They put 142 through in 2023 according to the annual report linked.

$21,000,000/142 = $147,887 per person in the program from grant funds alone. That does not include anything collected from Medicaid or private insurance! I don't know how much treatment costs but I am sure that amount leaves a lot of room for graft!

I am convinced this is where we need to look! To quote Deep Throat - "Follow the money."

ETA: The US Supreme Court overturned a big part of the opioid settlement on June 28, 2024.

https://www.ncsl.org/state-legislatures-news/details/supreme-court-overrules-purdue-pharma-opioid-settlement-rejects-immunity-for-sacklers#:~:text=The%20U.S.%20Supreme%20Court%20has,in%20the%20ongoing%20opioid%20crisis.

and the FBI began investigation ARC, one of the biggest treatment center operators in Kentucky on 7/30/2024

https://www.fbi.gov/how-we-can-help-you/victim-services/seeking-victim-information/seeking-information-in-the-addiction-recovery-care-investigation

The KY attorney-general and his deputy had to recuse themselves from any matters rerlated to ARC 5 days before because the owner of ARC made large campaign contributions to them and the governor:

FBI investigates Addiction Recovery Care in Kentucky for possible health care fraud Addiction Recovery Care, or ARC, runs over 30 treatment centers in Kentucky. Now it’s under federal scrutiny. www.lpm.org

 

[RANCH]

If this case goes to trial, will the fact that the shooting video has probably been viewed by the jury pool make that much difference in giving Stines a fair trial?

I believe that it doesn't matter much if a juror viewed the video today or at the time of trial. It's clear what the video shows and the evidence that it gives a jury is not debatable.

Sheriff Stines is shown shooting Judge Mullins. The jury will have to decide if Stines is guilty of whatever he is indicted for based on all of the evidence presented to them by both the state and the defense and not just the video. JMO.

 

[Luna20]

I really believe the Sheriff knows about more corruption going on and the Judge is involved. Not everything is as it seems. There has been corruption in many small departments...Also how would a deputy have access to judges chambers for sex are you kidding me and the Judge doesn't know it's going on Seriously there is more behind the scenes!!!

Since sex was taking place in the judge’s chambers I’m inclined to believe that both were doing shady things. Stines had to be comfortable with the judge for covering for him.

Typically that is a case of having something to bribe each other with. Birds of a feather…

 

[RANCH]

Since sex was taking place in the judge’s chambers I’m inclined to believe that both were doing shady things. Stines had to be comfortable with the judge for covering for him.

Typically that is a case of having something to bribe each other with. Birds of a feather…

I'm unclear on your point. You say both where doing shady things and mention Stines and the judge but not the actual perpetrator who was Fields.

Did Fields bribe Sheriff Stines or the judge? Or both? Or did Stines bribe the judge? I'm confused again. JMO.

 

[TristanP]

Just thinking what Stines "kidnapping wife and daughter comment" might indicate.

I am speculating that the Sheriff was perhaps abusive to his wife and daughter, and the judge was somehow helping them to get out of the situation.

Maybe the daughter’s phone was the point of contact, instead of the wife’s, for safety reasons.

Sheriff found out Judge was helping them, went to Judge’s office, called the daughter from Judge’s phone so she/the wife/voicemail would hear him killing their “way out”.

I don’t know enough about any of it to be right, I’m sure. But there’s my thoughts.

 

[jlo6161a]

My theory, without any real evidence is that the judge was getting kickbacks and the sheriff was involved but then got cold feet. Then they made threats against his family to keep him in line.

Please review https://www.chfs.ky.gov/agencies/dbhdid/Documents/SB 90 Annual Report Final 2023.pdf

It is the annual report for 2023 for the program established un SB 90, the Behavior Health Conditional Discharge Program (BHCDP) in which offenders could have their charges dismissed if they agreed to enter treatment, usually for addiction. Treatment was paid for by insurance or Medicare. There was also hundreds of millions of dollars in funding from the opioid settlement entered into between pharmaceutical companies and several states attorneys-general. The state has awarded $42.9 million in funds from the settlement. Letcher County alone got $21 million in funding for the BHCDP (almost HALF of the statewide total!):


Judge Mullins was the district judge that put everyone in that program. (No direct link for this fact but any basic research into the Kentucky judicial system will verify this.) Only District judges have this role. Circuit judges may take over later in the process. Mullins is the only district judge in Letcher county. But even if circuit judges were involved it only potentially includes one other person.

Letcher County was the first to implement the program and put by far the most people into the program. They put 142 through in 2023 according to the annual report linked.

$21,000,000/142 = $147,887 per person in the program from grant funds alone. That does not include anything collected from Medicaid or private insurance! I don't know how much treatment costs but I am sure that amount leaves a lot of room for graft!

I am convinced this is where we need to look! To quote Deep Throat - "Follow the money."

and the FBI began investigation ARC, one of the biggest treatment center operators in Kentucky on 7/30/2024

I confess I'm open to this theory. Of course, more evidence would need to be uncovered. But these events could be the spark that redirects an investigation. Or not.

Even with all the discussion of phones and numbers dialed and stored, all that could be incidental to what the judge and sheriff were already discussing. Maybe Mullins and Stines already knew that the former was assisting the wife and kid. Stines was worried about his family as demonstrated with his preoccupation with contacting his kid. It could have been a comment by the judge on top of that that really set him off. He may have felt scapegoated, betrayed, and/or incensed. He puts the phone down and acts like he has nothing to lose.

It would still be important to know the facts about the kid's number on the phone, previous contacts or whether or not she had answered the judge's call and what she said if anything. Those are questions that can still be answered by analysis or interviews in process. And then we go back to the original scenarios (SA, restraining orders, or mental states)

Regardless, this remains a deeply sad story as the legacy of two otherwise trusted and admired men are forever linked in tragedy. That's the unavoidable result of these events.

 

[KonaHonu]

If this case goes to trial, will the fact that the shooting video has probably been viewed by the jury pool make that much difference in giving Stines a fair trial?

I believe that it doesn't matter much if a juror viewed the video today or at the time of trial. It's clear what the video shows and the evidence that it gives a jury is not debatable.

Sheriff Stines is shown shooting Judge Mullins. The jury will have to decide if Stines is guilty of whatever he is indicted for based on all of the evidence presented to them by both the state and the defense and not just the video. JMO.

The defense seems to be going for an "extreme emotional disturbance" defense based on what happened before the video clip we saw. I would think the defense would try to get the entire video admitted or the entire video suppressed. How that goes is debatable but I did not get a sense from listening to the preliminary hearing that the prosecutors would object to admitting the entire video at trial.

 

[TristanP]

My current theory:

Stines finds a troubling text conversation on his daughter's phone, but the other person is in her contacts with a fake name -- let's say "Kilroy".

Subject of the text conversation -- intimate? drug related? someone pressuring her regarding joining a club, or pursuing a non-dad-approved career, or changing churches or otherwise getting involved in something Stines might consider "stealing her away" aka "kidnapping"?

We've heard Stines had been troubled in recent weeks -- maybe he was trying during that time to figure out who his daughter had been texting with. Chasing down her friends and acquaintances and ruling them out one by one.

He’s the Sheriff. He would have had the phone number identified in like 2 minutes.

 

[Seattle1]

If this case goes to trial, will the fact that the shooting video has probably been viewed by the jury pool make that much difference in giving Stines a fair trial?

I believe that it doesn't matter much if a juror viewed the video today or at the time of trial. It's clear what the video shows and the evidence that it gives a jury is not debatable.

Sheriff Stines is shown shooting Judge Mullins. The jury will have to decide if Stines is guilty of whatever he is indicted for based on all of the evidence presented to them by both the state and the defense and not just the video. JMO.

When a juror panel has undisputed, direct evidence that Sheriff Stines is the man in the video shooting Judge Mullins multiple times with is service weapon, and Mullins dies as a result of these gunshot wounds, there is no question of his guilt that he caused Mullins death. I agree that it doesn't matter how many times a juror viewed this video, it will not change these undisputed facts.

However, while the State of KY does not consider premeditation when defining the offense of Murder pursuant to 507.020 Murder, it does consider the intent of the defendant and if he acted under the influence of extreme emotional disturbance for which there was a reasonable explanation or excuse, the reasonableness of which is to be determined from the view point of a person in the defendant's situation under the circumstances as the defendant believed them to be, then it cannot be murder, but can be manslaughter in the first degree, or any other crime.

In other words, I think it can be argued that whether or not the defendant was acting under the influence of extreme emotional disturbance cannot be determined by viewing the video alone. MOO

https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/law/statutes/statute.aspx?id=19717