RANCH
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I was just wondering if there was any evidence to support that scenario and if it would be a conspiracy if it really happened.
Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024 # 2
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A media tease, bits of information. I’m surprised they said anything specific or definitive about the call this early on. I’m assuming that there hasn’t been a conclusive forensic report of the phones that has been released to the public.
They singularly reported on the call ‘Before’.
Leilei
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Corrupt judge or not, why shoot him in cold blood, in front of cameras? Then walk out and surrender? If Stines was trying to stop corruption, there are better, LEGAL ways, of which he should be fully aware, that don't involve him throwing two lives away. Makes no sense IMO.
Seattle1
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Put it this way, based on the evidence, Stines was not charged civily, or criminally. Fields was the sole offender, there was no conspiracy.
RANCH
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I'm thinking the same thing.
I'm not convinced the sheriff knew there were cameras. I'd bet a paycheck they were installed after the antius of Ben Fields. Given the sensitivity of cameras in a judge's chambers, it was probably the bailiff who was in charge of them and they would probably have been paid for out of the sheriff's budget. But that does not mean he was aware of them.
But yeah, the sheriff could have simply arrested the judge if he were corrupt. To me, and my opinion only, it suggests that if the judge was corrupt, the sheriff was in on it
My theory, without any real evidence is that the judge was getting kickbacks and the sheriff was involved but then got cold feet. Then they made threats against his family to keep him in line.
Please review https://www.chfs.ky.gov/agencies/dbhdid/Documents/SB 90 Annual Report Final 2023.pdf
It is the annual report for 2023 for the program established un SB 90, the Behavior Health Conditional Discharge Program (BHCDP) in which offenders could have their charges dismissed if they agreed to enter treatment, usually for addiction. Treatment was paid for by insurance or Medicare. There was also hundreds of millions of dollars in funding from the opioid settlement entered into between pharmaceutical companies and several states attorneys-general. The state has awarded $42.9 million in funds from the settlement. Letcher County alone got $21 million in funding for the BHCDP (almost HALF of the statewide total!):
Judge Mullins was the district judge that put everyone in that program. (No direct link for this fact but any basic research into the Kentucky judicial system will verify this.) Only District judges have this role. Circuit judges may take over later in the process. Mullins is the only district judge in Letcher county. But even if circuit judges were involved it only potentially includes one other person.
Letcher County was the first to implement the program and put by far the most people into the program. They put 142 through in 2023 according to the annual report linked.
$21,000,000/142 = $147,887 per person in the program from grant funds alone. That does not include anything collected from Medicaid or private insurance! I don't know how much treatment costs but I am sure that amount leaves a lot of room for graft!
I am convinced this is where we need to look! To quote Deep Throat - "Follow the money."
ETA: The US Supreme Court overturned a big part of the opioid settlement on June 28, 2024.
and the FBI began investigation ARC, one of the biggest treatment center operators in Kentucky on 7/30/2024
The KY attorney-general and his deputy had to recuse themselves from any matters rerlated to ARC 5 days before because the owner of ARC made large campaign contributions to them and the governor:
FBI investigates Addiction Recovery Care in Kentucky for possible health care fraudAddiction Recovery Care, or ARC, runs over 30 treatment centers in Kentucky. Now it’s under federal scrutiny.
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RANCH
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If this case goes to trial, will the fact that the shooting video has probably been viewed by the jury pool make that much difference in giving Stines a fair trial?
I believe that it doesn't matter much if a juror viewed the video today or at the time of trial. It's clear what the video shows and the evidence that it gives a jury is not debatable.
Sheriff Stines is shown shooting Judge Mullins. The jury will have to decide if Stines is guilty of whatever he is indicted for based on all of the evidence presented to them by both the state and the defense and not just the video. JMO.
I believe that it doesn't matter much if a juror viewed the video today or at the time of trial. It's clear what the video shows and the evidence that it gives a jury is not debatable.
Sheriff Stines is shown shooting Judge Mullins. The jury will have to decide if Stines is guilty of whatever he is indicted for based on all of the evidence presented to them by both the state and the defense and not just the video. JMO.
Since sex was taking place in the judge’s chambers I’m inclined to believe that both were doing shady things. Stines had to be comfortable with the judge for covering for him.
Typically that is a case of having something to bribe each other with. Birds of a feather…
RANCH
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I'm unclear on your point. You say both where doing shady things and mention Stines and the judge but not the actual perpetrator who was Fields.
Did Fields bribe Sheriff Stines or the judge? Or both? Or did Stines bribe the judge? I'm confused again. JMO.
I am speculating that the Sheriff was perhaps abusive to his wife and daughter, and the judge was somehow helping them to get out of the situation.
Maybe the daughter’s phone was the point of contact, instead of the wife’s, for safety reasons.
Sheriff found out Judge was helping them, went to Judge’s office, called the daughter from Judge’s phone so she/the wife/voicemail would hear him killing their “way out”.
I don’t know enough about any of it to be right, I’m sure. But there’s my thoughts.
I confess I'm open to this theory. Of course, more evidence would need to be uncovered. But these events could be the spark that redirects an investigation. Or not.
Even with all the discussion of phones and numbers dialed and stored, all that could be incidental to what the judge and sheriff were already discussing. Maybe Mullins and Stines already knew that the former was assisting the wife and kid. Stines was worried about his family as demonstrated with his preoccupation with contacting his kid. It could have been a comment by the judge on top of that that really set him off. He may have felt scapegoated, betrayed, and/or incensed. He puts the phone down and acts like he has nothing to lose.
It would still be important to know the facts about the kid's number on the phone, previous contacts or whether or not she had answered the judge's call and what she said if anything. Those are questions that can still be answered by analysis or interviews in process. And then we go back to the original scenarios (SA, restraining orders, or mental states)
Regardless, this remains a deeply sad story as the legacy of two otherwise trusted and admired men are forever linked in tragedy. That's the unavoidable result of these events.
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The defense seems to be going for an "extreme emotional disturbance" defense based on what happened before the video clip we saw. I would think the defense would try to get the entire video admitted or the entire video suppressed. How that goes is debatable but I did not get a sense from listening to the preliminary hearing that the prosecutors would object to admitting the entire video at trial.
He’s the Sheriff. He would have had the phone number identified in like 2 minutes.
Seattle1
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When a juror panel has undisputed, direct evidence that Sheriff Stines is the man in the video shooting Judge Mullins multiple times with is service weapon, and Mullins dies as a result of these gunshot wounds, there is no question of his guilt that he caused Mullins death. I agree that it doesn't matter how many times a juror viewed this video, it will not change these undisputed facts.
However, while the State of KY does not consider premeditation when defining the offense of Murder pursuant to 507.020 Murder, it does consider the intent of the defendant and if he acted under the influence of extreme emotional disturbance for which there was a reasonable explanation or excuse, the reasonableness of which is to be determined from the view point of a person in the defendant's situation under the circumstances as the defendant believed them to be, then it cannot be murder, but can be manslaughter in the first degree, or any other crime.
In other words, I think it can be argued that whether or not the defendant was acting under the influence of extreme emotional disturbance cannot be determined by viewing the video alone. MOO
AppleTreeGreen
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Small town is rocked as their sheriff is jailed in the killing of a prominent judge
The preliminary investigation indicates Letcher County Sheriff Shawn “Mickey” Stines shot District Judge Kevin Mullins multiple times following an argument inside the courthouse.
Judge’s phone used to call Letcher County sheriff’s daughter before deadly courthouse shooting
“I wasn’t present,” Clayton Stamper, lead investigator, said. “But when he was taken into custody, I was told by one of the other officers that were there that he made the c…
www.wjhl.com
Small town is rocked as their sheriff is jailed in the killing of a prominent judge
The preliminary investigation indicates Letcher County Sheriff Shawn “Mickey” Stines shot District Judge Kevin Mullins multiple times following an argument inside the courthouse.
Kentucky sheriff who shot judge ‘angry’ in deposition: Lawyer
In a civil lawsuit, the sheriff was accused of ignoring one of his subordinate’s sexual abuse of female prisoners.
www.newsnationnow.com
So it seems that before the shooting and even before they had lunch together, MS and JM had met beforehand in JM’s office. A witness interacted with them right before they were about to leave for the restaurant and other than MS being a little quiet, he noticed nothing amiss.
Lunch with several other colleagues seemed to go well but something changed. It appears some people type of disagreement occurred between MS and JM or something was said that bothered one or the other because JM invites MS to come back to office afterwards, presumably so that they can talk somewhere more private. Furthermore, a fellow employee who was also eating lunch with them received texts from MS while they were all still seated that she believes may shes light on the motive or triggers for the shooting.
When JM and MS return to the office, there are at least four people in there who MS shuttles out so that he can have a private conversation with MS. Shortly afterwards, other witnesses in the vicinity hear the two arguing, we know MS attempts to call on his daughter on both of their daughters and then shots are heard from behind the office door as panic ensues and JM tragically loses his life in MS attempt to basically execute him.
Perhaps the strongest or most important piece of evidence is then on Stine’s employees phone as she indicates it would should show why MS thoughts and feelings towards his good friend turned so hostile and to have such a strong hold over him that he could just mercilessly and unjustly murder JM?
Perhaps the tragic murder of JM was premeditated but not by weeks or days but perhaps at most and hour or so as whatever drove MS to become homicidal triggered him during the lunch they all had together? After all, would MS had even gone back to the office if JM didn’t invite him after the lunch was over? If not, and this was something he had already been planning on a longer-term basis where exactly was he going to carry out the assault and murder and why deviate away from it at the risk of being cornered and trapped in a cramped office where any responding officer could be ready with a gun behind the closed door?
MS was noted to be agitated, angry and defensive on Monday during the deposition and according to The Mountain Eagle since mid-August friends and colleagues have reported that his behavior has changed in that he was erratic, quieter less communicative with the press. He also deleted his Facebook page because of fear that post criticizing his tenure as sheriff could lead him to get sued? Was this a valid concern or, in addition to the other behavioral and mood changes, a possible sign indicating he was beginning to suffer from paranoia or fear of persecution, psychosis or delusions? Did whatever cause him to target and kill MS also push over the edge and cause the delusions and paranoia to take over? Is that why he was trying to reach his daughter? Because in his mind or to his perception she and his wife were really at in danger of being abducted as some unknown cohort of opponents or enemies out to target, persecute and harm him and his loved ones? If so, real or not, the fear and distress caused by them are would have caused him to respond and guide his actions, including the horrific crimes he commits, as his mind was altered.
As courthouse workers screamed and sobbed, what they found out sent shockwaves across country - The Mountain Eagle
Two shots rang out from behind District Judge Kevin Mullins’s office door. Court personnel in the jury room and in the courtroom ran out. Sheriff Shawn M. “Mickey” Stines had just gone inside a few minutes before and lawyers and courthouse employees were sitting outside the door talking and...
www.themountaineagle.com
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I don't think there can be any question the sheriff killed the judge. We would need to see what happened before the video clip we have seen to decide if there was extreme emotional disturbance. If I were a juror and I was not allowed to see what happened before to clip we have seen I would almost certainly acquit! My instinct would be that if the prosecution wanted to hide something from me then there must be something defective in their case.
<modsnip: off topic>
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Seattle1
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Who is "both" were doing shady things?
I trust OP understands only Fields was indicted and charged with taking an offender who was on pretrial bail release to Mullins Chambers and restroom for sexual favors in exchange for manipulating the defendants ankle monitor and detention file the evening before defendant's Court hearing to make it appear the defendant had been compliant for the full month when only compliant for the hearing date. Sexual favors with plaintiffs mostly occurred in Fields vehicle.
“In return for not reporting them for violating the terms of their probation, they would give sexual favors. Fields did that to approximately three women,” Pillersdorf said.
Some of the abuses happened in Mullins’ chambers, according to the attorney’s client.
Fields plead guilty to 3rd degree rape, a Class D felony, served 6 months in jail, 6.5 years probation, and is a registered sex offender. So no, there wasn't rampant, nightly sex happening in Mullins Chambers, and no evidence that Mullins or Stines had knowledge of the abuses happening in Chambers.
Sexual Favors
No one has accused or implied that the judge was aware of what Fields was doing after hours in the judge's chambers (Fields had access since he was the bailiff for that judge at that time).
And Fields was the only one accused of using the chambers for sex. Stines wasn't accused of doing it or even knowing Fields was doing it. Stines is accused only of not training his subordinate well enough (or some similar wording). You'd expect Fields would know illicit sex w/defendants in chambers was a no-no, even without being trained on that point by Stines, but I guess not!
ETA hmm... since Fields was convicted of rape, I should have used that word to describe the events happening in chambers, instead of saying he was having sex w/defendant, my apologies. (reminder that sex between an officer and a defendant can't be consensual by law, because of the power imbalance aspect, IIUC)
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Seattle1
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^^rsbm
No offense taken. Plaintiffs' own lawyer refers to this as 'sex favors' and 'abuses' in exchange for not reporting them (his clients) for probation and/or pretrial release violations.
Seattle1
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Yes, just located the info on KM's bailiff:
Then a flurry of shots came from inside the door. The narrative changed from two shots fired in self-defense to an active shooter. The courtroom now empty, Deputy Wallace Kincer, the Court Security Officer for Mullins’s court, charged into the office and found Mullins dead. Minutes later, Kincer’s boss, Sheriff Mickey Stines, surrendered himself to Whitesburg Police and Sheriff’s Deputies, who entered the courthouse with patrol rifles at the ready.
[..]
Watts said despite the situation, he wanted to point what he called the “bravery and courage” of Wallace “Wally” Kincer, the bailiff on duty. He cleared the courtroom, got everyone there to safety, and then entered the office where the shots were fired.
“He went back to his training – instantly cleared the courtroom because he thought the shots came from inside the courtroom,” Watts said. “As soon as he found out they weren’t in the courtroom, he charged straight into the chamber.”
As courthouse workers screamed and sobbed, what they found out sent shockwaves across country - The Mountain Eagle
Two shots rang out from behind District Judge Kevin Mullins’s office door. Court personnel in the jury room and in the courtroom ran out. Sheriff Shawn M. “Mickey” Stines had just gone inside a few minutes before and lawyers and courthouse employees were sitting outside the door talking and...
www.themountaineagle.com
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