Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024

[Seattle1]

could be MS texted secretary (if that is who she was) to inquire if the judge had anything going on that afternoon or had time to meet with him. Secretary texts back nope he has nothing major this afternoon, tells judge MS wants a minute with you. So then the judge says Do you need to see me privately?

I'm looking for YT transcript to confirm but I believe the subject employee whose phone with texts by Stines is NOT a court employee but employee of the Sheriff's Dept.

Also, per the testimony of Investigator Stamper, it was during lunch with Stines (and others) that Mullins asked Stines if they needed to meet privately in Chamber. MOO

ETA: Confirming it's a Sheriff Office employee at about 46 min mark -- the WS approved YT sources still have the "live" video feature enabled which prevents accessing the transcript.

 

[RANCH]

I would caution folks to put too much emphasis on the "kidnap" statement and trying to parse the words. It was as I understand, double hearsay at least, so perhaps not too reliable as to whether those were the actual words used.

I wouldn't be surprised if we find out that Stines said something different.

 

[PrairieWind]

What I find interesting about this particular shooting, is that most courthouses now, if not all, make people go through metal detectors. The security guards won't let people in the courthouse with weapons.

But, the Sheriff doesn't have to go through any security. He is allowed in the area with his weapons.

That is why I think that a lot of places that screen for weapons, are not actually targeting the most likely threats, in a work place environment. The threat will be internal, rather than external.

Well the Sheriff is the one who is in charge of the security. Law enforcement routinely carry firearms into courthouses passed the security checkpoints. They are just not seen as being a threat.
In my current place where I practice most, attorneys didn't used to have to go through security, but that eventually changed. Also, there are two counties where I occasionally appear where the courthouses still have no metal detectors at all.

 

[tlcya]

I'm looking for YT transcript to confirm but I believe the subject employee whose phone with texts by Stines is NOT a court employee but employee of the Sheriff's Dept.

Also, per the testimony of Investigator Stamper, it was during lunch with Stines (and others) that Mullins asked Stines if they needed to meet privately in Chamber. MOO

I would like to know about the first part of your post. I don't want to have to watch the hearing again to find the spot that discusses that employee. All I remember from that portion of the hearing was that they are not an elected or appointed official they are someone employed by the county (whether by the sheriff or the court I don't recall).

I am aware of when the judge asked sheriff that question. I was speculating that the texts may have preceded the Judge asking Stines if they needed to meet privately and been what prompted him to ask the sheriff that.

 

[tlcya]

I wouldn't be surprised if we find out that Stines said something different.

I can see kidnap and take being exchanged or misreported. they could both mean the same thing in the right context or have completely different meanings in another.

 

[KonaHonu]

Stines said they are trying to kidnap both his wife and kid. He didn't say "he" but rather "they".

Who is "they" and why was both his wife and kid the alleged targets. If Stines felt that more than one person was a threat to his wife and kid why did he only shoot the judge and immediately surrender?

Something just isn't adding up here. JMO.

I agree. This is a situation where exact words matter. Who is "they"? And "take" could mean take them away by turning them against him whereas "kidnap" implies something much more nefarious.

Another thing that struck me about the hearing is the emotional outburst. It appeared to me to be from the sheriff's wife but i Could be mistaken. The judge's wife appeared to be more calm and collected. This could simply reflect their personalities or it could be that seeing the video brought home the reality of something she simply did not accept before.

 

[nerosleuth]

What I find interesting about this particular shooting, is that most courthouses now, if not all, make people go through metal detectors. The security guards won't let people in the courthouse with weapons.

But, the Sheriff doesn't have to go through any security. He is allowed in the area with his weapons.

That is why I think that a lot of places that screen for weapons, are not actually targeting the most likely threats, in a work place environment. The threat will be internal, rather than external.

I do know for a fact that if you have to go to a county office that is inside a courthouse building, you do have to go through the metal detectors.

I had to do this when I had to go to the courthouse to change the real estate ownership on property tax records.

 

[RANCH]

I can see kidnap and take being exchanged or misreported. they could both mean the same thing in the right context or have completely different meanings in another.

Or "family" could have been said instead of "wife and kid."

 

[Chimera]

From lead investigator Clayton Stamper, KSP, he personally observed Stines as mostly calm and that he requested Stamper treat him fair. Stamper testified he later heard from others that when Stines was in custody, he also stated "they're trying to kidnap my wife and kid."

IMO, context matters. Present tense would appear as if Stines thought his wife and kid were under threat, and I'm assuming he believed Mullins was behind the threat. I dunno -- seems to me Stines was suffering from paranoia and had been for at least a month. JMO

Bbm.
Very possible.

He was unraveling, perhaps , and he believed things were happening -- that, in actuality -- were not occurring at all ?
I'm also interested in some of Stine's dealings with perps and people in general during his tenure as a sheriff ?
Anyone going to come forward now, with what they may have perceived as unjust or shady dealings ?
Omo.

 

[Seattle1]

This was where my mind went when reading about placing the calls. That he manually typed in the number and when (and possibly what?) it popped up as a saved contact on the Judge's phone, the murder commenced.

I think Stamper's testimony was unclear - he'd been hesitant to speak to anything regarding phones and phone analysis and when he confirmed that Stines did in fact call his daughter from Mullins phone, it's being assumed that daughter was a saved contact in Mullins phone by Mullins. There's no evidence of this at this time -- only confirmation that Stines in-fact called his daughter using Mullins phone.

 

[Elley Mae]

According to Stamper, the judge and sheriff were at lunch earlier that day with a group, and at one point, Mullins asked Stines if they needed to meet privately.

Questioning from both sides revealed that while in chambers, Stines asked to see the judge's phone.

Stamper says Stines called his own daughter from Mullins' phone, and her phone "number was on there." Stamper said Stines shot the judge just seconds later.

Detective: Kentucky sheriff called his own daughter on judge’s phone 'seconds' before shooting

A preliminary hearing for a Kentucky sheriff accused of killing a judge revealed more details about what happened that day and hinted at some possible motives.

www.wlky.com

The detective said they have not yet looked at Stines' daughter's phone, but she has made statements to police about her conversations with Mullins.

He also said that an officer told him Stines made this comment right after the shooting, “They’re trying to kidnap my wife and kid."

…

Exactly what I heard.

 

[raja]

I haven’t gotten to the end of all the post today but I am just going to throw this out there. Something inappropriate could have been happening but not between the daughter and the judge but between the daughter and father. She may have confided this to the judge and the sheriff was afraid of what action would be taken resulting in him loosing both his wife and daughter. It may have even been nothing inappropriate but illegal that the daughter had told the judge.

 

[LadyL]

I agree. This is a situation where exact words matter. Who is "they"? And "take" could mean take them away by turning them against him whereas "kidnap" implies something much more nefarious.

Another thing that struck me about the hearing is the emotional outburst. It appeared to me to be from the sheriff's wife but i Could be mistaken. The judge's wife appeared to be more calm and collected. This could simply reflect their personalities or it could be that seeing the video brought home the reality of something she simply did not accept before.

how do you know who the people are?

 

[sunspun]

Questioning from both sides revealed that while in chambers, Stines asked to see the judge's phone.

RSBM

Actually, what I heard the detective say was that Stines "made a few phone calls" from his own phone, then he "borrowed" the judge's phone and made a call from it. So ok, basically what you said! But I haven't seen anyone comment on that part about Stines making more than one call from his own phone. I'm sure the detective said that. But he wasn't even asked who else he called or whether or not he spoke to anyone on those calls.

 

[housewife]

As I stated before... That case ruined 2 families. So.very.sad! (see story here:

)


However, now I am wondering since the "kidnap" statement... Did he actually think that the judge was maybe helping his wife and daughter "get away" from him? Possibly the judge was helping the wife to leave... Maybe there was trouble in their marriage and the daughter reached out to the judge for help... His being quiet/troubled for some time before this hints to me that there was possibly several issues at play here.

I am thinking the same.

The recent weight loss makes me think that some stress was happening (physical and/or emotional).

I'm wondering if a recent drug addiction contributed to the rapid weight loss and problems for his family.
His wife may have been trying to leave the marriage.

It's hard to escape a marriage if the controlling partner is LE.
IMHO Wife would have to escalate above his head to a judge to ensure her (and kid's) safety.
He's now proven to be capable of murder. Some men view their wives/children as property. They become enraged when their control is challenged and partners try to leave. They view themselves as victims and blame others so he feels like his property is being taken away from him unfairly, like a kidnapping.

 

[Chimera]

Watching the shooting footage again. (WARNING: It's graphic.) Starts at approx. the 20:00 mark in the video.

It's approximately 20 seconds of shooting, including shooting from both sides of the desk as well as after he opened the door.

Imo.

Thanks for the link.

Disturbing to see ... and tbh, I'm surprised it was shown to the public before a trial ?
Anyone with legal expertise care to weigh in ?
Tia.

Imo, I thought only the jury would be shown this.
Unless the court proceedings had some unsavory dealings with the charges of those brought in for other reasons. Some past corruptions regarding the sentencing of criminals in this county ?
Omo.

 

[Elley Mae]

"I was told Sheriff Stines tried to call his daughter, and tried to call his daughter from the judge's phone also," Kentucky State Police Det. Clayton Stamper said.

New details revealed in court about what happened before Kentucky sheriff fatally shot judge

Former Letcher County Sheriff Shawn "Mickey" Stines appeared in court on Tuesday and is facing a murder charge.

www.whas11.com

During the preliminary hearing, Stamper said Mullins and Stines met for lunch earlier on the day of the shooting. He said after lunch Mullins made a comment to Stines about meeting later in private in his chambers.
When the meeting happened, Stines was seated when he asked Mullins for his phone and tried to call his daughter.
He said Stines stood up "seconds" after seeing the judge's phone and began shooting.
Stamper said the phones are with KSP's forensics lab and he is not yet aware of what was on the devices at the time of the shooting.

 

[Ontario Mom]

According to Stamper, the judge and sheriff were at lunch earlier that day with a group, and at one point, Mullins asked Stines if they needed to meet privately.

Questioning from both sides revealed that while in chambers, Stines asked to see the judge's phone.

Stamper says Stines called his own daughter from Mullins' phone, and her phone "number was on there." Stamper said Stines shot the judge just seconds later.

Detective: Kentucky sheriff called his own daughter on judge’s phone 'seconds' before shooting

A preliminary hearing for a Kentucky sheriff accused of killing a judge revealed more details about what happened that day and hinted at some possible motives.

www.wlky.com

The detective said they have not yet looked at Stines' daughter's phone, but she has made statements to police about her conversations with Mullins.

He also said that an officer told him Stines made this comment right after the shooting, “They’re trying to kidnap my wife and kid."

…

Exactly what I heard.

Exactly the way I heard it as well.

 

[OldAce]

I disagree currently about the extreme emotional defense bit.

But I would like to get your thoughts on the bit Stines said about "they are trying to abduct kidnap my wife and kid" business and how that factors in to the idea that his motive (whether he was correct or not) seems to be about his daughter. Because that has me stymied and I cannot for the life of me figure out what MS may have meant by making that statement upon turning himself in.

Something to do with (they) enticing or attempting to entice the daughter into some activity (belief/cult type) and these attempts involving the wife (as in her supporting/resisting ) the activity.
There is lots here to be discovered yet, and it may well remain hidden until trial and MS testifies.

 

[KonaHonu]

how do you know who the people are?

I recognize them from published pictures and infer from information in the judge's obituary. Also, where they are seated is indicative. Stines's daughter, wife, and son are seated behind him. The dark-haired woman on the other side of the court room I believe is Mullins's wife and the older woman next to him who is also seen crying is probably his mother.