Killer Types

[UKGuy]

Sissi

And if the Richardson Twins came into play, it may follow the scream heard may not have been from the Ramsay house but somewhere closer.

If the RN was written prior to the murder then it completely changes its character from a chance event to a calculated premeditated klling.

 

[BrotherMoon]

My hobby is reading about art history/interpretation, particularly the interpretation of symbols in the art associated with religion, and specifically things having to do with divine inspiration. Depth psychologists speak of that experience in terms of psychosis. I research western esoterica and the role geometry plays in the development of myth. Geometric figures are experienced in dreams, lowered states of consciousness, the creative process and psychosis. I have experienced psychosis and the spontaneous production of mandala images in dreams and visions as a compensation for my lack of ego/persona development, This occured as the result of reading and unguided thought experiments. I think Patsy Ramsey also found her way to psychosis as the result of her attachment to literature.

Mandala images appear in the psyche as a compensation, an ordering principle in times of stress. A mandala is a sacred circle, often combined with an image of the quaternity. S.B.T.C is a quaternity, Saved By The Cross. The Cross is a quaternity: saved by the ordering principle.

 

[Eagle1]

I'd never heard of the twins either until this week in this forum. Oh boy, two more to add to the huge list!

Posters have listed reasons that Patsy is "unlikeable" to them. She's not unlikeable to me, so, I'm wondering why we're affected differently. IOW, what is the big difference between US?

My degree is in art, Fine Arts actually, union musician who's worked with orchestras, sidelined right now by a muscle problem, so is it that Patsy tends to be a creative free spirit, interested in both art and writing, her major, as I am, that just makes her different from those who don't like her? Is it as simple as that? And/or some peoples' not likeing wealthy, successful women? Do those who don't like Patsy also dislike Martha Stewart, who's different from Patsy in that she'd never enter a beauty contest? Never in my life entered one myself, but have heard that a malcontent rival of my husband's tells that I did, trying to make me unpopular to hurt him. Would that do it?

 

[BrotherMoon]

Mandala images appear in the psyche as a compensation, an ordering principle in times of stress. A mandala is a sacred circle, often combined with an image of the quaternity. S.B.T.C is a quaternity, Saved By The Cross. The Cross is a quaternity: saved by the ordering principle.

From Ego and Archetype by Edward Edinger;

Jung has demonstrated that the Self has a characteristic phenomenology. It is expressed by certain typical symbolic images called mandalas. All images that emphasize a circle with center and usually with the additional features of a square, a cross or some other representation of quaternity, fall into this catagory.

Fordham gives examples of mandala images in children which emerge as magical protective circles at times when the ego is threatened by disruptive forces.

A similar occurence takes place in the psychotherapy of adults when the unconscious may produce a mandala image which conveys a sense of calm and containment to a disordered and confused ego. These observations indicate that the Self stands behind the ego and can act as a gaurantor of it's integrity.

Saved By The Cross, saved by the mandala image, the image of the Self, the image of God.

 

[sariebell]

Jayelles,
It is interesting that you started this thread, because I have often argued about the different "types" of killers. I think that when you begin catagorizing these you have to look at motivations. The pediphile is interested in the sexual aspects of the crime and the murder is a result of this obsession. The kidnapper who takes a child for ransom is interested in exerting power over others and extorting money. I find it hard to believe that both motivators would exist in the same "Houdini" being. I am not expert, for certain, but when I attempt to apply the intruder theory and imagine an individual who is interested in molesting a kid and also collecting a ransom, it seems far fetched. Even further fetched, is the fact that a "kidnapper" would fail to "nap" the kid, yet leave a ransom note anyway. That just isn't the way these things go down. When I apply logic to this circumstance, I keep coming up with the fact that it doesn't add up that way. The only people who would seem to benefit to this would be those who were trying to cover up for a terrible deed that would forever change their lives.

 

[twinkiesmom]

A lot has been made about the bedwetting angle....what if she wet the bed because that's where she died?

I have a lot of experience with children in nighttime pullups, and from my experience, you don't notice that they've wet the bed until morning...they sleep right through it.

If she didn't get to bed until 10:30 or 11, the approx time of death (1 am if I'm not mistaken) seems too early to have a bedwetting incident unless she went to bed with a full bladder (not likely in my mind).

The staging in this case obscured the importance of sealing off the bedroom as a crime scene.

 

[LinasK]

Jayelles,
It is interesting that you started this thread, because I have often argued about the different "types" of killers. I think that when you begin catagorizing these you have to look at motivations. The pediphile is interested in the sexual aspects of the crime and the murder is a result of this obsession. The kidnapper who takes a child for ransom is interested in exerting power over others and extorting money. I find it hard to believe that both motivators would exist in the same "Houdini" being. I am not expert, for certain, but when I attempt to apply the intruder theory and imagine an individual who is interested in molesting a kid and also collecting a ransom, it seems far fetched. Even further fetched, is the fact that a "kidnapper" would fail to "nap" the kid, yet leave a ransom note anyway. That just isn't the way these things go down. When I apply logic to this circumstance, I keep coming up with the fact that it doesn't add up that way. The only people who would seem to benefit to this would be those who were trying to cover up for a terrible deed that would forever change their lives.

I agree Sari, I think John sexually abused her, as Patsy was probably unavailable to him, (Patsy dressed her up like a grown woman with Red lipstick), John accidentally killed her, and Patsy helped him cover it up. She was however, pissed about the bedwetting, IMO. Patsy had a separate washer installed upstairs near JB's bedroom... JB probably bedwet because she was sexually abused. I've seen beauty contest photos of her with bruises on her arms.:twocents:

 

[Camper]

I agree Sari, I think John sexually abused her, as Patsy was probably unavailable to him, (Patsy dressed her up like a grown woman with Red lipstick), John accidentally killed her, and Patsy helped him cover it up. She was however, pissed about the bedwetting, IMO. Patsy had a separate washer installed upstairs near JB's bedroom... JB probably bedwet because she was sexually abused. I've seen beauty contest photos of her with bruises on her arms.:twocents:

------------------>>> Sari, and LinasK, I like your thoughts on HOW and WHY JonBenet ended up dead!

Again I repeat I would like to have 'THE SCARF' that John put into JonBenets casket with her checked out forensically. I do believe the possibility is great that 'THE SCARF' MAY have fibres similar to the unidentified ones found at the crime scene.

Far more tender using a beautiful scarf than a ROPE contraption.



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[twinkiesmom]

<<I think Patsy was getting JB ready for bed and wanted her to go potty first and she resisted Patsy. Patsy then might have pushed her into the bathroom and JB hit her head on one of the fixtures, like the tub or toliet. JB was in bad shape due to the crack in her skull and if she had lived she would tell what happened and no way Patsy wanted that so she staged the whole thing.>>

Except the forensic evidence makes this scenario impossible. She died from the strangulation, not the head blow. The head blow had to have come after the blood flow to the brain stopped because it didn't bleed out into her skull.

Is it common for children who die accidently in their homes to be missing 2/3 of their hymen?

I think people are imposing their own psyches into this case. They want to believe that JBR died a quick painless death, and all of the other factors were postaccident staging. The forensics are clear that she really did suffer.

Whoever did it, it was not a simple household accident or momentary rage.

 

[Camper]

Yep, the hit came afterward to ID with the 'ransom' note.
Whoever wrote the note was hoping that LE ME would NOT notice the sexual aspect of the case.

Sorta like slight of hand trick, lookie lookie I am waving my hand stage left, while the other hand is doing something else entirely HOPING you won't notice the REAL deal.

Perp came and hit her over the head, left the note, and hid her body in the basement, duh, huh? That might work sometimes, but most times NOT.



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[twinkiesmom]

Camper,
No, I think the ransom note belied the murder, and the basement belied the bedroom. (Correct me if I'm wrong...isn't that basement room about as far away from JBR's bedroom as you could get in that house?) I think whoever did it wanted LE to think it was sexual but too extreme in overkill to be a family member.

I think whoever did it was hoping LE would focus on the boogeyman.

 

[Camper]

Camper,
No, I think the ransom note belied the murder, and the basement belied the bedroom. (Correct me if I'm wrong...isn't that basement room about as far away from JBR's bedroom as you could get in that house?) I think whoever did it wanted LE to think it was sexual but too extreme in overkill to be a family member.

I think whoever did it was hoping LE would focus on the boogeyman.

==========>>>Dear Ms. Twinkie, that was EXACTLY my point,
'diversion' from the REAL deal. I am singing the same song in harmony with you. Additionally to be redundant, that is also exactly WHY I think the neck was so important to John, in placing 'the' scarf in the casket with JonBenet, somehow his brain was connecting to the garote/rope.

This is a great secondary theory to hang right up front with BC's grande theory, of covering for Burkes friend er. Hmmm.

I also like my theory of zooming someone outta Dodge in 'a' plane, middle of the night.



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[Eagle1]

A psychotic lacks objectivity and thus blends identity with the inner archetype, they become a God in part. The liturgy that may exist with their particular Myth system is therfore "theirs", and they can do what they want with it as justification and validation for what is really self serving actions. It's the same reasoning going on in fundamental Islam.

A psychotic, my favorite theory! I like that above sentence, Bro. Moon.

Having just done a keyword search to learn a few things about sexual hypoxyphillia (erotic asphyxiation), I found that some psychotic men get sexually aroused by inflicting pain and humiliation on another person, or maybe even on an animal.

They may be failures, even slightly brain-damaged, and JonBenet's success may have been felt unusually strong. All the things that have been said about Patsy could be true of the psychopath man. There was precedent for murderous jealousy in the case of Cain and Able, in earth's very first family, so it can happen.

The word psychopath has been changed, actually, to sociopath, and if you do a search, you find they may admit to wanting to take over the world, may become cult leaders. One might have a doctrine about "pride", and assume JonBenet and Patsy had too much of it. Notice he wouldn't acknowledge her in the ransom note. Probably claims only men matter.

(A little aside, not completely off-subject, an illustration, in fact, maybe. I get bulletins about the Fla Terri Schiavo case, where it's being assumed a husband should have life and death power over a wife, even when he's living with another woman, etc. State Statutes he violated weren't enforced, and now they claim it's been too long, and they keep getting the same judge for every action, a Judge Greer. There's a word, "privacy" which I think links this to whoever planned the legalizing of abortion. And there used to be a site, "Kill the Useless Eaters", don't know if it's still there. The negative Drs. who claimed therapy wouldn't help Terri probably belong to whatever movement that may be, or influenced by it, and just as many doctors said therapy probably would help her, but they're not being respected. Lovely Pigeon has said in another thread an overdose of morphine would be more merciful than starving her to death, taking 2 wks, but probably Fla says that would be murder and starving her wouldn't be. Words being so twisted. Everyone please at least say prayers for her, to have this all reversed and get a miracle healing, okay? All kinds of religious groups are amassing, but who knows, this may be the Apocalypse madman's influence, where the power of the holy people is crushed. He's an opposer, according to prophecy, walking in the way of Cain. This is so sad.)