Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

Who do you believe killed JonBenet?

  • Patsy

    Votes: 168 25.0%
  • John

    Votes: 44 6.6%
  • Burke

    Votes: 107 15.9%
  • an unknown intruder

    Votes: 86 12.8%
  • BR (head bash), then JR

    Votes: 4 0.6%
  • BR (head bash); then JR & PR (strangled/coverup)

    Votes: 113 16.8%
  • Knowing all I know, still on the fence.

    Votes: 55 8.2%
  • John, with an 'inside' accomplice

    Votes: 11 1.6%
  • I think John and Patsy caught him and he made her cover up

    Votes: 17 2.5%
  • I still have no idea

    Votes: 57 8.5%
  • patsy and john helped cover it up

    Votes: 9 1.3%

  • Total voters
    671
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Not open for further replies.
I forgot to add those jacket fibers of hers were also found on the white blanket! Wood wouldn't let her answer any of those questions.... Nor the questions about fibers from Johns shirt found in JonBenet's vaginal area!

Right! The wool fibers from the Scottish shirt! Very special purchase for Christmas. :(. But all of that is just super silliness. Whereas the touch DNA stuff is a sure thing. :facepalm:
 
Where do you think she was?

IDK, but I do think she was somewhere less "findable". Like a basement closet or crawlspace. Or possibly even outside. In the cold. Hence the swaddling with the blankets. :(

I think JR got antsy that JBR's body hadn't yet been discovered and moved her to a more "discoverable" place. FW already searched the WC earlier and JBR was not there.

Sketchy.
 
The thing is that the fibers are absolutely most likely just transfer. Those fibers are all over the house. Easily transferred.
It is easy to get an explanation for them. The DNA of someone that does not belong there not so much.
 
The thing is that the fibers are absolutely most likely just transfer. Those fibers are all over the house. Easily transferred.
It is easy to get an explanation for them. The DNA of someone that does not belong there not so much.

Touch DNA is as easily transferred as fibers. In fact, it is MORE likely to be transferred because touch DNA can be found on panties from the people who sewed the garment in the Dominican Republic or wherever.

It is less likely that the fibers from Patsy's clothing would be under the tape than that the touch DNA from a garment worker would be found on those out-of-the-package size 12 panties.

So Patsy's fibers are a much bigger indicator of guilt than some "intruder". But let's ignore that and blame some hourly worker in a third world country. Because that makes so much sense.
 
So what about the other 5 sources? By your logic, they would have had to have been at the scene, wouldn't they?

No. See, about a dozen of us have made that point. But see, the "logic" is only ONE of those Touch DNAs (you know, from two different sources :rolleyes:) is that of the killer.

The others just majickly appeared. And yet it still exonerates the Ramseys.

Said no one ever.
 
IDK, but I do think she was somewhere less "findable". Like a basement closet or crawlspace. Or possibly even outside. In the cold. Hence the swaddling with the blankets. :(

I think JR got antsy that JBR's body hadn't yet been discovered and moved her to a more "discoverable" place. FW already searched the WC earlier and JBR was not there.

Sketchy.

I have explained many times why she wasn't anywhere else. opinions may differ, but science is not subject to opinions. There was ONE livor mortis pattern, proving she was placed on her back-legs straight out- head cocked to the right- EXACTLY the way she was found, within 10-15 minutes of death. The ONLY place she could have been was perhaps deeper into the winecellar, and moved (ONLY after livor was fixed) closer to the door. She could have been slid along the floor still wrapped in the blanket. If JR moved her that day during the time LA said he "disappeared" (between 10 am and noon) rigor would have been fully formed or close to it and she could have been picked up and moved. But there is no way she was ever bent, folded, or placed in any position other that the one she was found in after death.
 
I have explained many times why she wasn't anywhere else. opinions may differ, but science is not subject to opinions. There was ONE livor mortis pattern, proving she was placed on her back-legs straight out- head cocked to the right- EXACTLY the way she was found, within 10-15 minutes of death. The ONLY place she could have been was perhaps deeper into the winecellar, and moved (ONLY after livor was fixed) closer to the door. She could have been slid along the floor still wrapped in the blanket. If JR moved her that day during the time LA said he "disappeared" (between 10 am and noon) rigor would have been fully formed or close to it and she could have been picked up and moved. But there is no way she was ever bent, folded, or placed in any position other that the one she was found in after death.

I never said her body was manipulated. But I do believe JR moved her, however gently, from her original hiding place.

Fleet White looked in that cellar and didn't see her.

But I totally respect your take......because you back your stance with facts.....in a thoughtful way.
 
No. See, about a dozen of us have made that point. But see, the "logic" is only ONE of those Touch DNAs (you know, from two different sources :rolleyes:) is that of the killer.

The others just majickly appeared. And yet it still exonerates the Ramseys.

Said no one ever.

I thnk logic left the argument long ago;)
 
IT is, and I have a whole list, I just did not want to muck up the thread with more facts..


http://www.uis.edu/innocenceproject/events/touchdna/



This one gives inaccurate information about Jonbenet...

Since the Masters case, Colorado law enforcement authorities consulted with the Eikelenbooms and decided to use Touch DNA in the unsolved case of Jon Benet Ramsey. Her parents, ten years ago, had been wrongly suspected of the murder by Boulder police. Full DNA profiles where identified from the areas of the clothing where the crime perpetrator grabbed hold of the clothing of Jon Benet Ramsey.

Ummm, how many inaccuracies can be found in that one sentence...
 
IT is, and I have a whole list, I just did not want to muck up the thread with more facts..

http://www.sorensonforensics.com/fo...a-solves-13-year-old-cold-case-murder-mystery

There are many more.. the only people that seem unimpressed by TDNA are RDIs


Again, this is not TDNA.....

Science and a resilient little girl, who in an attempt to fight back her attacker, captured the key evidence -- Breck's skin cells -- under her nails. The evidence obtained was minute, but indisputable.
 
Science in court: DNA's identity crisis

http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100317/full/464347a.html

Jamieson, who gave evidence in the Reed brothers' and the Omagh bombing trials, says that the forensics community must validate procedures and further investigate the issues that low-copy-number profiling has brought to light, before scientists and courtrooms can have confidence in the results. "The public does not understand that just because your DNA is on an object it does not mean you have touched it," he says. A point of contention in the Reeds' case was whether the Reeds had ever come in direct contact with the plastic knife handles, or whether they might have transferred DNA indirectly through someone else's touch, or, say, by sneezing.
 
Touch DNA test would not have helped in Aarushi case: Expert

http://twocircles.net/2010dec30/touch_dna_test_would_not_have_helped_aarushi_case_expert.html

New Delhi : Murdered teenager Aarushi Talwar's parents feel that a touch DNA test may have helped nail her murderer but experts from Hyderabad-based Centre for DNA Fingerprinting and Diagnostics (CDFD) say the test does not yield reliable and "robust evidence".

Touch DNA test analyses skin cells left behind when an assailant touches a victim or objects at the crime scene.

Experts say the chances of contamination of a sample are very high in a touch DNA test, which brings down its reliability.

"The touch DNA test is not considered a very robust evidence anywhere in the world as chances of contamination of a sample are very high," J. Nagaraju, director in-charge and molecular genetics scientist at the CDFD, told IANS.

The CDFD, an autonomous body under the ministry of science and technology, conducted DNA and forensic tests in the Aarushi murder case when the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) took over the probe from Uttar Pradesh Police.

There is too much to post from the article but it is a must read for anyone curious about TDNA and how it works as it pertains to a murder case...
 
Whatever happened to that fingernail DNA that Wood claimed matched the co-mingled with JonBenet's blood panty DNA?


Wood also pointed out that unidentified DNA was also recovered from beneath JonBenet's fingernails on both hands. But investigators have long said that contamination problems render those samples of little value. A Rocky Mountain News Exclusive by Charlie Brennan
http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-DNA.htm
 
DNA evidence powerful, but not always the full story

http://www.bioforensics.com/news/MN_rape_10-09-1.html

Police drop charges against Minneapolis man rape victim knew


DNA can be critical evidence to connect defendants to victims in some cases, said Stephen Cribari, a law professor at the University of Minnesota. But it doesn't prove when or how the evidence was placed there.

"There may be a lot of innocent explanations for its presence," Cribari said. "How do you know when it happened? DNA is just one piece of evidence. It may be a very important piece, but it's one piece." http://www.bioforensics.com/news/MN_rape_10-09-1.html
 
Until very recently touch DNA was not even allowed into court. Many countries still dont allow it. In fact touch dna is used more often in clearing someone of a crime then it is in aiding in a guilty verdict (unless there is enough corroborating evidence to support it). Its not reliable enough, what with the very real possibility of contamination. The possibilities of secondary or even further transfers are to high. This leaves a guilty verdict based on Touch DNA open for appeal (which is what the Rs would have done had this gone the other way). Dont worry, I came armed..

So lets say the Rs are at the Ws Christmas party, shaking hands, hugging, touching serving spoons and plates, making drinks and taking drinks handed to them, opening gifts (gifts that had been in stores, touched by how many people I cant even guess, wrapped in paper also from a store and you get the idea, its limitless)... There was so much transfer that night you probably could have made a whole human being from it. The point is, it doesnt matter that it was there, its not even a big deal that it was, what does matter however is how it got there, you have to know that before you can say that it belongs to a killer. Until you know that, its just as likely to be innocent transfer. Its a 50/50 shot and with all the other evidence taken into consideration I'd say IDI's shot is about as big as the samples that were tested...

Touch DNA
Edited by Dr. Maher Noureddine, forensic DNA expert

So, when the SBI lab or investigators refer to “touch DNA,” you should think – very small amounts of DNA. With “touch DNA,” physical contact is sometimes assumed or hypothesized. Therefore, you should also think about the physical environment from which this evidence was collected. Always consider alternative explanations for why someone’s DNA would be expected to be found in a given area or on a given surface.

Because such a small amount of evidence is being analyzed (as few as 5-10 cells) contamination and transfer of DNA are issues that should be considered through each step in the analysis. Evidence collection , extraction of DNA, amplification and interpretation are four areas where attorneys should be aware of possible problems. http://ncforensics.wordpress.com/2011/07/21/touch-dna/


Touch DNA Resources

As to how likely it is that an innocent touch of a person or object will result in a DNA transfer, the variables are numerous. In fact, some individuals just tend to ‘shed’ their DNA more than others. This can be a biological variable or behavioral (think more sweating, more face rubbing, etc.). All things being equal….the more time a person is in contact with something, the more DNA they will likely deposit. However, consider an example of two people, each wearing a different ski mask for the same period of time. Will they leave the same amount of DNA? Of course not.

To demonstrate how easily DNA can transfer via innocent means, one need look no further than the forensic DNA laboratory. Extraordinary measures are used to ensure that among other things, the analyst’s DNA does not contaminate evidence they are working on. I can tell you that it happens, and more often than you might think. It does not mean that the analyst is terrible, it is just a testament to the ubiquitous nature of DNA and how easily it can be transferred. Of course, if this is occurring in laboratories, remedial steps must occur to limit the chances of it happening again.
http://forensicdnaconsulting.wordpress.com/

I have more kids but I'll leave it at this for now.....
 
Wood also pointed out that unidentified DNA was also recovered from beneath JonBenet's fingernails on both hands. But investigators have long said that contamination problems render those samples of little value. A Rocky Mountain News Exclusive by Charlie Brennan
http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-DNA.htm

Yes, I know. But Wood claimed, back in the day, it matched the sample found co-mingled with her blood in the panties. In other words...a big fat lie!
 
Until very recently touch DNA was not even allowed into court. Many countries still dont allow it. In fact touch dna is used more often in clearing someone of a crime then it is in aiding in a guilty verdict (unless there is enough corroborating evidence to support it). Its not reliable enough, what with the very real possibility of contamination. The possibilities of secondary or even further transfers are to high. This leaves a guilty verdict based on Touch DNA open for appeal (which is what the Rs would have done had this gone the other way). Dont worry, I came armed..

So lets say the Rs are at the Ws Christmas party, shaking hands, hugging, touching serving spoons and plates, making drinks and taking drinks handed to them, opening gifts (gifts that had been in stores, touched by how many people I cant even guess, wrapped in paper also from a store and you get the idea, its limitless)... There was so much transfer that night you probably could have made a whole human being from it. The point is, it doesnt matter that it was there, its not even a big deal that it was, what does matter however is how it got there, you have to know that before you can say that it belongs to a killer. Until you know that, its just as likely to be innocent transfer. Its a 50/50 shot and with all the other evidence taken into consideration I'd say IDI's shot is about as big as the samples that were tested...

Touch DNA
Edited by Dr. Maher Noureddine, forensic DNA expert

So, when the SBI lab or investigators refer to “touch DNA,” you should think – very small amounts of DNA. With “touch DNA,” physical contact is sometimes assumed or hypothesized. Therefore, you should also think about the physical environment from which this evidence was collected. Always consider alternative explanations for why someone’s DNA would be expected to be found in a given area or on a given surface.

Because such a small amount of evidence is being analyzed (as few as 5-10 cells) contamination and transfer of DNA are issues that should be considered through each step in the analysis. Evidence collection , extraction of DNA, amplification and interpretation are four areas where attorneys should be aware of possible problems. http://ncforensics.wordpress.com/2011/07/21/touch-dna/


Touch DNA Resources

As to how likely it is that an innocent touch of a person or object will result in a DNA transfer, the variables are numerous. In fact, some individuals just tend to ‘shed’ their DNA more than others. This can be a biological variable or behavioral (think more sweating, more face rubbing, etc.). All things being equal….the more time a person is in contact with something, the more DNA they will likely deposit. However, consider an example of two people, each wearing a different ski mask for the same period of time. Will they leave the same amount of DNA? Of course not.

To demonstrate how easily DNA can transfer via innocent means, one need look no further than the forensic DNA laboratory. Extraordinary measures are used to ensure that among other things, the analyst’s DNA does not contaminate evidence they are working on. I can tell you that it happens, and more often than you might think. It does not mean that the analyst is terrible, it is just a testament to the ubiquitous nature of DNA and how easily it can be transferred. Of course, if this is occurring in laboratories, remedial steps must occur to limit the chances of it happening again.
http://forensicdnaconsulting.wordpress.com/

I have more kids but I'll leave it at this for now.....

I sincerely appreciate all the information you've brought to the table. My guess .,,.those that should read it, won't!

I will, even though I don't need convincing;) I find the topic fascinating!
 
Yes, I know. But Wood claimed, back in the day, it matched the sample found co-mingled with her blood in the panties. In other words...a big fat lie!


Ahh, lol.... Sorry, I thought you were looking for a link with info...LOL...
 
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