KS - Patricia Kimmi, 58, Horton, 6 Nov 2009 - #2

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Mima:
I am glad you are here and expressing your opinion.
I respectfully disagree about the two men.

I don't know Patricia K's weight, but
I know from news articles and her daughter's posts, that blood was found on
the porch and in the yard. Her dentures were found down the road and the cap and his money clip were found by the road.
I think she found like h e i i. I think she punched and hit and struggled and then once in the truck, got away down the road and there was another fight, but she was overpowered by his strength or the weakening of her own strength.
IMO, as always.

Prayers for Patricia and her family.
 
But how could one person get her in the truck and then by the time they got in drivers seat, Pat could jump out.

There bout had to be 2 people unless he tied her up first and then he'd have to pick her up to put her in. Again, he'd have to be really strong to do that himself.

At first I heard there was blood on the porch, but then I though Rita said the only blood found was on her teeth and a few drop on the ground where her teeth were. My memory might be wrong though. I need to go back and read.
 
Whiskey Horse said:
Rita & all your family:

Altho I have been quiet the last few days, I have carried you with me thoughout my days (and nites). I miss Pat so much, but being here with you and the rest of her family has helped tremendously. I can only hope that all of us being with you, has given you all some measure of peace also.

My little candle by my nativity is the first thing I see as I walk into my dark living room in the evening after chores and altho it brings tears to my eyes, it also brings a bittersweet smile to my face because it always brings Pat to the forefront of my mind and if nothing else, Pat is known for her smile and her laughter.

Please be reassured by all of our opinions, that your Mother, your Mother-in-law, your Ninni is so darned proud of all of you, you are following in her teachings and her love and love you she does.

God bless you all
Love
Pam
Click to expand...

Thank you Pam. You all have given us more comfort than you will ever know. For me personally, it makes me feel closer to her to talk with and hear from all of you.

I hope that we continue to make Mom proud...because I think the hardest time is yet to come.
 
Mima said:
Been thinking about this so hard. I am convinced there were TWO perps.

First of all, may I ask something? How much did Pat weigh? I know the descriptions say 5'6" and 160 pounds. Well, I am 5'6" (53 years old) and I weigh 155. By the pictures that are being posted, Pat looks like she weighs more than than. Not being rude, but just truthful. Did she weigh closer to 200? I weighed 206 a few years ago (before dieting) and she looks closer to that weight. Please don't be offended by my mentioning her weight because there is a reason for it.

How in the world could one man get a larger fighting woman in a truck single handedly? Even if he hit her so hard he knocked her out, then she would be dead weight to try to manage. I don't really think it can be done unless he was really really strong.

Either the perp didn't have a weapon or she wasn't afraid he'd use it because of the struggle on the porch. I really have my doubts that someone could get me into their truck unless they had a knife or gun. I have been taught to fight even if they had a weapon and Rita in one of her posts said something to the effect that Pat knew that too. If they used the weapon to make her get into the truck there would have been blood at the house/yard!

How could she have then gotten out of the truck with 2 men? Well, I think we've been thinking that if she was in the truck with a man on each side of her she wouldn't be able to jump out. But......

What if the truck was a 4 door with bucket seats in the front? Then the 3 couldn't sit up front (with a man on each side of Pat) because of the console. So that would put Pat and one man in the back seat. She then could "maybe" have jumped out.

I don't recall the aprox. year of the truck. My husband said he thought that most of the newer trucks have bucket seats in the front where 3 people couldn't sit all up front.

I really do not think one man was in on this. Can someone clarify how much Pat did aprox. weigh for sure?

And could the truck possibly have been a 4 door?

Still just thinking...................
Click to expand...

My brothers and I are a hard bunch to offend :) I have no idea what my Mom's true weight is - we took the information straight from her DL. I am *the worst* at estimating people's ages and weights so...

You may be absolutely right on the 2 person theory. Family and friends are split on what we think about whether there was one or two people. I think the most likely of the 2-people theories is that it would be a man and a woman. I don't want to think that because it is so hard for me to comprehend that a woman would go along w/ something so horrible but I can picture the man thinking he subdued Mom enough, in whatever manner, to have the woman be "in charge" of her on the ride to wherever they were going. Then down the road, Mom is able to come to and realizes that it's now or never and bails out...especially if she was in the front seat and the woman was in the back seat, if there was a backseat. I don't see her getting away if she was in the middle of 2 people in the front.

We've thought about there being a weapon involved - would Mom go along somewhat willingly (into the truck)? She answers the door to someone she knows, has a conversation, then things start becoming scary to her, they pull a gun and she's kind of in shock? Then down the road she realizes that she's facing death by staying in the truck and takes her chances by bailing out? I think he had Mom's cooperation in getting her in the truck at the house, but had to struggle getting her back in at the 2nd scene.

How big is this guy, how tall? If he had some height on her and weighed the same, would he be able to handle her if she were knocked out? I don't know.

There were some drops of blood at the house, more at the 2nd crime scene. I don't think anyone knows if the truck was a 4 door or extended cab or what. I think it was said that the truck was late 90's-early 2000's.
 
Mima said:
But how could one person get her in the truck and then by the time they got in drivers seat, Pat could jump out.

There bout had to be 2 people unless he tied her up first and then he'd have to pick her up to put her in. Again, he'd have to be really strong to do that himself.

At first I heard there was blood on the porch, but then I though Rita said the only blood found was on her teeth and a few drop on the ground where her teeth were. My memory might be wrong though. I need to go back and read.
Click to expand...

There were some drops of blood at the house and more at the 2nd scene. I dont know if there was blood on her teeth or not.
 
Please let me know whether you have received my email messages, thanks :), and know that we will never, never, stop praying for your mom, and for all of you.
 
Hi all. I don't usually post, just read and lurk, but this story has captured my heart. Patricia seems so lively and happy in her pictures and it saddens me to think someone did her harm. Also, I hate the fact that there aren't any answers yet; where is she? what happened?, etc.

Rita, my thoughts and prayers go out to you and your family. I pray that God touches each of you and helps you to find the answers you need, along with healing all of your broken hearts.

Also, I had a question. I've tried to keep up with most of the comments but I am not sure if this has been brought up or not but ... do you think your mother would have walked outside to investigate a strange noise she might have heard? I'm wondering if someone might have parked down the road and went up to the house and intentionally, or unintentionally, maybe, made a noise that brought her outside and that's when they grabbed her. I am not sure how cautious your mother is but you did say she wouldn't have opened the door to someone she didn't know, right? So maybe she wouldn't have walked outside to investigate a noise. I don't know - it's just a thought.
 
Re: Pat 5'6" 160 lbs
Agree based on a photo I saw of Pat she surely must weigh more than 160 lbs (based on comparison to my mom who is 5'4" 150 lbs).
 
It is really hard to say if there were one or two people involved. Hopefully one day we will know. I (for some nutty reason) think that there could have been just one - because Pat probably "played injured or subdued" to buy time. It is clear that she was able to think and reason- most people agree that she bailed out where she did because it was a spot close to a home and that she most likely knew that someone was home at the time. Unfortunatly she didn't make it to this home and they didn't notice that here was something going on out front. THAT is really really hard to think about, even for me and I didn't really know Pat.


Well, we are all just waiting for news aren't we? I have to tell you what happened to me this morning:

My husband told me first thing this morning that I had a message on my answering machine I needed to listen to. I didn't recognize the voice and they didn't say who they were. They just said

Lana, I had to call to tell you about something that has happened. This is very important! you can call me back before midnight or I guess you can check your email.

They didn't sound happy - they didn't sound sad, they had a voice that could have been a woman with a lower voice or it could have been a man...I didn't have a clue who it was!!

When I heard it I said "Who is that?" and my husband said, "I don't know, it is a Topeka number."

I looked at the display, saw the number and I just became all unraveled. I am sure that my husband thought I was a lunatic. But, it wasn't a Topeka number - it was a 741 number which I knew was a Brown county cell number!!! I just knew it was someone telling me there was news about Pat!!

My hands were shaking so bad I could barely log onto my email!! I was almost crying and my husband - poor guy didn't know what was going on-- kept looking at me like I was nuts. (well, I should also say I knew it could have been that I also knew that something might have happened to my brother who was in the Horton area at the time ~ so either way - it sounded like it could have been very good news (Pat) or very bad news (something happened to my brother)!

When I looked at my email -- I saw that it was another friend from that area - a friend who just wanted to let me know about his engagement!! Yes, then I realized that now I knew that voice! I am happy for him, but I really hoped that it was news of Pat!!
 
TRL said:
Hi all. I don't usually post, just read and lurk, but this story has captured my heart. Patricia seems so lively and happy in her pictures and it saddens me to think someone did her harm. Also, I hate the fact that there aren't any answers yet; where is she? what happened?, etc.

Rita, my thoughts and prayers go out to you and your family. I pray that God touches each of you and helps you to find the answers you need, along with healing all of your broken hearts.

Also, I had a question. I've tried to keep up with most of the comments but I am not sure if this has been brought up or not but ... do you think your mother would have walked outside to investigate a strange noise she might have heard? I'm wondering if someone might have parked down the road and went up to the house and intentionally, or unintentionally, maybe, made a noise that brought her outside and that's when they grabbed her. I am not sure how cautious your mother is but you did say she wouldn't have opened the door to someone she didn't know, right? So maybe she wouldn't have walked outside to investigate a noise. I don't know - it's just a thought.
Click to expand...

I think it's a possibility she might have checked if she thought it was an animal or something. She was always taking pictures of whatever animals wandered up that way - deer, squirrels, etc. If it spooked her in some way, I think she would have called. The parking up the road I just don't see happening. Whoever did this took a lot of risks, but that would have been a huge risk due to how long her driveway is. I would bet it's close to 1/4 mile. Add to that the distance they would have to park so as not to be visible from the roadway, and chance not being seen walking in or walking out. Unless there were two people...

It breaks my heart to have been so close and not have known anything so wrong was happening to her. I can see her yardlight from my house, and I was right here fixing supper for the kids. I am so, so mad that someone thought it was ok to just destroy her life. With no thought of her family who loves her and needs her. I could handle losing her if she was in a car wreck or had a heart attack or died in some peaceful way. Even as hard as that would be, I could accept it...but to know that some monster planned this, tracked her down, and did whatever they did to her...it haunts us every minute of every day. It's so SENSELESS.

There will be no rest or peace for those involved in this. For the rest of our lives, we will search for her. Justice will be served. But it will never bring back what we have lost.
 
cclearly said:
It is really hard to say if there were one or two people involved. Hopefully one day we will know. I (for some nutty reason) think that there could have been just one - because Pat probably "played injured or subdued" to buy time. It is clear that she was able to think and reason- most people agree that she bailed out where she did because it was a spot close to a home and that she most likely knew that someone was home at the time. Unfortunatly she didn't make it to this home and they didn't notice that here was something going on out front. THAT is really really hard to think about, even for me and I didn't really know Pat.


Well, we are all just waiting for news aren't we? I have to tell you what happened to me this morning:

My husband told me first thing this morning that I had a message on my answering machine I needed to listen to. I didn't recognize the voice and they didn't say who they were. They just said

Lana, I had to call to tell you about something that has happened. This is very important! you can call me back before midnight or I guess you can check your email.

They didn't sound happy - they didn't sound sad, they had a voice that could have been a woman with a lower voice or it could have been a man...I didn't have a clue who it was!!

When I heard it I said "Who is that?" and my husband said, "I don't know, it is a Topeka number."

I looked at the display, saw the number and I just became all unraveled. I am sure that my husband thought I was a lunatic. But, it wasn't a Topeka number - it was a 741 number which I knew was a Brown county cell number!!! I just knew it was someone telling me there was news about Pat!!

My hands were shaking so bad I could barely log onto my email!! I was almost crying and my husband - poor guy didn't know what was going on-- kept looking at me like I was nuts. (well, I should also say I knew it could have been that I also knew that something might have happened to my brother who was in the Horton area at the time ~ so either way - it sounded like it could have been very good news (Pat) or very bad news (something happened to my brother)!

When I looked at my email -- I saw that it was another friend from that area - a friend who just wanted to let me know about his engagement!! Yes, then I realized that now I knew that voice! I am happy for him, but I really hoped that it was news of Pat!!
Click to expand...

I think we've all gone crazy over little things lately. I chased a car down my Mom's road one night only to find it was a neighbor (and my good friend) just checking her mail.
 
I don't think you should even give one more second to thinking that you might not be "making your mom proud". You kids have been absolutely remarkable through all of this. You have been a "point of light", pointing to CHRIST. You have taken what your mom taught you and LIVED IT. Alot of people talk the talk, but don't walk the walk. This "walk" has been tremendously hard, and I don't know if it will get harder or not...but I do know you won't be walking it alone. We will all be with you, but most importantly, JESUS will be with you, as he is with your mom right now, wherever she is. Whatever has happened, the light will be shone on it when the time is right, and your mom will be blessed by the way you honored her. God sends us friends and family to help us through these hard times, my old buddy used to call it "God with skin", when he was surrounded by prayer warriors and friends. We know God loves us, and is there for us, but the human touch can do so much when directed by the one who loves us the most...God. Hold on Kimmi kids, you are already the "victors" in this war, and you will prevail. Be Blessed, and sleep in peace tonight, we will be standing in prayer with our armor on.
 
I love your little "bee", makes me think of spring....makes me think of nice weather again.
 
WHOEVER DID THIS...did you think about what would happen next? After you took her? Did you ever think about what would happen when Gene, Tony, David and I went to her house? Did you think about what would go through our heads? Who we suspected? Did you imagine the hundreds and hundreds of volunteers looking for her in five counties from morning til night? Did you imagine the helicopters and planes flying over day after day? The TV and newspaper reporters? Did you imagine the thousands of flyers covering town after town in Kansas, Nebraska, and Missouri?

Did you imagine our pain? The horror and shock and disbelief that we have every minute of every day to this day, 38 days after you took her? Did you think about how hard it would be for us to have to do the things that have to be done, like going back to our jobs and doing laundry and fixing meals for the kids when all you want to do is just sit and cry and cry and cry? Did you imagine how our little kids would feel? What they would say? Everyday they say they miss her. They want her back. They don't understand why she's missing, because we don't tell them that people like you exist in this world. People who just take the life of an innocent woman as something that doesn't really matter. I mean, that's what you thought, right? Did you think nobody would miss her? Or look for her? Did you think nobody loved her? Oh...you were so wrong.

Are you human? What does it take to do what you did? What do you think about when you wake up and when you go to bed? Do you believe in God? DO YOU BELIEVE IN HELL?

When Taylor died, I said I would not wish that pain on my worst enemy. But I wish this pain for you. A LIFETIME of it. A lifetime of misery and regret. But I don't think you're capable of feeling those things. I think YOU live for YOU. And obviously, you do the devil's work.

Whoever you are, we will never stop looking. For her AND you. You will have a day of reckoning. Justice will be served. But you will NEVER EVER EVER know what you have taken from us...how much we love her and she loved us. The regret we have that we didn't keep her safe from you. How knowing the fear and pain that she must have felt will haunt us for the rest of our lives.

I pray for the Holy Spirit to burden your soul so deeply this night that you can't sleep. I hope you are haunted by her face and name and what you have done, so that sleep never comes. I hope that guilt and shame are poured out on you so heavily, that you choose to do ONE right thing and tell us where she is and what you know. God have mercy on your soul.
 
harleysmom said:
I don't think you should even give one more second to thinking that you might not be "making your mom proud". You kids have been absolutely remarkable through all of this. You have been a "point of light", pointing to CHRIST. You have taken what your mom taught you and LIVED IT. Alot of people talk the talk, but don't walk the walk. This "walk" has been tremendously hard, and I don't know if it will get harder or not...but I do know you won't be walking it alone. We will all be with you, but most importantly, JESUS will be with you, as he is with your mom right now, wherever she is. Whatever has happened, the light will be shone on it when the time is right, and your mom will be blessed by the way you honored her. God sends us friends and family to help us through these hard times, my old buddy used to call it "God with skin", when he was surrounded by prayer warriors and friends. We know God loves us, and is there for us, but the human touch can do so much when directed by the one who loves us the most...God. Hold on Kimmi kids, you are already the "victors" in this war, and you will prevail. Be Blessed, and sleep in peace tonight, we will be standing in prayer with our armor on.
Click to expand...

You make me ashamed for what I just posted, but I'm so miserable some days. I CANNOT understand how and why anyone planned this and thought it was ok, that it was somehow their "right" to do this. Like they thought she had to pay for something. I can't stand it. She did nothing to deserve this. It's so SENSELESS.

I don't feel far away from God, but I feel so far away from my Mom.
 
Rita, you will never be far away from your mom.

your rant at who did this? I JOIN IT ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!

Let us find who took your mother and why.

No matter what... if it takes time... we will be here for you. Sometimes things are not quick and sometimes they are downright slow... but we are still always here keeping the faith.

TES will be here soon and the search will be renewed. The snow has mostly melted and we have a bunch of sunny days ahead. I pray this will aid in finding Pat.

Rita, you hang in there girl. I am praying for you and your family! Every single day...
 
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