KY KY - Katie Gray, 10 months, West Paducah, 29 Nov 2004

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Poor baby.

I wonder if they did any inquiries to find out the brand of car seat and then strapped an appropriate size dummy into a duplicate seat and then did tests to see where the car seat would travel to? If they attached a fine line to retrieve it then dropped it from various places near that crossing they could find out if it would simply sink or if it would float and drift for a while. Of course if the creek isn't as strong or as high as it was that night then that might only be of limited help.

Either way something isn't right. A car seat is not going to decompose so it should still be able to be found somewhere, someway, somehow. My guess at this point is that they took her someplace in a totally oposite direction and the creek story was to guide the investigation away from where the body actually is.
 
Wednesday, April 26, 2006

NewsChannel Six has learned that Katie's parents Johnnie and Sandy Gray have reached a plea agreement.

The Gray's attorney, Mike Ward says Johnnie and Sandy plan on pleading guilty in court Friday.

Katie Gray disappeared more than a year ago when her parents say they accidentally dropped her into Massac Creek. The Gray's were arrested last November and charged with manslaughter.

Mike Ward says the agreement includes a guilty plea to a lesser charge of wreckless homicide, and five years in jail. This is a surprise because originally Ward said his clients had no intention of pleading guilty, he said they were going to trial. -

http://www.wpsdtv.com/articles/stories/public/200604/26/ppll_local_news.html

I was hoping for a full confession by way of plea agreement. It's not clear yet if that will be the case.
 
Just 5 years huh? Meanwhile they let Katie's body rot wherever they tossed it. I don't believe for a moment that they accidently dropped her into the river and I doubt LE does either.
 
Some interesting information in this May 1 article: Grays Plead Guilty to Reckless Homicide
By: Erica Byfield

Here’s the evidence the Commonwealth says could have held up in court against the Grays...First, both Sandy and Johnnie Gray lied to detectives at the beginning of the investigation. Second, the Grays were reckless in the care of Katie, by not notifying authorities of her disappearance until after one in the morning, when the incident happened around ten pm. I also learned each of the Grays did under go a polygraph test and quote "passed with flying colors."

Emery adds after the initial interviews the Grays started to tell a consistent story. "After we found out when this actually did occur after that they were consistent with me their interviews, they didn't change their story, they stayed the same," said Emery.

To prove it investigators did call in experts from across the country. And in the end Kaltenback, Emery and Coroner Dan Sims say it's "likely" Katie gray and her car seat ended up in the Ohio river, about 4 miles away from where she original fell into the water.

Their findings also state with the weather conditions that evening it could have taken somewhere between 44 (minutes) and almost two hours for the her and the car seat to reach the river, just about the time her parents reported her missing. Although they've yet to find Katie, Coroner Dan Sims says he won't stop searching.

The Grays will go before Judge Robert Hines on August 3rd at 1:30 PM for sentencing. If Judges Hines does not impose a stronger sentence they each face five years in jail. - http://www.kfvs12.com/Global/story.asp?S=4836237&nav=8H3x

Sounds as if at least some investigators are convinced that the car seat with Katie strapped into it went downstream Massac Creek, into the Ohio River.
 
Jeana (DP) said:
Too bad they won't be able to charge them with anything else when they find her little body.
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And here I thought you were a big believer in polygraphs!

IMO it will be miraculous if her body strapped into the car seat is found in the Ohio River.
 
I think they'll receive the maximum sentence, and will be out in half the time.

Baby Katie Gray's Parents to Be Sentenced Thursday
Wednesday, August 02, 2006

Nearly two years ago, Sandy and Johnnie Gray told police their SUV stalled in flooded Massac Creek. Johnnie Gray says his daughter, ten-month-old Katie, was swept away in the rushing water.

The Army Corps of Engineers says the night baby Katie's parents say they dropped her in Massac Creek, the water was moving eight feet per second, and Katie could have made it to the Ohio river very quickly.

Crews tirelessly searched the creek, by land using ATVs and cadaver dogs; by water using boats and dive teams. They even used heavy machinery to try and dig up answers, but no sign of Katie was ever found. --->>

Lead Detective, Tom Emery says he's heard all kinds of theories. But, he never could find any hard evidence to discount the Gray's story. "I couldn't find anything. They stuck with their story. All I can do is go by fact, not emotion." --->>

Johnnie and Sandy Gray were initially charged with manslaughter. Sandy faced up to twenty years in prison and Johnnie, fifteen. But, they took a deal and pleaded guilty to reckless homicide, a charge that carries up to five years in prison. --->>

http://www.wpsdtv.com/articles/stories/public/200608/02/BBKK_local_news.html
 
5 years is all a beautiful innocent little tiny life is worth now-a-days huh? :( I guess if its any consulation at least we know they will get life in HELL :furious:
 
LovelyPigeon said:
I think they'll receive the maximum sentence, and will be out in half the time.

Baby Katie Gray's Parents to Be Sentenced Thursday
Wednesday, August 02, 2006

Nearly two years ago, Sandy and Johnnie Gray told police their SUV stalled in flooded Massac Creek. Johnnie Gray says his daughter, ten-month-old Katie, was swept away in the rushing water.

The Army Corps of Engineers says the night baby Katie's parents say they dropped her in Massac Creek, the water was moving eight feet per second, and Katie could have made it to the Ohio river very quickly.

Crews tirelessly searched the creek, by land using ATVs and cadaver dogs; by water using boats and dive teams. They even used heavy machinery to try and dig up answers, but no sign of Katie was ever found. --->>

Lead Detective, Tom Emery says he's heard all kinds of theories. But, he never could find any hard evidence to discount the Gray's story. "I couldn't find anything. They stuck with their story. All I can do is go by fact, not emotion." --->>

Johnnie and Sandy Gray were initially charged with manslaughter. Sandy faced up to twenty years in prison and Johnnie, fifteen. But, they took a deal and pleaded guilty to reckless homicide, a charge that carries up to five years in prison. --->>

http://www.wpsdtv.com/articles/stories/public/200608/02/BBKK_local_news.html
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I really hate this. Why do these azzholes always offer plea deals so that people will plead guilty so there will be no TRIAL!!! There is no reason that anyone who murders another person regardless of the age should get a deal and serve a handful of years in prison. It just isn't right. I get so angry that I scare myself :sick: The punishment should fit the crime and there shouldn't be any darn "time off for good behavior" either. We wonder why our crime rate is so darn high...it's because people are just tapped on the hand and let go. Crime will never slow down until we stop pussy footing around with these criminals. Other countrys have strict laws and they don't have near the crime that we do. When are the darn big wigs going to GET IT!!! If we need more prisons to hold these animals for a longer period of time then build the darn things. It might help if they would build one prison for the perverts and house them all together...forever...on some island. Build one strictly for murderers and keep them all together. Make sure they serve ALL of their time and make it LONG sentences. It doesn't take a genius to figure some of this stuff out.
Sorry for the rant but dam this is just so wrong.
 
Didn't I read somewhere that the mother was pregnant again when she was arrested? Whatever happened with that????
Does anyone from the area where this crime happened know the parents at all? I have read the thread concerning how the river runs, etc. but I wonder what the parents are really like. I don't know what it is but something about the friends who turned the parents in just doesn't set well with me. I don't mean the friends are guilty but they just seem to have their own motives for coming forward. I just got a greasy feeling when I read about the friends.
 
I don't mean the friends are guilty but they just seem to have their own motives for coming forward. I just got a greasy feeling when I read about the friends.
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I think you could do better to reserve your greasy feelings for the parents. They are the ones who were using drugs and alcohol, who dropped Katie in the creek (or whatever else may have happened), who then failed to report that she was missing for several hours.

As soon as the Grays admitted to the friends that Katie was missing in the flooded creek waters, the friends called 911. The friends (or probably more accurately, former friends) have no involvement whatsoever with Katie missing.

I don't know anyone here who knows either of the Grays but I know some of the SAR and firefighters who were called out that night to search for Katie, and who continued to search for weeks.

Family members have been caring for the Grays' youngest child, born after Katie disappeared.
 
I can't imagine my baby falling into the water and my not being able to find her and my not screaming for LE right away. Personally I don't think that is what happened to Katy or if it was maybe the parents were so high that they didn't want any contact with LE until they came down.

The friends did the right thing by calling 911. I would have done the same exact thing. I would have been horrified to know that the baby had disappeared a long time before they came to my house and they hadn't called 911. I think I would have had a hard time beliving what I was hearing.

I wonder what really happened to sweet baby Katie? When people use drugs it is hard to tell what might have happened and they might not have even realized it at the time. Later they may have realized that the baby was dead and paniced and had to come up with a story...like her falling into the water.

Regardless, the value of that baby's life is way over 5 lousy years. What a darn shame. Will they get the child that was born after Katie died when they get out of prison?
 
Bobbisangel I agree with you I don't understand why someone who murders someone else has any rights at all. I feel that once you commit a crime so heinous you just forfeited all your rights. There is no plea deal no trial no nothing, its death penalty ...an eye for an eye!



Bobbisangel said:
I really hate this. Why do these azzholes always offer plea deals so that people will plead guilty so there will be no TRIAL!!! There is no reason that anyone who murders another person regardless of the age should get a deal and serve a handful of years in prison. It just isn't right. I get so angry that I scare myself :sick: The punishment should fit the crime and there shouldn't be any darn "time off for good behavior" either. We wonder why our crime rate is so darn high...it's because people are just tapped on the hand and let go. Crime will never slow down until we stop pussy footing around with these criminals. Other countrys have strict laws and they don't have near the crime that we do. When are the darn big wigs going to GET IT!!! If we need more prisons to hold these animals for a longer period of time then build the darn things. It might help if they would build one prison for the perverts and house them all together...forever...on some island. Build one strictly for murderers and keep them all together. Make sure they serve ALL of their time and make it LONG sentences. It doesn't take a genius to figure some of this stuff out.
Sorry for the rant but dam this is just so wrong.
Click to expand...
 
I don't understand why someone who murders someone else has any rights at all.
Click to expand...

There was no finding of murder in this case. There was no evidence except for the words of the parents. If you're a believer in polygraphs, you'll be interested to know that both parents 'passed' on their story of accidentally dropping Katie into the creek.

None of it spells justice for Katie, but the situation legally worked out in the only way possible it seems to me.
 
I didn't mean to sound as though I think the "friends" had any part in Katie's disappearance. I don't think they did at all. Just that they didn't strike me as reliable witnesses. The fact that the father passed his polygraph test makes me think he actually believes his own story. Whether that is because it is really the truth or because he was so high at the time of the "accident" that he can't recall what may have happened may never be known. But you are all right in that if one of my kids fell into a river, I would have gone hoarse screaming for help. Probably my husband would have stayed to search for the child as he is a much stronger swimmer than I am and I would have raced for the nearest phone/house for help. There is no way in hell we would have straggled our way to a friend's house to report the incident 3 hours later and then stopped for smokes, yada yada. Forget any further pregnancies because if I believed my child had died, I would have hung myself from the nearest tree. I just don't understand this case. Weird people, strange circumstances. I don't understand the lack of a body and carseat. A little tiny body that isn't found is one thing. But why can't they find the carseat. Let's just say the parents were sick of having a kid. They decide to fake an accident and drive out to the swollen creek with the intention of getting rid of their "wet blanket". They kill and bury the body on the land that is past the creek that belongs/belonged to a member of the family. Wouldn't they at least be smart enough to go drop the carseat into the creek to make their story believable? And if that is what happened, how come the carseat hasn't shown up? Even if it floated into the Ohio, wouldn't it have shown up by now? At least part of the material????
How old is their surviving child?
 
I'm not really sure where I stand on polygraphs. I think if you truely are in denial and make yourself believe something to be true then you can outsmart the polygraphs. There may have been no finding of murder but i'm sure these parents know exactly what happened to their baby and by the way they acted after the incident before the 911 call, it just screams guilty as sin to me.



LovelyPigeon said:
There was no finding of murder in this case. There was no evidence except for the words of the parents. If you're a believer in polygraphs, you'll be interested to know that both parents 'passed' on their story of accidentally dropping Katie into the creek.

None of it spells justice for Katie, but the situation legally worked out in the only way possible it seems to me.
Click to expand...
 
Even if it floated into the Ohio, wouldn't it have shown up by now? At least part of the material????
Click to expand...
The car seat wouldn't haven't floated. It would have tumbled on the bottom of the creek, pushed by the current. The corps of engineers believes a car seat with a child strapped in would have been rolled and tumbled downsteam and into the Ohio River in just a few minutes. Searchers, though, think that debris in the creek (tree limbs and trunks, etc) would have impeded the car seat and probably kept it from getting all the way downstream and into the river.

How old is their surviving child?
Click to expand...

Katie's mother, Sandy Gray, has a son now 19, by a previous marriage. The youngest child of Sandy and Johnnie Gray was born in mid-October 2005, so she'd be 10 months old now. She was placed in the care of child services after their arrest last November. I think she was subsequently placed with family of the Grays.

I had hoped that a plea agreement would result in a confession from the parents that Katie could be found elsewhere than the creek. That didn't happen, though. Local law enforcement seems to be divided on whether they believe the Grays have told the truth about what happened to Katie, or whether they've continued to conceal the truth.
 
Board turns down parole for missing infant's mother
The mother of an infant swept away in a creek in 2004 has been denied parole and ordered to serve the rest of her sentence.

The Kentucky Parole Board, without a hearing on Friday, turned down Sandy Gray's request for early release from a five-year prison sentence.

Ten-month-old Katie Gray was swept away after the family drove across Massac Creek, which was swollen due to heavy rains on Nov. 29, 2004. Katie's body has never been found.

Sandy Gray and her husband, Johnnie, pleaded guilty in April to reckless homicide, possession of marijuana, tampering with physical evidence and leaving the scene of an accident.

Johnnie Gray told investigators he lost his grip on Katie's car seat while removing her from the vehicle stalled in the creek. He is eligible for parole next month. -
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070128/NEWS01/701280489/1008/NEWS01
 
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