Identified! KY - Simpson Co, WhtFem UP71, 25-35, off I-65, rose tattoo, Oct'01 - Dawn Clare Plonsky Wilkerson

DNA Solves
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DNA Solves
looking at the smiling face pics, Appleton had most, if not all her teeth. in order for her to be the UID, she would have had to have lost 17 teeth in a 2 yr period which is not too likely.

Maybe. Except we don't know which pictures of her are more recent than others, or how much time passed between the most recent picture, and her disappearance.

Also, I don't know if a person had a serious drug problem, which drugs would be likely to contribute most to dental problems and how long it would take for that to occur. Maybe someone else here does?
 
Maybe. Except we don't know which pictures of her are more recent than others, or how much time passed between the most recent picture, and her disappearance.

Also, I don't know if a person had a serious drug problem, which drugs would be likely to contribute most to dental problems and how long it would take for that to occur. Maybe someone else here does?

Meth is truly a very scary drug. The before and after pictures are shocking. In one year...a person can look very different. Sores on the face and nasty or missing teeth are usually good signs.
 
EDIT -- I thought I had refreshed my browser before posting this, but I guess I didn't; I didn't see that webrocket and others beat me to it. Oh well. <shrug>

It's not my intent to discourage anyone from submitting potential matches to law enforcement. If it's more work for them, so what? &#8211; after all, we pay their salaries. ;)

NAMUS lists Jennifer Wilson's DNA testing as being in progress but not yet complete; for Appleton, it says that the tests are complete. It also lists Simpson County Jane Doe (SCJD) as having mitochondrial DNA available, so it seems there's an easy comparison to be made in both cases. And in the odd chance that LE hasn't collected the proper samples already, Appleton has children, and Wilson's mother (at least as of a few years ago) was living, so there are sources for mtDNA tests right there.

(On a side note, SCJD does not list nucDNA as being recovered from SCJD. She was lying dead, out in the open, for at most a few weeks. And her remains are described as &#8220;partially&#8221; skeletonized, which I guess means there was some soft tissue left &#8211; well, obviously there was, there's a photo of her tattoo. Yet they didn't get chromosomal DNA from her. Does that strike anyone else as odd?)

I agree, there's a strong resemblance between those two photos of Appleton and SCJD. But when I look at other photos of her on her Charley Project page &#8230;

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/a/appleton_monica.html

&#8230; I see something else. Her smile. Such a lovely smile. Which puts me right back to the same concern I have about Jennifer Wilson.

If Monica Appleton (or Jennifer Wilson) is SCJD, how did her teeth get so bad over such a short period of time?

Please, follow along here, and if anything I say seems wrong or unreasonable please point it out to me, because this is the main thing I'm &#8220;stuck on&#8221; about SCJD and just can't get past. And for the record, I'm not a dentist, and I'm not claiming any specialized knowledge. (Are there any dentists who are members here?)

SCJD had lousy teeth. And they showed every sign of long-term neglect. Here's an abbreviated version of the information from NAMUS, just to show which teeth were still present, either intact or filled(&#8220;O&#8221;s); which were present and decayed (&#8220;X&#8221;s); and which were missing (&#8220;-&#8221;s):


(upper right) -X-X-O-OOXX-O-O- (upper left)
(lower right) -&#8211;O-OO----OOO--- (lower left)


That's right &#8211; all four of her most prominent lower teeth, the ones that would have showed when she opened her mouth, were missing. Her ability to chew food was limited, since she only had three pairs of opposing teeth left, none of which were molars &#8211; bicuspid pairs on both sides, and on the left side a canine pair with one decayed tooth.

And in case there's any doubt, here are photographs of SCJD's upper and lower jaw. (Yes, they're &#8220;dead person&#8221; pictures. But there's no soft tissue, only bone and teeth &#8211; no worse to look at than the skull in your old high school biology lab):

Upper jaw: https://identifyus.org/en/medias/full/7254
Lower jaw: https://identifyus.org/en/medias/full/7253

Take a look at those, and notice how many of the tooth sockets have completely healed. Those four front lower teeth? There aren't any sockets at all where they should be &#8211; they're completely healed over. And while there are a few open sockets here and there (some of her teeth were found separated from her jaws at the scene, and weren't replaced for these photos), look at how many places in both jaws where there should be teeth but don't even have sockets.

Now, I found three different sources on the Internet, dental web sites, all of which said &#8220;six months for a bone socket to heal after a tooth extraction.&#8221; So it seems to me that at the very latest, SCJD would have lost most of her teeth by April 2001. But that's when she lost the teeth altogether. If someone has healthy teeth but stops taking care of them, how long does it take to lose them? Months, at the very least, I'd think. If nothing else, modern fluoridated drinking water would slow down the process. Even with the fabled &#8220;meth mouth,&#8221; from what I gather, one has to be an intense and frequent user for it to happen that quickly.

And there's something else. How accurate sites like The Doe Network and Charley are is, I suppose, debatable &#8230; but Doe mentions &#8220;severe bilateral degeneration of TMJ&#8221; &#8211; that is, her jaw joints were severely worn out and/or misaligned.

http://doenetwork.org/cases/111ufky.html

Now, I've got mild TMJ on one side. Most of the time, it's just an annoyance. It's never been enough of a problem to be worth treating; I'm in my late forties and have had it for decades. But occasionally it hurts &#8211; and when it hurts, it hurts. I'd have to think that someone with severe TMJ problems on both sides would be in chronic pain. I'd also have to think that severe degeneration wouldn't develop quickly but would take years &#8211; meaning that pain would have been going on for years.

So I'm having a hard time believing that SCJD could be anyone who was living a reasonably normal life within a few years of 2001. Using Monica Appleton as an example to illustrate the point &#8211; Charley shows several pics of her, captioned &#8220;circa 1999,&#8221; and while she may have used drugs she looks healthy enough here &#8211; well fed, good skin, healthy hair, no bizarre facial expressions, etc. (And what sort of drug use isn't specified. For all we know, she might have only taken the occasional bong hit with friends &#8211; if that's the case, so what?) It sounds from that page like she was determined to do right by her children, which sounds to me like whatever else was going on in her life, she had her head on at least sorta straight. Even if her financial circumstances were less-than-ideal, there are free medical and dental clinics. So if she had that long-standing and painful TMJ, why did she never get it treated? Drug use aside, she looks as if she took reasonably good care of herself &#8211; what would cause her to suddenly change into a person who so markedly neglects herself? And if she was on the run, in hiding, believing that she needed to keep her wits around her, that would seem to be an odd time to take on a meth habit.

I can only think of two classes of possibilities for SCJD. On the one hand, she could be someone who had a very hard life for a long time &#8211; maybe a teenage runaway who became a crack-addicted streetwalker &#8211; and who in death showed signs of moderately sub-standard self-care over a very long term. The other class of possibilities would involve someone who was severely self-neglectful over a shorter term &#8211; and here the only explanation I can come up with is some sort of psychiatric problem. (As an example &#8211; the chess champion Bobby Fischer, a brilliant man who had some serious &#8220;problems,&#8221; refused dental care because he believed his enemies would implant tiny transmitters in his fillings to force thoughts into his brain; but even he brushed his teeth regularly.) Maybe a seemingly normal person might have a sudden severe breakdown, go into hiding, and experience this sort of deterioration &#8230; but could such a person keep enough presence of mind to even stay alive for very long?

Well, I've talked enough. And again, if any of you think I'm getting anything wrong, please set me straight. :)
 
Something to consider when it comes to teeth...
I am a business woman and work in an office everyday. I have insurance, money in savings and a whole gaggle of kids. I have fillings in almost every single one of my teeth. I got pregnant with twins when I was 20 and was so sick that I couldn't eat for months. The lack of nutrition has caused my teeth to be very bad. I had proper dental care my entire life. I currently have a tooth that has a bad cavity and is cracked. I spend most of my time off work taking the kids to the dentist/doctor and am having a hard time making it to the dentist to get this work done. I also have several small cavities on the same side that need to be filled. I have to find 3 hours of time to go to get my mouth fixed....not easy!

I'm going to play devil's advocate here...
So, if someone found my jaw in a field today, what might you think? What if I had lost my bottom 4 teeth in an accident years ago and wore dentures, but my dentures weren't with my jaw? So, I have multiple carries and am missing teeth. What I'm saying here is that...yucky teeth don't always mean poverty and drugs. I've seen plenty of well-to-do people with nasty, yucky teeth...mainly because they are scared of the dentist.

I appreciate your thoughts on this, and how it may or may not be the case with this UID.

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Maybe. Except we don't know which pictures of her are more recent than others, or how much time passed between the most recent picture, and her disappearance.

Also, I don't know if a person had a serious drug problem, which drugs would be likely to contribute most to dental problems and how long it would take for that to occur. Maybe someone else here does?

Meth can rot your teeth in less than a year depending on how you ingest it and how much you do. I believe that smoking it causes your teeth to rot faster because it sticks to the base of your teeth right at the gumline. Meth mouth is very obvious and disgusting.

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I'm going to play devil's advocate here...

Thank you; I'm new at this. :) And let me say that any criticism I give of others' ideas is offered in the same &#8220;devil's advocate&#8221; spirit; if SCJD does turn out to be Appleton or Wilson, I'll happily raise a cup of grog to you both.

What I'm saying here is that...yucky teeth don't always mean poverty and drugs. I've seen plenty of well-to-do people with nasty, yucky teeth...mainly because they are scared of the dentist.

Agreed. Personally, I hate the drill. I still think it would be very unlikely for a healthy person with good teeth to deteriorate all the way to SCJD's state in a short period of time, but you make a great point &#8211; a &#8220;reasonably normal lifestyle&#8221; (I think that's what I said) doesn't necessarily mean good teeth. A person who already had poor teeth would have less of a way to go to get to SCJD's state.

So, if someone found my jaw [with its dental problems] in a field today, what might you think? What if I had lost my bottom 4 teeth in an accident years ago and wore dentures, but my dentures weren't with my jaw? So, I have multiple carries and am missing teeth.

In general, I agree with what you're making, but here's why I'm skeptical of dentures in SCJD's case. Now, I admit extreme ignorance about dentures &#8211; I've never worn them, and I can't even recall ever giving anyone else's more than a passing glance, with the exception of a Google image search I just did. So I might be completely wrong about this, but anyway &#8211;

Suppose you had SCJD's teeth and got that partial, four tooth denture? Well, now you could bite your food. But you'd have a hard time chewing it. You still would have to use your bicuspids to grind your food, having no opposing molars. To have a good set of chompers, the kind that would help you enjoy a nice steak, you'd need to fix your back teeth.

That would mean either partial dentures, to replace the missing teeth while leaving the existing ones intact; or removing the remaining teeth and going for a set of full dentures. If SCJD ever had dentures, and if her teeth were anywhere near as bad at that time as they were at the time of her death, I've gotta wonder if it wouldn't be easier on both the patient and the dentist to just pull the few remaining teeth and go with a full set. Dentures for SCJD (as she was at the time of her death) would have quite a few gaps to accommodate the remaining real teeth &#8211; a false tooth, then a gap for a real tooth, then a false tooth, then another gap, etc. I've seen partials that have blocks of several teeth together and large gaps, for example, false molars on both sides with a gap for remaining front teeth. But I haven't seen anything like what it seems to me would be necessary to give SCJD a full set of teeth while leaving her natural teeth intact. If SCJD had dentures, I wonder if she would have had even fewer teeth than she did, with some of her natural teeth having been removed as &#8220;in the way.&#8221;
 
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing....and I am not a dentist at all, I hate going to the dentist...and I even have dental insurance. Don't think I've been in 3 or 4 years.

I do know that most dentist like to leave a few real teeth in somebody's mouth if they can. Usually they prefer some bottom real teeth. The reason for that......the jaw kind of has a caved in look around the mouth if ALL the teeth are gone.

If you notice older people that have full dentures....you can usually tell. Younger people, dentist like to leave a few real teeth in. It's harder to tell. And yes, they will do gaps between denture plates (my hubby has gaps and he was only 32 when he had most of
his pulled)

BUT I do agree with you......I can't see lots of denture plates with tons of gaps in between. That would be way to expensive to do. Most dentist would probably only keep some of the close together teeth on the bottom.
 
I'm no dentist so anything I say on the subject is purely a layperson's perspective.

in most cases a picture of a skull, etc, does not do anything for me. Carl uses them to make his own reconstructions but personally I don't get much from viewing a skull. the jaw on the other hand for this case is very telling. I believe they posted the pic of the jaw to show just how bad the teeth where and that is something that a person could possibly recognize from looking at the jaw.

personally while I do not have perfect teeth, I cringe when I see people with missing teeth and a lone tooth standing there like Little House on the Prairie. that is the sort of reaction I think the Doe would have received in life (unless of course she traveled in edentulous circles) so that's why they put the pics up.

the facial resemblance to Appleton is definitely there. on the dentals, however, I honestly don't think that many teeth vanished in a short period of time.

as with any of these things, stranger things have happened.
 
Well count all that reading among the information that I never really thought I'd need in my life - yet suprisingly, here I am :) After reading all of that, I would categorize this potential match as "not impossible, but unlikely."
 
Thanks for all of the info on dentals. I agree with all of you. I think you're right about the photos being displayed to show just how bad they were. Can't they tell if someone was a denture wearer by the gum erosion? That would be good to know in this case.

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Can't they tell if someone was a denture wearer by the gum erosion? That would be good to know in this case.

The KY state police seem to have taken a renewed interest in this case over the past few months. I've got a few questions and am going to email the detective handling the case. That's a great question, and unless you have an objection I can add it to my list.

The photos we've seen are obviously after the bones and teeth were cleaned of soft tissue -- there might have been enough of her gums left to make some judgment about this. Also, maybe they could tell just from the skull -- bones aren't static objects but living things, and can grow in distinctive ways to accommodate unusual stresses.

Here's the relevant excerpt from my draft of the email, with the denture question included. I'll wait a day or so for others to comment before sending this.

Of course, Jane Doe has long since been interred or cremated, but I believe there are questions which could be answered from photographs and/or X-rays alone, and which would be useful in identifying her. I realize that some of these questions may not be answerable to a reasonable certainty. But can any sort of meaningful inference be drawn on these questions, even if only to a &#8220;probably (not)&#8221; level of likelihood?

From the clay reconstructions:

1) Did she wear glasses? (The depictions of her include one of her wearing glasses, and I have to believe that the reconstruction artists did not act arbitrarily in choosing to represent her that way. However, neither NAMUS nor KSP mention any eyewear found at the scene, and neither give any facts to imply that she wore glasses.)

Bearing in mind that all or nearly all of her skeleton was recovered:

2) Can her shoe size be estimated?

3) Was she ever pregnant? If so did she give birth via vaginal delivery? Caesarean section? (I'm no physician, but there's some widening of a woman's pelvis associated with pregnancy, isn't there?)

4) NAMUS and KSP both report she had a healed fracture of the proximal right humerus -- but did she also have a healed fracture of the left 8th rib? (NAMUS says she did, KSP does not mention this.)

5) Can the time before death when her fracture(s) occurred be estimated?

6) Would her fracture(s) have caused any sort of permanent aftereffects &#8211; e.g., limited mobility in her shoulder?

Regarding her teeth, dental care, etc:

7) Did she wear dentures?

8) Did she have effects of poor dental care beyond tooth decay and loss? Specifically, I'm thinking of abscesses which might have been severe enough to cause visible facial swelling, but there may be other effects.

Unfortunately, information is distorted as it's passed around the Internet, and there's some conflicting information out there, so:

9) Did she have some sort of TMJ (temporomandibular joint) disorder? (I've seen some web sites that state that she did, but none are official sources.)

10) Did she have chronic back pain? (I've seen some web sites that state that she did, but none are official sources.)

If anyone would like to suggest additional questions, please do so ... or if you think some of these questions are not useful, please let me know that too. Also, for those of you who have more experience dealing with LE on these things, do you think I'm asking for too much at once?

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Sent from my scuzzy laptop using old-fashioned hunt-'n-peck typing. :rocker:
 
phubbard, I agree with your thinking about this woman. I have no idea how many questions about her would be entertained by the ME or LE, but they do seem invested in identifying her.
I don't know how to post the picture but I found the blue enameled ring at this link, a vintage jewelry site in Florida. Fifth ring down, perhaps it belonged to her mother or grandmother.
http://www.eclecticala.com/enamel_roses/enamelrose.htm
 
Who is this lady?

she relates back to the prior link and she is Doreen Marfeo.

I see the facial resemblance however Doreen would have been 10 yrs older than the upper estimate of the UID (we've seen that before so it is not a deal breaker). of bigger concern, if you look at Doreen's Charley Project page, many believe her husband murdered her back in 1990:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/marfeo_doreen.html
 
Here's a new addtion to NamUs.

Diana Renee Smith
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/22771/0

Aside from the 10-year timeframe, she fits quite closely to the parameters for UP 71, including:

* Similar Tattoo description (Black rose on breast)
* Consistent Height (65"-66")
* Consistent Age (About 30 at time of Jane Doe's death)
* Caught rides with truckers - consistent with roadside location of Jane Doe's body.
* wore multiple rings on fingers - Jane Doe wore two rings.


0c5e9023-0e5e-4877-88a6-c929d48bdae0.jpg




And if she had been on the road for 10 years, that might explain the poor dentition.

Here's the Jane Doe's UP casefile.
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/71
 

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