Kyron Horman Discussion Thread 2020 - 2022 - #2

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Respectfully disagree. I know I've read coherent theories on these very threads in the past. There are plenty of theories of what may have happened that fit the timeline, IMO.

Also it is possible that people do things you wouldn't believe someone would do. (Gannon Stauch's case comes to mind.)

Perhaps that was a bit harsh. But the theories I've read, even here, have been very contrived, internally contradictory or glossing over important facts. If you know of some persuasive ones, I'd be happy to have them pointed out - I'm always open to changing my mind.
 
Respectfully disagree. I know I've read coherent theories on these very threads in the past. There are plenty of theories of what may have happened that fit the timeline, IMO.

Also it is possible that people do things you wouldn't believe someone would do. (Gannon Stauch's case comes to mind.)
Except in Terri’s case she has friends and family that she still maintains relationships with that support her. It’s really unfortunate that LE didn’t put a stop to all the rumors. While I understand it’s an ongoing investigation and they can’t comment they could have quashed some of the rumors that continue to this day. Just recently Kaine said in an interview with Nancy Grace that much of what has been said was only second hand information. Yet it’s out there as the gospel. And if Terri is guilty, unless she admits to it she is never going to see a day in court. This case has been so damaged by a book, one sided media reporting and all the stalking her family and friends have endured over the years that no one of authority told them to stop. If the DA couldn’t get one of many Grand Juries who heard all the other details we have not to indict her, the chances are slim to none they ever will.
 
I wonder if there is a lonely, isolated place, beneath a canopy of fir, hemlock, and maple, and a further layer of thimble berry, fern and trillium; maybe down a ravine, even beside a little stream; a place that witnessed a horror all those years ago.

Hidden then, and even more so now, but still alive with plants and animals that witnessed death.

The sounds of jays and thrush and owls, a trout jumping in the stream, squirrels and chickadees and woodpeckers.

Seemingly bucolic and innocent, but there was violence and death that day.

There are predators there. Eagles, bobcats, coyotes and bear.

But the predator that day was human. Terry Horman Vasquez and DDS were the dangerous, merciless predators disturbing the forest that day. And Kyron Horman was the victim, now abandoned and alone.
 
<modsnip - off topic>

I would love to see something new break on this case. We have a very well known missing child case in my state (I'm not in Oregon) and it, too, has been dormant for 30 years as far as the child's remains never being found (despite a man in prison for killing her).

Not much of a forum user these days, but thought I'd just poke at this thread to see if anyone has heard anything (factually) new.
 
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" When Terri spoke privately with police, they told her she failed two polygraph tests. Although a judge and a lawyer for Terri have called her a suspect in court papers, she has never officially been named a suspect or person of interest by police. "

imo moo omo

Wondering if the wording should be: Terri is the TARGET of the investigation...

This news information was a year ago.
It sounds like a planned murder. Including knock-out-meds. Just incredible.


Now 14 years later. We still believe arrests will be made. The civil lawsuit ( if possible) could also help bring JUSTICE4KYRON.

Heartprints to his true justice seekers, friends and family.
 
" When Terri spoke privately with police, they told her she failed two polygraph tests. Although a judge and a lawyer for Terri have called her a suspect in court papers, she has never officially been named a suspect or person of interest by police. "

imo moo omo

Wondering if the wording should be: Terri is the TARGET of the investigation...

This news information was a year ago.
It sounds like a planned murder. Including knock-out-meds. Just incredible.


Now 14 years later. We still believe arrests will be made. The civil lawsuit ( if possible) could also help bring JUSTICE4KYRON.

Heartprints to his true justice seekers, friends and family.

I know this sounds crazy..but I know someone who grew up in Portland, they know it like the back of their hand like they know it blindfolded....I feel like someone who is very intuitive should go around, maybe with a Cadaver dog..go around that area where she was driving and intuitively find places where one might turn in to find a hiding place. perhaps the wooded areas, logging areas are not where she went with Kyron, perhaps he is in the water weighted down in a container... lots of estuaries and little rivers, etc. This was a financially motivated murder as she wanted no outside heirs to her husband's money. I feel like they need to go back to all the clues and re read all her statements, writings and emails to parse out possible "tells"..I wish they could arrest her and get a search warrant for all of her belongings.

could Terri have a storage unit somewhere?

I am convinced her husband would have been the next to go missing....or found dead from " suicide" .

time to reopen it and charge Terri. mOO
 
I was reading an interesting post in another forum. In Kaine’s recent interview with Nancy Grace he mentions he’s also gotten secondhand information that people saw Kyron get into a car not the truck with Terri. Is it possible these are the sworn statements of witnesses that Terri’s lawyer has? The only way Kaine would have been told this is from LE who had interviewed witnesses. JMO
 
I was reading an interesting post in another forum. In Kaine’s recent interview with Nancy Grace he mentions he’s also gotten secondhand information that people saw Kyron get into a car not the truck with Terri. Is it possible these are the sworn statements of witnesses that Terri’s lawyer has? The only way Kaine would have been told this is from LE who had interviewed witnesses. JMO
I'd sure like a description of the car, people he was with, and what the police found out about it.
 
Second hand information could be gossip, social media, made-up information, read, overheard, heard from a 3rd or 4th or 5th party, not new, passed down through multiple people, speculation, assumption, etc. "My grandma's cousin's neighbor's barber's doctor's friend said.."

How second hand information is defined as statements from sworn witnesses is puzzling to me.

But ask Terri Horman Vasquez, she has the answer to these questions. She has first hand information about what happened to Kyron, because she was there.
 
Second hand information could be gossip, social media, made-up information, read, overheard, heard from a 3rd or 4th or 5th party, not new, passed down through multiple people, speculation, assumption, etc. "My grandma's cousin's neighbor's barber's doctor's friend said.."

How second hand information is defined as statements from sworn witnesses is puzzling to me.

I agree. What Kaine describes is pretty clearly gossip or other unconfirmed information. Which is why it is interesting that he describes Desiree's claim that multiple people saw Kyron leave with Terri in the exact same way. Bear in mind, Desiree made the claim many years after the fact that it had been the police who told them about the witnesses back in 2010, despite the clear discrepancy with statements and actions from police, Kaine and even herself (before 2015). This now appears to be untrue.

So the oft spread factoid that Kyron's classmate and the bus driver saw Kyron leave with Terri shouldn't be treated as anything more that gossip.

But ask Terri Horman Vasquez, she has the answer to these questions. She has first hand information about what happened to Kyron, because she was there.

I don't think that's a claim that can be made with certainty. If Terri left at 8:45 and Kyron was taken from the school after that, how could she possibly know how he was taken? She wasn't there.
 
Right, it goes like this, for those who are not familiar with the pattern of many years. Desiree, who has the most information and just won't be quiet about it, must be continually discredited.

Terri tells the truth. Desiree does not.
You can trust Terri. You can't trust Desiree.
Everything Terri says is factual. Desiree is delusional.
Believe Terri. Desiree is mistaken, wrong, mixed up.
If only Desiree would just give up, Terri could stop worrying and relax. But Desiree keeps on and on, telling the truth, maligning poor Terri. If Desiree would just shut up and curl up and disappear. Stop talking about Kyron and reminding everyone that Terri Horman Vasquez is responsible for Kyron being gone.

That's the pattern and history that has gone on for over a decade. But you keep on, Desiree, keep on telling the truth. Because you have the truth on your side. Terri just has lies and manipulation.
 
Right, it goes like this, for those who are not familiar with the pattern of many years. Desiree, who has the most information and just won't be quiet about it, must be continually discredited.

Terri tells the truth. Desiree does not.
You can trust Terri. You can't trust Desiree.
Everything Terri says is factual. Desiree is delusional.

But this isn't Desiree Vs Terri. It's Desiree Vs Kaine. Desiree made a weak, unlikely claim and said it was something factual the police had told her and Kaine. Kaine, on the other hand, said that same claim was gossip on the same level as other gossip.

This isn't the first time Kaine and Desiree made divergent claims. Desiree claimed the emails from Terri she and Kaine were shown by the police said that Terri hated Kyron. Kaine disagreed with that - he hasn't seen any such emails.

This isn't just some unimportant discrepancy,. Desiree has spread her claim far and wide as fact. If it isn't, if it's just gossip as Kaine claims, there are other possibilities for how Kyron left the school and who took him. Possible sightings that are discounted because Desiree's statements are taken as fact.

Personally I'm less interested in taking sides between Terri and Desiree. I'm interested in finding out what happened to Kyron.
 
Discrediting the parents, who know much much more about what happened than the public.
Desiree's claims are "weak and unlikely." But Terri has never said anything weak, unlikely, false, delusional, mixed up, or ever outright lied.

We would know what happened to Kyron if Terri Horman Vasquez would just tell us.
 
Discrediting the parents, who know much much more about what happened than the public.

The parents are in blatant disagreement. Which one do we believe in the case of the witnesses-saw-Terri-leave-with-Kyron issue? If we believe one, we're discrediting the other. Kaine or Desiree?

Desiree's claims are "weak and unlikely." But Terri has never said anything weak, unlikely, false, delusional, mixed up, or ever outright lied.

She probably has. She's human, like the rest of them. Though the only lie I've been able to confirm is when she told a gaggle of reporters right after Kaine left with her child that everything was "fine".

And I don't think there's a human on the planet who has never told a lie like that

We would know what happened to Kyron if Terri Horman Vasquez would just tell us.

We would know what happened to Kyron Horman if the MCSO and the MCDA swallowed their pride, admitted they were wrong, and handed the case over to the FBI.

If we're stating beliefs as facts, that is.
 
By August 3, 2010, the media reported law enforcement had received approximately 3,500 tips from individuals in the first two months of the investigation. These tips may have contained information that Kyron was seen in many makes, models, and colors of vehicles. At various times. In various locations. With Terri and without Terri. Once in the possession of law enforcement, these tips are not shared with the family. Law enforcement only shares vetted information they believe is pertinent to the victim’s case. The victim's family has to sue to receive disclosure of the tips—Jennifer Kesse’s family did but settled out of court. I believe Tim Miller sued for his daughter’s case file and also Maura Murary’s family sued. Each family had varying degrees of success, if any. It is a tough, expensive battle.

Neither law enforcement nor Kaine would have seen “information” in Houze’s possession. Unfortunately, she hasn’t been charged to date. Discovery in Kyron’s case hasn’t changed hands. Considering the amount of Houze's retainer, I would not expect he would reveal his hand early. He did a little “grandstanding” in divorce court trying to win her visitation rights with her daughter but he was not successful.

Kaine may have been approached directly by people wanting to help who told him they believed they saw Kyron getting into a vehicle in the parking lot. All he could do was take their information and pass it on to law enforcement. This would be “firsthand” information to Kaine and he would have no idea if it was true. Kaine may also have been referring to information he received early on from Terri as “firsthand” information. Once she retained Houze on or about July 26, 2010, Houze would have advised her not to speak to Kaine, law enforcement, the media, or anyone else. Until the divorce was finalized, we heard a fair amount from Kaine. I didn’t get the impression he believed what “Kyron’s stepmother” had been telling him.

Alternatively, people may have approached Kaine with information they had received from someone else. This would be second-hand information. Law enforcement would handle any investigation into the information. Kaine would not be a party to the verification or outcome.

The article below contains an example of a tip that was well intended. Mr. McCain, who received the tip directly, might say he had firsthand knowledge of the tip.

Snipped Quote: [August 3rd, 2010] Investigators in the case of missing 7-year-old Kyron Horman say they’ve sorted through more than 3,500 tips in the nearly two-month investigation.
This morning around 9:00 am I received a telephone call from [MD], a [snipped by me] farmer [snipped by me]. … When I took his call he expressed relief in “finally talking to a human” after leaving unanswered calls to the MCSO tip line. I told him I no longer worked at MCSO and I am not part of the investigation at all. He understood that but asked me to pass this info along to the authorities.
…I told him I would pass his story on to someone I knew “high up” in the investigation. But I also told him that one reason why he might not have received a call back is that investigators knew where Terri and the pickup were around 12 noon on Wednesday, June 9.

UPDATE: Lt. Mary Lindstrand, spokeswoman for the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office, says a detective from an outside agency followed up on the tip “some time ago” and determined it wasn’t relevant to the investigation.
Kyron Horman Update: One Tipster's Startling Suspicions, and Frustration (Updated with Comment from MCSO) | Willamette Week | Thursday, August 5th, 2010

Also, there is the “mystery man” aka “flannel shirt guy” spotted in the last image of Kyron in front of his science fair project on the day he disappeared. This man was ruled out by law enforcement very early on in the investigation but his identity was pursued by bloggers for years.

Snipped Quote: [Around 25th of June, 2010] The Multnomah County Sheriff’s office said it knows who the mysterious man is in the background of the picture of Kyron Horman standing in front of his Tree Frog display.
He has been interviewed but is not a person of interest in the case.
His name will not be released and the Sheriff’s office will not say if he is a parent or teacher.
The picture and that man in the back of room became a hot topic of conversation after Portland Mayor Sam Adams sent out this alert to the public asking for help in identifying the man:
Do you recognize the man in this photo (2nd photo down in the story)?

Kyron's mom: 'He doesn't like to wander off'

 
Second hand information could be gossip, social media, made-up information, read, overheard, heard from a 3rd or 4th or 5th party, not new, passed down through multiple people, speculation, assumption, etc. "My grandma's cousin's neighbor's barber's doctor's friend said.."

How second hand information is defined as statements from sworn witnesses is puzzling to me.

But ask Terri Horman Vasquez, she has the answer to these questions. She has first hand information about what happened to Kyron, because she was there.
The second hand information is coming from LE. Kaine did not partake in interviewing witnesses. If it wasn’t a possibility there would be no reason at all for him to even mention it at all on Nancy Grace.
 
Snipped quote: [February 10, 2011] Kaine held a press conference late Monday morning. He said he could not comment specifically on anything Desiree said during the Today Show, because he did not watch the interview. But he did confirm that he got the same information about Terri's emails from police on Friday as Desiree.
Desiree: Terri hated Kyron, blamed him for failing marriage

[Pg 395] Kaine defended himself. “I haven’t seen any emails, so hearing that—that’s a little bit of a shock to me,” Kaine said. Desiree didn’t press the point—Kaine had seen the emails, and had even helped investigators gather them. It was Kaine who had shown them to Desiree.
“Boy Missing—The Search For Kyron Horman” by Rebecca Morris
 

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