Kyron Horman's general discussion thread for 2014

[greenpalm]

Do you think Terri will win some visitation or even joint custody after June? I think it's going to be very difficult for her not to get at least visitation given that she's never even been charged with a crime. Perhaps supervised visitation?

What's the current expert opinion on this now that we know that Sanchez's testimony will be permitted without cross examination, but that it's to be given "very little weight?"

What does it all boil down to?

 

[greenpalm]

Can Kaine's attorneys argue that it would be disruptive and cruel to allow visitation with Terri with pending charges now, knowing she could be whisked off to jail at any moment? Probably not.

I'm just thinking it would add to their logic though. What I mean is the child probably doesn't know her mother now, after not seeing her for 3+ years. If she were to be allowed some limited visitation beginning now, and start to form a relationship with her under supervised visits, for example, it almost seems more cruel, because when the right evidence finally falls into place, Terri is only going to be ripped from baby K's life again when she is arrested for disappearing Kyron. So, to me it seems cruel to even start what can't continue.

That's ten parts overconfidence and ninety parts wishful thinking, for the record. :-D in case you can't tell I'm being kind of half silly, but I do mean to make a point.

:Moo:

 

[gitana1]

Hi guys. I was asked to weigh in awhile ago, but forgot. It appears to me that TH's attorneys may cross the guy on his conversation with TH at the restaurant, but not on his overall participation in a sting operation. Thus, any evidence presented about a sting operation, will be given little to know weight as TH cannot cross him about THAT.

Make sense?

 

[MyBelle]

Hi guys. I was asked to weigh in awhile ago, but forgot. It appears to me that TH's attorneys may cross the guy on his conversation with TH at the restaurant, but not on his overall participation in a sting operation. Thus, any evidence presented about a sting operation, will be given little to know weight as TH cannot cross him about THAT.

Make sense?

Yes it makes perfect sense. Thanks. I wonder if Kaine's attorney might regret bringing the landscaper into the child custody proceeding at all. I think he's already said in his deposition that Terri told him at the restaurant that Kaine was abusive to her. And Desiree also accused Kaine of abuse and obtained a restraining order.

http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-12134-troubled_family.html

What hasn’t been made public is the fact that, a month after filing for divorce, Young sought a restraining order against Kaine Horman, Kyron’s dad.

At the time, she had a 7-year-old son from a previous marriage. In court documents, Young said she feared Kaine Horman would “remove our children from their residence.”

 

[Donjeta]

Is there a link to something saying that Desiree accused Kaine of being abusive to her?

Getting a restraining order because you're afraid that your ex might remove the children from the residence is a bit different accusation imo.

 

[AnaTeresa]

Is there a link to something saying that Desiree accused Kaine of being abusive to her?

Getting a restraining order because you're afraid that your ex might remove the children from the residence is a bit different accusation imo.

I remember when the case was hot hearing about that allegation. I tried google, but wasn't able to find any articles covering it. But it did come up in the discussion threads at the time, although it will take some time to go through those.

 

[AnaTeresa]

I've tried searching the forums, but while recent threads will come up, the original discussion threads aren't coming up, maybe because they're so old? I will keep looking.

 

[MyBelle]

Is there a link to something saying that Desiree accused Kaine of being abusive to her?

Getting a restraining order because you're afraid that your ex might remove the children from the residence is a bit different accusation imo.

A Judge did issue a restraining order. I think most would consider emotional fear as a form of abuse.

 

[AnaTeresa]

A Judge did issue a restraining order. I think most would consider emotional fear as a form of abuse.

It was a restraining order to prevent him from taking Kyron. In fact, the court eventually restricted both of them from removing Kyron from the other's care.

While I do remember allegations from Desiree about Kaine's conduct, the restraining order, as far as I can tell, had nothing to do with alleged abuse. It was simply to prevent him from taking Kyron from her, and the same strictures were applied to her as well.

 

[MyBelle]

It was a restraining order to prevent him from taking Kyron. In fact, the court eventually restricted both of them from removing Kyron from the other's care.

While I do remember allegations from Desiree about Kaine's conduct, the restraining order, as far as I can tell, had nothing to do with alleged abuse. It was simply to prevent him from taking Kyron from her, and the same strictures were applied to her as well.

She had fear her husband would take the child from her. Such fear is usually a result of an emotionally abusive relationship, imo. I didn't mean to imply she made accusations of physical abuse. I think it would be relevant in a custody proceeding but that's just my opinion.

 

[AnaTeresa]

She had fear her husband would take the child from her. Such fear is usually a result of an emotionally abusive relationship, imo. I didn't mean to imply she made accusations of physical abuse. I think it would be relevant in a custody proceeding but that's just my opinion.

It doesn't have to be, though. You can have a fear that your spouse will take the children because of an acrimonious divorce - it happens a lot. I would think, had Kaine actually abused her, that it would be described in the restraining order. As far as I can tell from the news coverage regarding it, that's not the case.

That's not to say it didn't happen. I remember allegations about Kaine early on this case, before the murder for hire circus, that centered on Desiree's claims of abuse, as well as other allegations (I'm not going into these, as I'm trying to stay victim-friendly here). Since I haven't found any media to back that up, only blogs, I don't know if those articles were taken down or if my google-fu is failing me due to the age of the case. It's entirely possible that, as the case against TH developed, the media took down stories which painted Kaine unfavorably, in an attempt to help find Kyron. Or, his lawyers threatened legal action.

 

[human]

can all of TH's drinking issues be used in the parenting eval?

There is the DUI conviction with child endangerment . There must be people that witnessed her drinking out of control later on. There is a picture of her having an enormous margarita on her birthday.

i am sure people will try to dispute this, but one does not go from DUI to being able to control their drinking, That is all just denial by the drinker as well as the people around the drinker

 

[MyBelle]

It doesn't have to be, though. You can have a fear that your spouse will take the children because of an acrimonious divorce - it happens a lot. I would think, had Kaine actually abused her, that it would be described in the restraining order. As far as I can tell from the news coverage regarding it, that's not the case.

That's not to say it didn't happen. I remember allegations about Kaine early on this case, before the murder for hire circus, that centered on Desiree's claims of abuse, as well as other allegations (I'm not going into these, as I'm trying to stay victim-friendly here). Since I haven't found any media to back that up, only blogs, I don't know if those articles were taken down or if my google-fu is failing me due to the age of the case. It's entirely possible that, as the case against TH developed, the media took down stories which painted Kaine unfavorably, in an attempt to help find Kyron. Or, his lawyers threatened legal action.

Very well could be. An acrimonious divorce would include a court order about custody which would prevent the taking of the children and I think this one was before they were divorced. I don't know how any parent can actually prove emotional abuse and I never saw the restraining order in its entirety so I don't know what exactly Desiree claimed.

 

[MyBelle]

can all of TH's drinking issues be used in the parenting eval?

There is the DUI conviction with child endangerment . There must be people that witnessed her drinking out of control later on. There is a picture of her having an enormous margarita on her birthday.

i am sure people will try to dispute this, but one does not go from DUI to being able to control their drinking, That is all just denial by the drinker as well as the people around the drinker

Actually, I know quite a few people who were able to get control of themselves after a DUI and they don't make the same mistake again. If it was such a problem with Terri, Kaine would have used it in obtaining his first protection order. Did he use it? I'm not aware if he did.

 

[human]

I do not think Kaine was thinking about any of that . He was thinking about a person who would hire a hit man.

The statistics say that the average person arrested for drunk driving have driven drunk 800 times.

The smart ones just drink at home. Only if they are in recovery could one say they are getting a hold of themselves.

Te definition of an alcoholic includes brushes with the law and impacting your family. She was using again.

When one takes up drinking, it is as if s/he never quit. They are in the state of if they had kept drinking. It is a difficult disease that affects everyone in their lives.

 

[MyBelle]

I do not think Kaine was thinking about any of that . He was thinking about a person who would hire a hit man.

The statistics say that the average person arrested for drunk driving have driven drunk 800 times.

The smart ones just drink at home. Only if they are in recovery could one say they are getting a hold of themselves.

Te definition of an alcoholic includes brushes with the law and impacting your family. She was using again.

When one takes up drinking, it is as if s/he never quit. They are in the state of if they had kept drinking. It is a difficult disease that affects everyone in their lives.

I don't believe everyone arrested for DUI is an alcoholic. Especially if they are not arrested a second time. In my community, drunk driving arrests are down. The decline has been attributed to people learning their lesson rather than less enforcement. I've seen no evidence in this case that Terri is an alcoholic incapable of caring for her children.

 

[human]

I don't believe everyone arrested for DUI is an alcoholic. Especially if they are not arrested a second time. In my community, drunk driving arrests are down. The decline has been attributed to people learning their lesson rather than less enforcement. I've seen no evidence in this case that Terri is an alcoholic incapable of caring for her children.

I think the only thing I can suggest is for you to look up the definition of an alcoholic.

The DUI's are probably down because people have figured out they cannot afford the penalties. Even if the law is liberal, the insurance company is not. Drinking at home does not mean you do not have a problem with alcohol.

 

[MyBelle]

I think the only thing I can suggest is for you to look up the definition of an alcoholic.

The DUI's are probably down because people have figured out they cannot afford the penalties. Even if the law is liberal, the insurance company is not. Drinking at home does not mean you do not have a problem with alcohol.

alcoholism is a disease. I've seen no evidence that Terri suffers from alcoholism. Not everybody who drinks has a dependency on alcohol.

 

[human]

She lost her ability to have a job in her chosen field. She had criminal penalties because of drinking and her child was in danger because of drinking and driving.

Her relationship with Kaine was impacted as those on Ws deduced from photos early on that she was sleeping on the couch.

The fact that alcohol is more important than consequences indicates alcoholism,

She chose to continue drinking even though alcohol caused her severe problems.

 

[ami]

A Judge did issue a restraining order. I think most would consider emotional fear as a form of abuse.

She had fear her husband would take the child from her. Such fear is usually a result of an emotionally abusive relationship, imo. I didn't mean to imply she made accusations of physical abuse. I think it would be relevant in a custody proceeding but that's just my opinion.

So by your metric, both Desiree and Terri were abusive as well, as they were prevented from taking a child from the home. In the end, Kaine was given custody of both children - therefore the courts found him to be the best parent of the three.

Actually, I know quite a few people who were able to get control of themselves after a DUI and they don't make the same mistake again. If it was such a problem with Terri, Kaine would have used it in obtaining his first protection order. Did he use it? I'm not aware if he did.

He might have, but probably didn't need to, what with the murder for hire allegation and the fact that she refuses to help LE find a missing child she was last seen with. However I do think driving drunk with a child in the car could be used to evaluate whether or not one is a responsible parent, even if she does "get control of" herself and agree to stop drinking while driving her children around.