Kyron Horman's mom's civil suit against Terri Horman

[Jules71]

I'm trying to find out when baby Benadryl was pulled from the markets I know you could still get it 3 years ago, but I'm not sure how long after that it was still available. It was pulled around the same time they discontinued baby Tylenol. Now all Benadryl is labeled for 4 years or older.

If it was during a recall she may have heard that Fred meyer still had a generic brand available. I know that when baby Tylenol started going poof we bought everything on the shelf at every store we could hit because we preferred infant Tylenol over children's Tylenol.

Just jumping in here and haven't read much of this recent thread. I thought she was looking for infant Tylenol/acetemetephen. I do believe at the time it had been pulled from shelves. I don't recall if it was all brands.

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

 

[angelmom]

Isn't it true that when testifying, once you plead the fifth, you are forced to plead the fifth for all answers thereafter? (this is from a very vague memory, so, I could very well be mistaken!)

I thought I remembered this as well, but it could have been from an old Law and Order. :blushing:

What? No! You plead the 5th to questions which might incriminate you criminally if you answer. You don't HAVE to plead the 5th and you can stop pleading the 5th at any time. In most situations, once you plead the 5th, you keep on doing so -- at least for that line of questioning -- but there's no "forcing" anything. You plead the 5th at your discretion in response to each individual question. You can waive it at any time or assert it or not in response to any individual question.

So these two posts sent me looking. IANAL; however, this is interesting and might explain her refusal to answer any questions.

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/fifth-amendment-right-against-self-incrimination.html

It is important to note that, once a defendant does take the stand and testify at trial, he or she cannot ordinarily choose to answer some questions but not others. Rather, the defendant's Fifth Amendment privilege is deemed waived through the act of testifying.

 

[loves2bmom]

I don't know how on earth the judge is going to rule on this. If I understand the law (which I don't really...LOL) she can't plead the 5th to cover for a friend and must answer the questions or be in contempt. BUT if she fears she is incriminating herself, her rights are protected. The judge is going to have to decide question by question. How can he do that without knowing the answer. Bizarre!

 

[dog.gone.cute]

Something is very strange about DS pleading the fifth. VERY strange. Remember when we were reading about her cousin who was posting about her in another forum? I'm going to bump up that thread in the Parking Lot so we can take another look at it.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

:seeya: Interesting ...

Yesterday, I ran across something that was attributed to DS's cousin on a site I can't post here :innocent: but, same name on that site as the link above ...

There was discussion of DS taking the "5th" ...

:moo:

 

[Mama-cita]

She must be confident that Kyron will never be found. What pathetic women. Gives credence to the old adage "Birds of a feather..."

 

[TheDuchess]

I still think of Kyron all the time. How can anyone associate with either of these women? How do they go about their daily lives? How do they make a living? Who do they hang out with and spend time with? Who could ever want to associate with them??? And I certainly realize that Kyron died that day, or these women would not go through all of this to cover it up. Terri has sacrificed her own daughter.

I actually wonder sometimes why we don't hear about more despearate parents doing something drastic to a suspect who is thought to be hiding someone. I picture myself getting that person deep in the woods somewhere and holding them until they fess up. Of course, I am not inticing someone to do that, but could certainly see myself doing something like that out of desperation.

 

[daisy7]

Something is very strange about DS pleading the fifth. VERY strange. Remember when we were reading about her cousin who was posting about her in another forum? I'm going to bump up that thread in the Parking Lot so we can take another look at it.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

It is very strange, but IIRC, she was given immunity prior to her GJ testimony, right.

Right after Desiree's attorney asked her about Ms. H (who I guess is who DD was working for the day K went missing), DD's attorney asked for a recess. Then she came back and answered a few questions, before invoking the fifth for the first time.

She invoked the 5th on pretty much everything related to K or TH. She couldn't even say that she knew them?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

It is very strange, but IIRC, she was given immunity prior to her GJ testimony, right.

Right after Desiree's attorney asked her about Ms. H (who I guess is who DD was working for the day K went missing), DD's attorney asked for a recess. Then she came back and answered a few questions, before invoking the fifth for the first time.

She invoked the 5th on pretty much everything related to K or TH. She couldn't even say that she knew them?

I'm wondering how DS's testimony and invoking the 5th on so many questions concerning TH, Kyron, etc. will impact future witnesses who will be deposed in the civil trial? Will everyone who knows/knew DS and/or TH plead the 5th because doing so might indicate that they could have some knowledge of the pair's involvement in Kyron's disappearance?

As someone said upthread, "This could get very interesting". :moo:

 

[Chili Fries]

It is very strange, but IIRC, she was given immunity prior to her GJ testimony, right.

Right after Desiree's attorney asked her about Ms. H (who I guess is who DD was working for the day K went missing), DD's attorney asked for a recess. Then she came back and answered a few questions, before invoking the fifth for the first time.

She invoked the 5th on pretty much everything related to K or TH. She couldn't even say that she knew them?

I'm sure she wasn't given any immunity. In fact, it was reported what her attorney said about her grand jury appearance. He said that "his client was subpoenaed to testify but did not give any testimony under oath". So Dede told the grand jury as much as she told Desiree's attorney in this affidavit - nothing.

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/DeDe-Spicher-testifies-before-grand-jury-99252004-kyron-horman-missing-portland.html

 

[seattlechiquita]

This whole 5th-fest makes me very very uncomfortable. Why plead it if you had nothing to do with Kyron's disappearance? How women can be so callous shouldn't surprise me anymore, but still does.

And to think women like yours truly (O'm a tad crazy, but still) don't get to have children while some of these works of art do, makes me mad.

 

[Knox]

http://images.bimedia.net/documents/Spicer+Horman+5th.pdf

Maybe you guys missed this link from the prior page ... copy of her depo at the end of the motion.

Jeeze, Spicer is still living with her Mom & Dad, just like good ole Terri :what:

 

[redkatrampant]

:seeya: Interesting ...

Yesterday, I ran across something that was attributed to DS's cousin on a site I can't post here :innocent: but, same name on that site as the link above ...

There was discussion of DS taking the "5th" ...

:moo:

That site is always good for a few chuckles...until I realize how serious some of those people are.

 

[Cazzie]

http://images.bimedia.net/documents/Spicer+Horman+5th.pdf

Maybe you guys missed this link from the prior page ... copy of her depo at the end of the motion.

Jeeze, Spicer is still living with her Mom & Dad, just like good ole Terri :what:

I wonder what the day-to-day convos are in those 2 households.

I guess their parents think their girls are falsely accused. If not, it's harder to comprehend a lack of action.

I'm hoping for some sleep-talking that gets reported, as I do not think that either Terri or DeDe will ever be honest and confess. But I will be ecstatic to be proven wrong. JMO. Maybe they are both innocent of wrong-doing, but I don't think so.

 

[Snowden]

The parents of Jessica and Autumn's killers did the right thing, they turned their children in to the authorities.

If DS and TH were involved in Kyron's disappearance and their parents know, then in a way they are just as accountable, especially DS's father who was in LE. JMO.

God doesn't do the Fifth. No matter what, they will answer to HIM in the end if they are indeed guilty. Doesn't matter who we are, where we come from, etc., a crime against a child is the worst sin.

 

[Karmady]

I thought I remembered this as well, but it could have been from an old Law and Order. :blushing:



So these two posts sent me looking. IANAL; however, this is interesting and might explain her refusal to answer any questions.

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/fifth-amendment-right-against-self-incrimination.html

What this means is that the witness can't answer certain questions and not others if their answers to those questions involves the same potential criminal culpability. So, if I ask you your name, you answer. If I ask you whether you were at the intersction of 5th and Elm at 11 a.m, you refuse to answer pleading the 5th. If I then ask you if you have a 5 yo son and I also ask you what your middle name is. You refuse to answer. Privileged? No. Do you waive your privlege by answering? Also, no.

eta: this witness is NOT a criminal defendant. If a criminal defendant takes the 5th, they can't testify about anything

 

[john's mom]

So if DeDe's lawyer said she was subpeona'd but didn't testify, did she take the fifth for the GJ too? Can you do that? why make her show up, then not ask her anything?

 

[Knox]

I wish Gitana1 or AZLawyer would join us

 

[AZlawyer]

I wish Gitana1 or AZLawyer would join us

I'm here. Better late than never, right? Karmady has been answering questions correctly, though.

 

[Wondergirl]

The parents of Jessica and Autumn's killers did the right thing, they turned their children in to the authorities.

If DS and TH were involved in Kyron's disappearance and their parents know, then in a way they are just as accountable, especially DS's father who was in LE. JMO.

God doesn't do the Fifth. No matter what, they will answer to HIM in the end if they are indeed guilty. Doesn't matter who we are, where we come from, etc., a crime against a child is the worst sin.

Well said.

Where is their conscience?

 

[AZlawyer]

So...I'm looking through DeDe's depo for clues:
http://media.oregonlive.com/portland_impact/other/DeDe-watermarked-1.pdf

I noticed that she first gets sensitive about the questions and takes the fifth when she's asked whether Ms. Hockensmith paid her for the gardening work she did at Ms. Hockensmith's house to get ready for Ms. Hockensmith's event (p. 12-13). So that seems to be something that she sees as "dangerous territory" for her. It isn't the work itself that's sensitive, because she talks about that for quite a while after. What could be sensitive about whether she got paid for the work? She had already said she was paid for hostessing the event but not for gardening, so this was really just a throwaway follow-up question that shouldn't have set up any red flags. Also, before she took the fifth, she answered "I don't remember" and then changed her answer to take the 5th. So we can assume that she does, indeed, remember whether she got paid but DOES NOT want to say. Why not??

ETA: Oh, I see on p. 44 she says it would have been a violation to receive her unemployment benefits and not report income received.