Kyron's General Discussion Thread for 2012-13

[ami]

I don't understand your point-- the jury found Casey was not guilty.

Yes, and OJ too, and they're both murderers. And of course murderers sometimes take pictures with the people they murder, and sometimes they smile in those pictures. Seems simple enough to understand.

 

[ami]

Wasn't this same area searched early on by SAR trained searchers? If something was out there after 3 years would it still hold DNA evidence? If so I think it would be very weak evidence. So...three years later we are expected to believe that DY searches a previously searched area and finds articles pertaining to Kyron's disappearance. If anything they might turn up a soda can tossed from a car or left from a hiker.

While I don't necessarily think the search found crucial evidence, I think it's important to remember that DNA is only one type of evidence and certainly not necessary for proving someone's connection to a crime. It could have been a phone Terri tossed out, or something in an area where her cell phone pinged (and she denied being in) etc. DNA evidence is generally not as important in a family murder case, where family members' DNA is supposed to be anyway. For the sake of argument let's say they found Kyron's remains, and found remnants of Terri's DNA on him - so what? Kaine and the baby's DNA might still exist on him as well as they all lived in the same home, touched each other, folded each others' clothes, etc.

 

[blefuscu]

Where are you Kyron?

 

[Mollyandme]

While I don't necessarily think the search found crucial evidence, I think it's important to remember that DNA is only one type of evidence and certainly not necessary for proving someone's connection to a crime. It could have been a phone Terri tossed out, or something in an area where her cell phone pinged (and she denied being in) etc. DNA evidence is generally not as important in a family murder case, where family members' DNA is supposed to be anyway. For the sake of argument let's say they found Kyron's remains, and found remnants of Terri's DNA on him - so what? Kaine and the baby's DNA might still exist on him as well as they all lived in the same home, touched each other, folded each others' clothes, etc.

this is such an important point. they def need more than DNA i feel when it comes to a case like kyrons if it turns out they charge Terri. Unless it was some sort of blood with both dna's mixed i don't know how much that would do.

 

[Shadowboy]

Finally found an old article from KATU that sort of relates to the "no fight the night before" and other comments on Dr. P:

http://www.katu.com/news/local/108352154.html

Without question, there was a lot of tension and drama in the household about which KH was a little more open early on. Whether truth or lie, TH was filled with bitterness toward both KH and DY, and Ky was at the nexus of her bile.

In the April 6 e-mail obtained by KATU News, Terri writes the following about Kaine: “I have to ask him before I go out to meet anyone. I have no money because I stayed home with Kyron at birth since his natural mom wouldn't - spent all of my 30k to do so.

“I am The one who was able to get him glasses (I noticed at 6 months when I was working with him but Kaine wouldn't go in to a doc until he was 2 years - yeah - he's farsighted 750). He's on me about being fat. Wants me to do another show. Makes me pay $1000 a month to him for bills although it's my child support and unemployment. I do all the yard work, house work, mowing the lawn, cleaning the gutters.”
....

Kaine said he picked up on the tension between Terri and Kyron. “Her and I were getting into arguments all the time about her relationships with the children in general, and I wasn’t finding it acceptable.”
...

Young said it is now clear that Terri dislikes her and believes she transferred that to Kyron.

The article is an interesting re-read, in light of subsequent DY and KH interviews.

 

[human]

Hm. She does all of the yard work. So where does the landscaper fit in?

How does she manage to collect unemployment? When was the last tine she worked? Was she actively looking for a job like you are supposed to on unemployment?

Kaine got her a hot Mustang, but she could not go anywhere in it?

 

[MissJ]

Sounds like she had anger toward Kaine.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Sounds like she had anger toward Kaine.

One of the *theories* tossed around is the anger comes from the fact it didn't work out having her older son living with them. I have no idea if that is true, but that has been speculated on. I think she was just an angry and narcissistic woman period. My opinion only, of course!

 

[ami]

Finally found an old article from KATU that sort of relates to the "no fight the night before" and other comments on Dr. P:

http://www.katu.com/news/local/108352154.html

Without question, there was a lot of tension and drama in the household about which KH was a little more open early on. Whether truth or lie, TH was filled with bitterness toward both KH and DY, and Ky was at the nexus of her bile.

In the April 6 e-mail obtained by KATU News, Terri writes the following about Kaine: “I have to ask him before I go out to meet anyone. I have no money because I stayed home with Kyron at birth since his natural mom wouldn't - spent all of my 30k to do so.

“I am The one who was able to get him glasses (I noticed at 6 months when I was working with him but Kaine wouldn't go in to a doc until he was 2 years - yeah - he's farsighted 750). He's on me about being fat. Wants me to do another show. Makes me pay $1000 a month to him for bills although it's my child support and unemployment. I do all the yard work, house work, mowing the lawn, cleaning the gutters.”
....

Kaine said he picked up on the tension between Terri and Kyron. “Her and I were getting into arguments all the time about her relationships with the children in general, and I wasn’t finding it acceptable.”
...

Young said it is now clear that Terri dislikes her and believes she transferred that to Kyron.

The article is an interesting re-read, in light of subsequent DY and KH interviews.

What I took from the interview was that Desiree said Terri claimed that she and Kaine were up until 3am fighting the night before Kyron disappeared, about divorce and Terri moving out on the Friday of the disappearance, and Kaine said there was no fight the night before about divorce and Terri moving, etc. I didn't understand Kaine's words to mean they never fought in general, but that the fight Terri described happening that night never actually happened.

I get the picture that it was a very unhappy household, with Kaine being pretty cut & dried or cold about some emotionally labile things, oblivious about others, and Terri being a drama queen who loved to play the victim and a pathological liar. To me this feels like a recipe for divorce (under normal circumstances) unless there was a deep underlying respect and willingness to change the dynamics... which it seems there really wasn't.

I'd forgotten that she complained about being asked to contribute the child support and her unemployment to the household of the children, the house she lived in - totally blows me away each time I read that.

 

[Shadowboy]

I'd forgotten that she complained about being asked to contribute the child support and her unemployment to the household of the children, the house she lived in - totally blows me away each time I read that.

I tried to reply earlier and screwed up. ITA. So TH owes nothing toward the household? Wacko. This line from her email sums up her 'owe me' attitude.

“I have no money because I stayed home with Kyron at birth since his natural mom wouldn't - spent all of my 30k to do so.”
Just sayin’. TH be bitter. IMO. IMO.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I tried to reply earlier and screwed up. ITA. So TH owes nothing toward the household? Wacko. This line from her email sums up her 'owe me' attitude.

“I have no money because I stayed home with Kyron at birth since his natural mom wouldn't - spent all of my 30k to do so.”
Just sayin’. TH be bitter. IMO. IMO.

She knew what she was signing up for at marriage, right? Or did this happen after they were married? (Having to take care of Kyron).

 

[Pocono Sleuther]

She knew what she was signing up for at marriage, right? Or did this happen after they were married? (Having to take care of Kyron).

I believe she knew the situation prior to marrying Kaine. IMO, she has a valid point as far as staying at home w KH. Not saying that she's owed anything but she did do what neither if his parents would and that's stayed home to raise a child who she hadn't even given birth to. Say what you want (and I'm NOT a TM supporter, honestly I'm not. I feel she is guilty) but she sacrificed a decent portion of her life.

 

[Pocono Sleuther]

Thank you, that is exactly the point I was trying to make



Exactly. This is another of the many reasons I think it was a lie...Kaine himself didn't know about it. Huge red flag.

I'm not sure KH paid a lot of attention to these types of things. He really seems a bit oblivious to much of what went on around him. While I feel sorry for him and DY, I'm not convinced either knew Ky as well as a parent should. TM harbored a massive amount of anger towards Ky. I think that sweet boy paid for the 'sins' (in TMs eyes) of his parents. I wonder about the theory in which TM found out KH was having an affair. She has all this anger for the many sacrifices she made for KH and Ky and finds out she was betrayed in the worst way...Ky paid for it. I just wish someone would speak up. Kyron deserves to be laid to rest properly.

 

[ami]

I believe she knew the situation prior to marrying Kaine. IMO, she has a valid point as far as staying at home w KH. Not saying that she's owed anything but she did do what neither if his parents would and that's stayed home to raise a child who she hadn't even given birth to. Say what you want (and I'm NOT a TM supporter, honestly I'm not. I feel she is guilty) but she sacrificed a decent portion of her life.

But neither parent in any household with healthy children has to stay home. IMO this is a choice, and a bit of a luxury, not a necessity, for the household to be supported by one income so the child/ren can have a stay at home parent. It's weird to say Kaine wasn't "willing to" stay home with Kyron - if he hadn't worked, who would have paid the mortgage? And Desiree didn't have custody and lived hours away, on top of her medical condition, so she had no choice to stay home with a child who didn't even live in her home.

I don't get the picture that Terri was a serious career woman who made a tough choice, but a woman who drifted from job to job, man to man, a former teacher/aid who got a DUI with child endangerment - clearly she had no hot career prospects. Kyron wasn't special needs or handicapped in any way that he wasn't able to go to daycare or preschool. He could have, as millions of others do. None of the parents involved needed to be willing to stay home by necessity - it was just a lifestyle choice.

 

[Donjeta]

If this article has reliable information it doesn't seem like Terri ever was a stay-at-home parent for Kyron. Kyron was in daycare when he was little and Terri was a student and worked on and off in various jobs until the daughter was born in November 2008.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

Court records show that Desiree had primary custody of Kyron after her divorce with Kaine in early 2003. Both Kaine and Desiree said they worked out a joint arrangement: Kyron stayed with Desiree at night, was in day care and then spent two hours every afternoon at the Aloha house where Terri, Kaine and James were living.

In 2004, when Desiree moved to Canada to seek medical treatment, Kaine gained custody of his son. He said he was primary caretaker, dropping Kyron off at day care and picking him up.

In 2003, Terri earned a master's of art education from Pacific University in Forest Grove and was an on-call teacher for the Hillsboro School District, remaining available as a sub until 2006.

The Teacher Standards and Practices Commission said she maintained her basic teaching license until March 2007, then took a break, renewing it in February this year [Donjeta edit: 2010]. The state has no record of disciplinary action against her.

Unable to land a teaching job, she returned to restaurant work, taking a job as assistant manager at Red Robin in Sherwood, where she worked between December 2005 and August 2006.

About the same time, [Donjeta edit: starting late 2006 or early 2007 or so and apparently continued while she was pregnant with the daughter] Terri was working as an assistant manager at Newport Bay restaurant in Washington Square. Don Alanen, a former customer, had many conversations with her when eating there with his wife. He was impressed by her professionalism.

Alanen said that when Terri became pregnant, she told him she was thrilled to be having another baby.

It was reported that she battled with postpartum depression after their daughter was born so it's possible imo that the reason she stayed at home with the child for her first year was not because her tyrannical husband forced her to but because she wasn't able to cope with going to work.

 

[human]

Thanks Donjeta. Great analysis!

Lies just float off of her tongue. Remember how she exaggerated in her Linked in ?

Maybe the affair Kaine is having was a lie as well. Wasn't she the source of that knowledge?

Unbelievble!

 

[Donjeta]

I found another article that says Terri stopped teaching so she could be with Kyron "for his preschool and toddler years" but I don't know about that... In 2004 when he was about two years old he was in day care, according to the other article, so I'm not sure how that explains Terri leaving her teaching in 2003 when Kaine didn't even have full time custody of him. And the info comes from a friend of Terri's, and this article contains some other big lies (IMO) that apparently have been told about the whys and the wherefores of what went on during those years so there's reason to be a little sceptical imo.


http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_hormans_blended_family_f.html

Between March 2001 and June 2002, she was a substitute teacher in the Hillsboro School District. According to spokesman Beth Graser, Terri held long-term jobs at Eastwood, Mooberry and Lenox elementaries.

After moving in with Kaine, Terri went onto the on-call substitute teachers list between 2003 and 2006. Graser said Terri held no more long-term jobs with the district.

"She stopped teaching and subbing so she could be with Kyron during his preschool and toddler years," said Jaymie Finster, a friend from junior high school who worked with Terri in the school district.

But Terri did hit the books. In about 2004, she earned a master's in education from Pacific University in Forest Grove.

It certainly sounds to me that if she in fact left subbing in 2003 it was in order to study, not to take care of Kyron full time because she didn't. Kaine and Desiree said that at this time Kyron spent two hours with Kaine in the afternoons. No reason why Terri couldn't have worked if she wanted to.

The other article did say she was "unable to land another teaching job" so possibly it was not as much her choice to stop with the full time teaching as it was unavoidable. She was at the gym a lot in 2005 and that's also when she got the DUI with the child in the car so if she was drinking heavily perhaps working full time was simply not a priority at that time of her life. (IIRC we researched the school district rules when this was fresh in the news but I forget what if anything we determined about her ability to hold a teaching position with those charges against her...?) She was getting unemployment and I think it's somewhat expected that you're looking for a job and open to job offers while receiving it.

Yeah, here's another whopper that was told (JMO, MOO):

Kyron was born Sept. 9, 2002, and Kaine and Desiree were officially divorced in 2003. Kaine and Desiree shared custody, but Kyron mostly lived with Desiree until 2004, when she went to Canada after suffering kidney failure.

Kyron moved in full time with his dad, now 36, an engineer at Intel. With a demanding job at the company's Jones Farm campus in Hillsboro, where he works in the architecture group, Kaine needed child care. So, Desiree's friend Terri moved in to help.

"Someone had to watch the baby," said Amanda Howards, the former wife of Kaine's brother Kristian. "Terri was her friend. She moved in just to help with the baby."

Umm.... Yeah, right... How many people you know who have done that? Moved in with a friend of your ex, completely platonically, in order to help take care of a child?

Anyway, this implies Terri moved in in 2004, after Kaine got full time custody.

Which conflicts with:

Court records show that Desiree had primary custody of Kyron after her divorce with Kaine in early 2003. Both Kaine and Desiree said they worked out a joint arrangement: Kyron stayed with Desiree at night, was in day care and then spent two hours every afternoon at the Aloha house where Terri, Kaine and James were living.

Here's what sounds more likely to be the real story (from the other article I linked in the previous post http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html )

In the spring of 2002, Terri Horman hit the gym, working out at Bally Total Fitness in Aloha for hours at a stretch. In mid-June, a seven-month substitute teacher's job at Lenox Elementary School ended. That same month, she met Kaine Horman at a restaurant when he was out with friends and the two started dating.
Desiree Young said that relationship broke up their marriage, but Kaine said they were already living separate lives in the same house. In August, when Desiree was 8 months pregnant, she filed for divorce.

Kyron was born Sept. 9.

At the time, Terri was living in a condo in Beaverton with her son. James, who was 8, remembers Kaine bringing Kyron over to the condo as a tiny baby.

In mid-December 2002, Terri and James moved into his house in Aloha, Kaine said.

I expect Kaine would know how long he's been living with his wife. It's way before he got custody of Kyron and this says they were dating before Kyron was even born.
In mid-December 2002 Kyron was a tiny baby and apparently mostly lived with Desiree. No reason whatsoever to have someone move in Kaine's house to help take care of him...

In the April 6 e-mail obtained by KATU News, Terri writes the following about Kaine: “I have to ask him before I go out to meet anyone. I have no money because I stayed home with Kyron at birth since his natural mom wouldn't - spent all of my 30k to do so.

Even if true, (let's suppose that this refers to a brief period of time when Kyron was born and before he was old enough to go to day care, supposing Desiree wasn't on maternity leave, seeing as how she was newly single)... I would have to ask her, what the hell is wrong with you, woman? Who in her right mind would pay $30 K to take care of someone else's baby when both parents work and are perfectly able to pay her for babysitting? It's one thing to be kind and generous and another to be stupid and offer yourself as the martyr to the altar of being taken advantage of, particularly if you're going to be bitter about it later. Just say no, ladies.
http://www.katu.com/news/local/108352154.html

 

[ami]

Wow, thanks so much Donjeta!! I'd forgotten nearly all of that over the years!

 

[matou]

Awesome work Donjeta! xo

So was Terri Desiree's friend or what? It sounds like Terri and Kaine met at the restaurant and started a fling while Desiree was still pregnant with Kyron. JMO

 

[x_files]

Awesome work Donjeta! xo

So was Terri Desiree's friend or what? It sounds like Terri and Kaine met at the restaurant and started a fling while Desiree was still pregnant with Kyron. JMO

It sounds like Terri was Desiree friend first then moved in and started the affair with Kaine while Terri was sick. that's some seriously bad karma for Terri and Kaine.