LA LA - Slidell, WhtFem 20-30, UP852, Breast Implants, Pregnant Jun'86

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Was anymore ever found out about Amanda Fravel? I can't find any information on breast implants for Amanda Fravel, but there are several matches on other data.

Dates:
Amanda Fravel: Missing since June 13, 1986
Unidentified: Found June 19, 1986 estimated to be deceased 36 hours

Location/Circumstance:
Amanda Fravel: Disappeared from Las Vegas, known to be a frequent hitchhiker.
Unidentified: Found in lake near Slidell, LA
1747 miles, 25 hours distance between the two locations.

Age:
Amanda Fravel: 20 old
Undentified: estimated 20-30 years old

Height/Weight:
Amanda Fravel: 64-65 inches, 110-115 lbs
Unidentified: 64 inches, estimated 126 lbs

Amanda Fravel:
Dentals: Not available. Mandy took exceptional care of her teeth and had perfect hygiene.
http://z13.invisionfree.com/PorchlightUSA/ar/t13322.htm

Unidentified:
Dentals: No dental work, perfect teeth.
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/16ufla.html
 
Was anymore ever found out about Amanda Fravel? I can't find any information on breast implants for Amanda Fravel, but there are several matches on other data.

Dates:
Amanda Fravel: Missing since June 13, 1986
Unidentified: Found June 19, 1986 estimated to be deceased 36 hours



Location/Circumstance:
Amanda Fravel: Disappeared from Las Vegas, known to be a frequent hitchhiker.
Unidentified: Found in lake near Slidell, LA
1747 miles, 25 hours distance between the two locations.

Age:
Amanda Fravel: 20 old
Undentified: estimated 20-30 years old

Height/Weight:
Amanda Fravel: 64-65 inches, 110-115 lbs
Unidentified: 64 inches, estimated 126 lbs

Amanda Fravel:
Dentals: Not available. Mandy took exceptional care of her teeth and had perfect hygiene.
http://z13.invisionfree.com/PorchlightUSA/ar/t13322.htm

Unidentified:
Dentals: No dental work, perfect teeth.
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/16ufla.html

Thank you Brady although the stats add up quite well I dont see it (but that doesn't say she is not our girl)
 
Ok...just another "spark"

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/p/post_deborah.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/3562dfma.html

UID Date found: 19-6-1986, dead estimated 18/17-6-1986.Deborah missing 12-4-1986
UID Est. age at death: 20 to 30, born between ca. 1956 and 1966. Deborah dob March 1961, age missing 25 years.
UID height between 5’2” and 5’6” feet and inches.Deborah 5”3’
UID weight 126 pounds (estimated). Deborah 140 pounds,14 pounds difference. UID estimated, we don’t know if Deborah’s weight is exactly right….and she could have lost some weight….
UID Hair color: Auburn,(red/auburn) shoulder length.Deborah Brown hair. According to her pictures you can see, she wears it a little longer than shoulder length and there is a reddish glow over it (it’s tricky). Seems more brown than red. She might have had a haircut, a new model as we lady’s do…especially as we starting to blow up by pregnancy.
UID eye color: brown? Not quite sure…I have read that somewhere. Deborah brown eyes.
UID 12 months pregnant. Deborah (probably) ca. 4 months pregnant
UID beautiful teeth. Deborah looks to have wonderful teeth
UID breast implants. Deborah not mentioned

Don’t know about the upturned nose…also no picture of Deborah with her mouth closed, so hard to compare, and due to the blow up from being in the water hard to say if the reconstruction of the mouth of Jane Doeis completely right….. Also the same thing with Deborah’s chin. Looks quite square to me…But the eyebrows fit…plugged the way they are (first reconstructiondrawing). You have to read the story of Deborah….husband dropped out of site after they questioned him, cashed stolen checks in Las Vegas on the 16[SUP]th[/SUP]of june in 1986. Could he dropped her at the place she was found and then heading for Las Vegas….or was it not related to him at all. Hmmmmm Anyone having thoughts on this??

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BOH I want to say Deborah was looked at for LPJD


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
If so sorry......stupid of me...grinzzz :banghead::banghead:
 
Oh no do not think that way, you're awesome .... Off the top of my head cannot recall the rule out


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
She is not ruled out in Namus...so did anybody submitted her....? Does anybody know this?
 
Received a quick response, Amanda Fravel is being added as an exclusion:

Thank you for your email. I did a comparison of these two cases and we can establish an exclusion based on DNA. I have added this exclusion to National Missing and Unidentified Persons System. Let me know if there is anything that I can assist you with in the future.
 
Ok...just another "spark"

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/p/post_deborah.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/3562dfma.html

UID Date found: 19-6-1986, dead estimated 18/17-6-1986.Deborah missing 12-4-1986
UID Est. age at death: 20 to 30, born between ca. 1956 and 1966. Deborah dob March 1961, age missing 25 years.
UID height between 5’2” and 5’6” feet and inches.Deborah 5”3’
UID weight 126 pounds (estimated). Deborah 140 pounds,14 pounds difference. UID estimated, we don’t know if Deborah’s weight is exactly right….and she could have lost some weight….
UID Hair color: Auburn,(red/auburn) shoulder length.Deborah Brown hair. According to her pictures you can see, she wears it a little longer than shoulder length and there is a reddish glow over it (it’s tricky). Seems more brown than red. She might have had a haircut, a new model as we lady’s do…especially as we starting to blow up by pregnancy.
UID eye color: brown? Not quite sure…I have read that somewhere. Deborah brown eyes.
UID 12 months pregnant. Deborah (probably) ca. 4 months pregnant
UID beautiful teeth. Deborah looks to have wonderful teeth
UID breast implants. Deborah not mentioned

Don’t know about the upturned nose…also no picture of Deborah with her mouth closed, so hard to compare, and due to the blow up from being in the water hard to say if the reconstruction of the mouth of Jane Doeis completely right….. Also the same thing with Deborah’s chin. Looks quite square to me…But the eyebrows fit…plugged the way they are (first reconstructiondrawing). You have to read the story of Deborah….husband dropped out of site after they questioned him, cashed stolen checks in Las Vegas on the 16[SUP]th[/SUP]of june in 1986. Could he dropped her at the place she was found and then heading for Las Vegas….or was it not related to him at all. Hmmmmm Anyone having thoughts on this??

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Posted earlier in this thread by NOLA

I received an e-mail back today from Helen Bouzon regarding this case. Deborah Post is a rule out based on her NamUs dentals.


Thank you for sending this comparison. I checked it out and, assuming the dental information posted on NamUs is correct, the two do not match. Deborah has fillings in two teeth that are not present in the unidentified remains.
Thank you,
Helen
 
Received a quick response, Amanda Fravel is being added as an exclusion:

Thank you for your email. I did a comparison of these two cases and we can establish an exclusion based on DNA. I have added this exclusion to National Missing and Unidentified Persons System. Let me know if there is anything that I can assist you with in the future.

I'm new to Websleuths, and I'll admit that going through 33 pages of posts on this UID was a bit overwhelming. Has anyone taken a look at Judy Worrell (https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/6910/0/) as a possible match? The age, height, weight, and injuries/medical details are all similar. Judy Worrell had had a broken arm and broken leg previously and had a scar on her abdomen (from a childhood surgery, per http://www.missingin.org/reg3770/judy_worrell.htm).

There are no pictures of Judy Worrell, so I can't say whether she looks like the reconstruction of the UID from Slidell LA. Judy Worrell was from California, which would account for the year-round sun exposure and the speculation that the UID might be from California or other sunny states. Also, the UID's breast implants were manufactured in California. Those "connections" may be a long shot, but who knows?

By the way, the AMW links in the first page or two of posts don't work anymore, so I couldn't see if there was any additional information there on this UID that is not in NamUs.
 
I'm new to Websleuths, and I'll admit that going through 33 pages of posts on this UID was a bit overwhelming. Has anyone taken a look at Judy Worrell (https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/6910/0/) as a possible match? The age, height, weight, and injuries/medical details are all similar. Judy Worrell had had a broken arm and broken leg previously and had a scar on her abdomen (from a childhood surgery, per http://www.missingin.org/reg3770/judy_worrell.htm).

There are no pictures of Judy Worrell, so I can't say whether she looks like the reconstruction of the UID from Slidell LA. Judy Worrell was from California, which would account for the year-round sun exposure and the speculation that the UID might be from California or other sunny states. Also, the UID's breast implants were manufactured in California. Those "connections" may be a long shot, but who knows?

By the way, the AMW links in the first page or two of posts don't work anymore, so I couldn't see if there was any additional information there on this UID that is not in NamUs.

As nobody said anything to welcome me...I will pick up the old habbits...welcome on WS..nice to have you here...
 
I'm new to Websleuths, and I'll admit that going through 33 pages of posts on this UID was a bit overwhelming. Has anyone taken a look at Judy Worrell (https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/6910/0/) as a possible match? The age, height, weight, and injuries/medical details are all similar. Judy Worrell had had a broken arm and broken leg previously and had a scar on her abdomen (from a childhood surgery, per http://www.missingin.org/reg3770/judy_worrell.htm).

There are no pictures of Judy Worrell, so I can't say whether she looks like the reconstruction of the UID from Slidell LA. Judy Worrell was from California, which would account for the year-round sun exposure and the speculation that the UID might be from California or other sunny states. Also, the UID's breast implants were manufactured in California. Those "connections" may be a long shot, but who knows?

By the way, the AMW links in the first page or two of posts don't work anymore, so I couldn't see if there was any additional information there on this UID that is not in NamUs.


Great find!

Dates:
Unidentified: found 6-19-1986
Judy Worrell: missing since 10-5-1981

Height:
Unidentified: 64 inches
Judy Worrell: 64 inches

Weight:
Unidentified: 126 lbs
Judy Worrell: 115-125 lbs

Age:
Unidentified: 20-30 years old
Judy Worrell: 29 when unidentified passed

Scars/Marks:
Unidentified: 2.3cm scar midline on abdomen, above the naval; 1.5 cm circular-in-shape scar on right knee; 1.2 cm scar on the right wrist (per autopsy report). Previously fractured right hip.
Judy Worrell: three (3) inch scar on her abdomen. previous broken right arm (twice), previous broken leg (unknown which one)

Abdominal scar is a match. If a family/friend reported she had a "broken leg" but couldn't remember which, it's certainly plausible it was a hip.

To save from searching the thread, can you quote the information regarding breast plants being manufactured in CA, & year round sun exposure?
 
It was commented in this thread that Joyce was ruled out by NAMUS. Most likely due to the fact that both Joyce and LPJD have their DNA in NAMUS. Have seen several times where someone has submitted a possibility it was ruled out via email however it was never added to the exclusion list.

Please feel free to send it in where it will be documented here and there as a rule out/exclusion.

My heart dropped for whatever the reason I thought LPJD was Amanda then there it was in black and white as a "NO"
 
NAMUS Exclusions as of 01/31/17

  • Debra Cressotti 1955 Massachusetts
  • Carol Donn 1963 Florida
  • Amanda Fravel 1966 Nevada
  • Hazel Klug 1962 Virginia
  • Tammy Leppert 1965 Florida
  • Shannon Potter 1970 Maryland
  • Susan Riedling 1967 Kentucky
  • Patricia Schmidt 1964 Virginia
  • Faye Self 1956 Louisiana
  • Lisa Sexton 1966 Ohio
  • Mary Shinn 1953 Arkansas
  • Sally Stone 1964 Idaho
  • Nadine Timm 1935 Illinois
  • Annette Vail 1965
  • Joyce Walcott 1967 California
  • April Zane 1960 Illinois
 
Persons to look for are one's that do not have DNA, it may be listed as not available, initial inquiry or submitted test not complete.
Have looked at persons in NAMUS that do not have DNA, Fingerprints nor Dental
 
Here is the information I can provide to you, use to come in this thread and basically talk
to myself and read .... :blushing:

Lake Pontchartrain Jane Doe

Date Found: Thursday June 19, 1986
North Shore Community, St. Tammany Parish – Slidell, LA
(LPJD was spotted approximately 7:30pm on the evening of 6/19/86)



Physical Description:
Estimated Age: 20-30 (Mary M indicated mid 30’s cannot be ruled out)
Race: White
Gender: Female
Height: 5’2” – 5’4”/ 62”-64” Petite frame (Initial report height given 5’7” / 67”)
Weight: 120-126 lbs. (Initial reports weight given 100-120 lbs.)
Hair: Shoulder length hair, auburn (Reddish brown / Light brown)
Eye: Unknown, Large eyes (Per morgue sketch)
Facial Features: Small slightly upturned nose (Per morgue sketch), freckles
Clothing: None (Found nude)
Jewelry: None (1/2” tan line on left hand ring finger, however no ring was found)
Medical: Approximately 8-12 weeks pregnant, Small old scars; right knee 1.5 cm circular-in-shape (.59”), right wrist 1.2 cm (.47”), midline on abdomen above navel 2.3 cm, (.90”), old major right hip injury possible compound fracture (upper thigh/femur bone), Silicone Breast implants; 200cc Cox-Uphoff International of Costa Mesa, CA. implants were encased in a silastic shell (No Serial Numbers). She may have had surgery on her nose, it was hard to totally confirm based on the old morgue photos.
Tattoos: None
Dental: Dental chart available; Absence of wisdom teeth, no dental work teeth were free of cavities and fillings they were in good condition.
Fingerprint: One complete finger print was lifted from her decomposed hands.
DNA: Available – LSU Faces State Lab
Postmortem Interval: 36 Hours (NAMUS) 2 Days or Less (LSU)

Circumstances/Investigation:
LPJD was spotted by (2) fishermen at approximately 7:30 pm on the evening of 6/19/86 near the community of North Shore. By the time deputies launched a boat to recover the partially submerged body drifted approximately 40 yd. (120 ft.) east of the I-10 twin span bridges and 50-60 yd. (150-180 ft.) from shore.

She was nude with a plastic bag over her head secured with duct tape and a 22lb. red weight (type used on exercise equipment) tied to her neck. Investigators found several superficial wounds on the woman’s face/head but were unsure what caused them.

Information from weather experts and marine biologist has led detectives to believe the body was put into the lake between Bayou Lacombe and Rigolets Pass.

There were no serial numbers on the breast implants. Investigators consulted New Orleans plastic surgeons for assistance where the size and manufacturer was determined. It was also advised that most plastic surgeons in the New Orleans area use larger implants.

The implant manufacturer Cox-Uphoff spokesman provided the Sherriff’s office a list of plastic surgeons around the country who have ordered the 200cc size implant. Cox-Uphoff spokesman said the size is common in the US and estimated 500-700 doctors across the country order the 200cc size every year. Detectives have called or written 175 physicians for help. When you go out of this area it begins to get lost doctors way up in the Northeast of the country may not be as helpful to assist.

The medical pathologist that performed the autopsy determined she died of asphyxiation. However, could not pinpoint whether death was by drowning, suffocation or strangulation. Her blood contained small amounts of caffeine and alcohol. Her body bore evidence of several minor cuts and blows, all superficial and was unsure what caused them. He estimated she died the day before her body was found (Sometime Wednesday June 18th). LPJD bore small old scars, right knee, right wrist and upper abdomen.

St Tammany LE received a report on Wed-6/18 that a caller reported deputies would be told where to find (2) bodies beneath an interstate highway bridge if they met a man at the state tourist information center on I-10 West of Slidell. Deputies found no one at the rest area, a search of bridges on I-10 and I-59 turned up no bodies.

Inspector Harvey Pratt of the Oklahoma Bureau of Investigations examined morgue photos of the woman’s face and painted over them to produce a likeness of her. She was a young attractive woman w/shoulder length auburn hair swept back from her face.

St Tammany LE investigation produced 200 inquiries from around the country but few strong leads to her identity. A description of LPJD is filed in an FBI computer in Washington. Sheriff’s office spokesperson Tiffany Tate said based on the attention the case has been given locally in the past “it is obvious the woman is not from this area”.


Investigating Agencies:

NCMEC Case # NCMC4000074
NCIC Case # U-211402266

St. Tammany Parish Sheriff’s Office
Dt. Marco Demma; 985.645.2467 (Direct Line) / 985.726.8000 (Main Office Line)
E-Mail Address: mdemma7213@yahoo.com
*Demma has retired from LE

LSU Faces Lab – Case # LSU 03-35 - http://identifyla.lsu.edu/profile.php?id=383
Teresa Wilson, Asst. Research Professor: 225.578.4761
Maria Allaire, Research Associate: 225.578.4775
Dr Ginesse Listi: 225.578.3906 / E-Mail: glisti1@lsu.edu
General Email: faces@lsu.edu


NAMUS UP - Case # 852 - https://identifyus.org/cases/852
Michael Nance: 918.527.0080 / E-Mail: Michael.Nance@unthsc.edu

Crimestoppers – Possible reward – 504.837.8477 / info@crimestoppersgno.org


Burial/Remains:
LPJD’s remains are now held at the LSU Faces lab
9/4/03 – Exhumed for DNA/Dental matching to Lisa Marie Sexton
7/2/86 – Buried in a wood frame cardboard box w/baby angel printed on top
Greenwood Cemetery, Potters Field Section – Slidell, LA (Bayou Patassat)


Weather Conditions:
6/19 (Thur) – High 91.9 F / Low 79.0 F; Wind 5.3 – 12 kt, PPTN 0.00” (Fog/Thunder)
6/18 (Wed) – High 91.9 F / Low 70.0 F; Wind 5.1 – 8.9 kt, PPTN 0.04”
6/17 (Tue) – High 91.0 F / Low 75.9 F; Wind 3.4 – 9.9 kt, PPTN 0.35” (Thunder)

Information Resources:
The Times Picayune Article – 2003 (Archives)
The Times Picayune Article – 12/14/86 (Archives)
The Times Picayune Article – 07/16/86 (Archives)
The Times Picayune Article – 07/03/86 (Archives)
The Times Picayune Article – 06/21/86 (Archives)
Doe Network Case: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/16ufla.html
AMW Fans: http://amwfans.com/thread/811/lake-pontchartrain-jane-killer-louisiana
AMW Video: https://youtu.be/XWqqYSec0DA
Trail of Bones: More Cases from the Files of a Forensic Anthropologist – Mary Manhein (2005)


Right Hip Compound Fracture:
LPJD must have incurred an immense amount of pain and a lengthy recovery period. During the recovery period a patient would need to use a walker or crutches for several months and attend physical therapy. Many of these types of injuries require surgery that include the usage of pins in the procedure. The injury was not recognized until LPJD was exhumed would pins deteriorate if LPJD had any at all ?

Right Hip Compound Fracture:

Broken Hip/Fracture occurs in the upper portion of your thighbone or femur. The top of the femur and part of the pelvic bone meet to form the hip.

Compound Fracture:
A fracture in which the broken bones cut through the skin. This type of fracture is more prone to infection and requires immediate medical attention.

Hip Fractures:
Common injuries after a front end accident. Due to the force of an accident can push up the leg to the hip and break the hip near the pelvis.

How fractures can occur: High-Energy forces; motor vehicle accidents, pedestrian struck by a vehicle, bicycling / motorcycle accidents or falling from a significant height.

Surgical:
Most hip injuries require surgery to repair the hip. Surgery is done as soon as possible after a hip fracture. Certain fractures that have not moved “displaced” may not require surgery. Because there is a risk that they may move later on they are often fixed. After surgery a common issue is leg length discrepancy a shoe lift may be needed to equalize the limb length.

Recovery:
Patient will not be fully weight-bearing for several months. Crutches, walker or a cane will be needed to aid mobilization.

OrthoInfo
American Academy of Orthopedic Information
http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=A00521

Fractures and Trauma
http://www.motion-ortho.com/fractures-and-trauma/
http://health.howstuffworks.com/human-body/systems/musculoskeletal/heal-broken-bones1.htm
Mary noted it was an old injury, the appearance of the bone was changing.

The bone is remodeled. Special cells called osteoclasts break down extra bone around the fracture until it's completely healed and returned to its original shape. Bone remodeling is a very slow process which can take anywhere from 3 to 9 years to complete! https://askabiologist.asu.edu/bone-healing

Time Frame:
Given the estimated time found evening of Thur-6/19 estimated time in the water 36 hours she was dumped into the lake early morning of Wed-6/18.

Age Range:
Originally the victim was believed to be between 17 – 20 years old. Manhein and her staff concluded that the victim was actually between 20 – 30 years of age. Manhein emphasized that it cannot be ruled out that the woman was in her mid-30’s.

Height Range:
Using a formula that uses the femur bone help Manhein and her staff conclude the victim was between 5’2” – 5’4” original reports stated the victim was between 5’7” – 5’8”.

Age Range:
20-30 * Do not rule out up to 35
AGE DOBY
20 1966
21 1965
22 1964
23 1963
24 1962
25 1961
26 1960
27 1959
28 1958
29 1957
30 1956
31 1955
32 1954
33 1953
34 1952
35 1951

Breast Augmentation:
Cox Uphoff International (CUI) began marketing implants in 1976, introducing smooth single-lumen gel (1976-1991), double-lumen (1977-1991), reverse double-lumen (1982-1993), triple-lumen (1983-1988), gel-saline adjustable (1987-1991)
 
Porchlight has a great database as well, give them huge props on their organization and documentation.

LPJD Case # LAF860619
There is a database that has Possible Matches and Ruled Out Possible Matches, give it a look it will def help.
 
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