Laura Babcock Murder Trial 11.22.17 - Day 20

[tommyR]

I'm never going to be mistaken for a legal scholar so a little help here pls. Under Cdn law if you help dispose of a murder victim are you guilty of said murder even if you had nothing to do with the actual killing?
That is the only way I can fit MS into this picture. The evidence is poor (so far) regarding his direct involvement in the death of LB. But his involvement after-the-fact is well documented.

 

[Night_is_Mine]

So since the "She will be a dirty girl " texts were not included that means that gun wasn't meant for LB. Then it had to be for WM? Or someone else?

 

[palisadesk]

I'm never going to be mistaken for a legal scholar so a little help here pls. Under Cdn law if you help dispose of a murder victim are you guilty of said murder even if you had nothing to do with the actual killing?.

As I understand it, you can't be convicted of murder if you had no part - either planning, assisting or executing -- in the murder. Helping afterwards, depending on the nature of the "help," could lead to charges of "accessory after the fact" (needs to involve assisting the guilty party in escaping detection, or escaping in fact) or causing an indignity to a human body - which is clearly what MS did.

I believe the judge, in his charge to the jury, will outline what options they have from M1 on down, and might include either or both of the above.

 

[swedie]

Didn't CN testify that she and DM went to Isho's place to watch movies and hang out?

I believe you are correct. I hope the Crown isn't feeling over confident. IMO I've seen some loose ends which they didn't tie and should have...unless we're just not getting those tweets. MOO.

 

[deugirtni]

What a terrible day for LH to be busy.. REALLY missing her tweets...

And ohhhhhh how I miss Adam Carter and soooo too bad he couldn't have been there today! :star:

 

[redwing7225]

And ohhhhhh how I miss Adam Carter and soooo too bad he couldn't have been there today! :star:

http://www.cfjctoday.com/article/59...ellen-millard-gun-days-laura-babcock-vanished

Imo...we have to look at all the pieces of the puzzle that the Crown has presented. Sure there may be missing corners but IMO, it all comes together.
Sharing an article I just found with MWJ testimony tidbits

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[deugirtni]

They didn't get along well but loved him like a brother? Ummmm this is absurd and AM is still his pathetic yes man. Moo

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Why do you (anyone) figure DM is going out of his way to be so derogatory about his relationships with both MS and CN? They didn't live up to his expectations?

 

[JPC]

Let's not forget "mobile pet cremator

Another one: Manly Man


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[JuneBug67]

Absolutely. And there is no way it was anything but that. What else could it be? That question did nothing to help his client. Why is old man Dungey engaging in these games..

There have been some good suggestions on what Dungey`s intention was, and I`ll throw in one more. Pocket Full of Stones tells a big, long extended story about a drug empire and murdering a cop and then murdering a judge and then getting back out and starting all over again. Presumably the artists didn`t actually do any of this. Dungey may come back around to this later to illustrate how rappers tell stories through their raps that aren`t grounded in the facts of their direct actions or experience, but in story telling and art. And because the song was "old school", its a good example that they've been doing that for a long time and it's an inherent part of the genre. Getting "Ish" to acknowledge he recongnizes a song thrown at him somewhat randomly establishes it as a solid example of the genre.

 

[ADAWG]

Why do you (anyone) figure DM is going out of his way to be so derogatory about his relationships with both MS and CN? They didn't live up to his expectations?

For CN he is trying to show he doesn’t care about her so why would he kill for her. MS he is trying show they weren’t close so why would he involve him with a murder. If he was going to do that it’d be his best friend AM.


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[canadiangirl]

Yup. It's just like the way he wrapped up his cross-examination of Christina Noudga at the Bosma trial. Here's what Adam Carter wrote:

Dungey chose a very specific point in Millard's letters to his former lover with which to cap off his cross-examination. He showed a portion on the courtroom screens where Millard wrote, "I deserve you, and you deserve me."

"That's what he wrote to you, right?" Dungey said, and Noudga agreed.

"No further questions," Dungey said.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/bosma-noudga-testimony-laughter-1.3565679

But at least he picked something from evidence. This felt way out in left field imo

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[canadiangirl]

There have been some good suggestions on what Dungey`s intention was, and I`ll throw in one more. Pocket Full of Stones tells a big, long extended story about a drug empire and murdering a cop and then murdering a judge and then getting back out and starting all over again. Presumably the artists didn`t actually do any of this. Dungey may come back around to this later to illustrate how rappers tell stories through their raps that aren`t grounded in the facts of their direct actions or experience, but in story telling and art. And because the song was "old school", its a good example that they've been doing that for a long time and it's an inherent part of the genre. Getting "Ish" to acknowledge he recongnizes a song thrown at him somewhat randomly establishes it as a solid example of the genre.

That is a very solid explanation. A good one too.

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[Night_is_Mine]

There is ZERO chance Dungey knew of that song's existence. He's a 70 year old white man. You're telling me he's driving around blasting some incredibly old school vulgar rap songs? So given that. Dungey did not research very little known old school rap songs to prove some odd point or have some moment. Especially since nobody knows that song. Especially not the jury nor the spectators. NOBODY would get the reference.Please give me a break. Even if he did know the song and all that.. What made him so sure Ish would have known this song?? MS told him to say it. Simple as that. Stop reaching guys lol

 

[JuneBug67]

There is ZERO chance Dungey knew of that song's existence. He's a 70 year old white man. You're telling me he's driving around blasting some incredibly old school vulgar rap songs? So given that. Dungey did not research very little known old school rap songs to prove some odd point or have some moment. Especially since nobody knows that song. Especially not the jury nor the spectators. NOBODY would get the reference.Please give me a break. Even if he did know the song and all that.. What made him so sure Ish would have known this song?? MS told him to say it. Simple as that. Stop reaching guys lol

He's a lawyer - and old lawyer - and he probably doesn't ask a question he doesn't know the answer to. Do you know the song "We are the Champions"? Yes? I thought so. "Pocket Full of Stones" could be the equivalent in gansterland. That song could be his go-to point when he has to defend rap lyrics or musical tastes that come up in trial.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

There have been some good suggestions on what Dungey`s intention was, and I`ll throw in one more. Pocket Full of Stones tells a big, long extended story about a drug empire and murdering a cop and then murdering a judge and then getting back out and starting all over again. Presumably the artists didn`t actually do any of this. Dungey may come back around to this later to illustrate how rappers tell stories through their raps that aren`t grounded in the facts of their direct actions or experience, but in story telling and art. And because the song was "old school", its a good example that they've been doing that for a long time and it's an inherent part of the genre. Getting "Ish" to acknowledge he recongnizes a song thrown at him somewhat randomly establishes it as a solid example of the genre.

Reading up on this group, the one member spent considerable amount of time in jail (not for drug dealing). I think he'd have chosen something less obscure if that was his goal and he'd definitely have picked someone who didn't spend years in prison.

I doubt Dungey was passing messages so I think it was just an attempt to have another drop the Mic moment as others have guessed.

 

[mimimic]

Right! Why did DM want to make a deal? in his calendar wondering what she wants.....huh!

I wonder if Laura knew something. The whole phone thing surrounding AM is just odd and strange IMO. Did she know something or find something out from that phone? Finding it in a park just doesn't sit right.. Jmo

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[JPC]

I wonder if Laura knew something. The whole phone thing surrounding AM is just odd and strange IMO. Did she know something or find something out from that phone? Finding it in a park just doesn't sit right.. Jmo

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I have two takes on this:
She stole it and entries to pretend that she found it in the park

OR

DM found a way to plant it on her or put it in her possession so that he had a reason to ruin her reputation with others and further isolate her from the group so that his posse would dislike her and not care if she went missing.


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[RezButt]

A lot of red herrings here. Bottom line for me; this was exactly the same thing that happened to TB. Kill somebody and get away with it. Given what we know now, if they hadn’t made so many mistakes with TB they would have gotten away with killing LB.

These guys were gonna leave a trail of bodies all over southern Ontario. And my guess is DM would eventually end up killing MS.

 

[JPC]

I am sure that we will see MWJ again at the WM trial. I would love to know who has been paying his legal fees. I wonder if DM or TD will call any witnesses for the Defence? Justice Code seems to have insight to this wrapping quickly.


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[bakingirl]

He's a lawyer - and old lawyer - and he probably doesn't ask a question he doesn't know the answer to. Do you know the song "We are the Champions"? Yes? I thought so. "Pocket Full of Stones" could be the equivalent in gansterland. That song could be his go-to point when he has to defend rap lyrics or musical tastes that come up in trial.

I agree, he probably has a reason for closing his cross-examination that we don't yet know.

Plus, Dungey likely has an associate and possibly even a young articling student doing all sorts of research on this case. If Dungey asks, the team's research could involve searching out obscure rap lyrics from the 1990s.

Just saying that it's not just a "70 year old white man" acting for MS.