Laura Babcock Murder Trial 12.06.17 - Closing Arguments - Day 2

[clefk27]

Powerful close by Crown! .
The trolls have been silenced.
A better day for the Babcocks than yesterday for sure.
Interested to hear what Judge and jury have to say...

 

[Jasper52]

I'd sure love to know how confident DM and MS are feeling after the Crown's closing !!! I'm also curious to know how long it will take the Jurors to reach a decision once the case has been handed over to them.

IIRC, Justice Code may take about two days........does anyone else remember how long?

:rose: Justice for Laura :rose:

 

[EspressoBean]

Do you mean throughout the trial or in crowns closing?
It definitely was said in her closing, so I’m assuming that it was said during some point in the actual case. I’m going to assume that the reporters take what they think is of importance to their followers because they couldn’t possibly tweet every single thing said.

ETA: They’d then take their tweets and form their narrative write ups. So if that part wasn’t in their tweets,blogs etc then it wouldn’t get written about at all.

JMO

Were you in court today or do you have a link showing that the crown talked about it not being hunting season? I haven't seen anything about it outside of the WS forum.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

So going from the crowns closing it appears MS needs to have been involved in the killing itself to be convicted, not just the planning and aftermath. That is a tougher hurdle to climb.

Obviously they had to do it on the off chance TB was alive but wonder if police regret nabbing DM alone instead of waiting to get them both at the same time. Those days after DM was arrested allowed MS to get rid of whatever evidence he could get his hands on (phones and guns at minimum but who knows what else he had)

 

[Jasper52]

So going from the crowns closing it appears MS needs to have been involved in the killing itself to be convicted, not just the planning and aftermath. That is a tougher hurdle to climb.

Obviously they had to do it on the off chance TB was alive but wonder if police regret nabbing DM alone instead of waiting to get them both at the same time. Those days after DM was arrested allowed MS to get rid of whatever evidence he could get his hands on (phones and guns at minimum but who knows what else he had)

RBBM

This is what the Crown said today;

Jury doesn't have to find both accused guilty of first degree murder, she says. Those who help may be as guilty as those who intend to murder.

If one person physically killed her, the other person can be equally guilty of murder, like in an arranged hitman murder. Same for a driver or a lookout.

"A person cannot decide to help or encourage a killer then say I didn't do the killing. That is not a defence," Cameron says. "People play different roles. Doesn't mean only one person is guilty." Unnecessary for the jury to decide who did the killing.

The jury doesn't have to decide who does what. If one was the killer and the other encouraged, the jury must convict them both of murder. "You may never be able to decide who did what exactly." We may never know. But were they in this together?

"So long as they planned to murder #LauraBabcock and one helped the other, they are equally guilty in the eyes of our law," Cameron says.

Mark #Smich was aware of the conflict with #LauraBabcock. He and #Millard "were like brothers. They loved each other."

Millard mentions "the Laura situation" to #Smich, who does not ask for clarification. "No point in going," until incinerator is ready. On July 3, #Smich does not ask why he should not be outside when #Millard is returning to Maple Gate with.

Smich is clearly involved in the incineration. He's part of the plan from start to finish, crown says. Motive is not an essential element of first degree murder. Crown does not have to prove motive.

"The motive for Mr. Millard is plain and obvious. The motive for #Smich may seem less evident, but is it?" No evidence he had a personal grudge against #LauraBabcock, but he and #Millard were like brothers, and #Smich was dependent on Millard.

"They expressed their brotherly love for each other," Cameron says. #Smich participated in the murder of #LauraBabcock to help #Millard

EDIT to add: In the Crowns closing statements today, they basically said MS was also guilty of M1.

 

[brightii]

http://www.chch.com/laura-babcock-murder-trial-16/

This is Lisa Hepfner's report from last night's CHCH newscast. Today's report is not yet available.

All MOO

 

[bakingirl]

Adam Carter's blog (CBC)

Cameron says to the jury, if you still have doubt, look at Mark Smich's face in the photo of him smiling in front of the incinerator. "Look at his smiling face. Look how proud he looks in front of this monstrous machine."


"You don't help get rid of a body, if you weren't part of making it," Cameron says about Smich. "It doesn't matter how they killed her. We will never know. But they killed her, and they tried to cover her up by burning her body. And they sure seemed pleased about it."

"Fortunately for us, they didn't do a very good job covering up their crime," Cameron says.


"They thought then, and they argue now, that no body equals no murder. And they are wrong. They may have successfully eliminated Laura's body, but what can't be eliminated is that mountain of evidence before you," Cameron says.

This is so very satisfying, to read Jill Cameron's eloquent and articulate closing argument.

 

[MorningStar22]

Thank you to all the tweeters today! I agree with the majority here, it was a very succinct close by JC. Hopefully this will all be wrapped up by this time next week.

 

[Grey-St]

Wowza! I think I have a girl crush on Jill Cameron! :loveyou:

 

[Georgeo]

Lisa Hepfner@HefCHCHNews

In June they get the new "incinerator 2.0." June 9, Millard has fight with Noudga. We don't have the content of text messages with #LauraBabcock, "they are irretrievable." But we know from phone records Babcock and #Millard had lots of contact.

July 3, Noudga says "have fun doing big things," with a winky face. Cameron says there's loads of context. Millard has threatened her. She is at his house. She has laid her last footprint on this earth.

"You of all people know how I regarded Laura," Crown reads. "Regarded." He uses the past tense, "because he knows he killed her."

It would have been really easy for #Millard to lure #LauraBabcock. What did he do when Babcock reached out to him? He got in touch with gun dealer Iisho to talk about "tools."

All the while Millard is communicating with #LauraBabcock, he's communicating with Iisho about buying a gun.

"She has laid her last footprint on this earth" that statement resonated with me. The finality of her absolutely being dead. Her parents must have gone through many tears today.

 

[JPC]

"She has laid her last footprint on this earth" that statement resonated with me. The finality of her absolutely being dead. Her parents must have gone through many tears today.

I found this statement heartbreaking and again brought forth the senselessness of both her murder and TBs.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Grey-St]

This afternoon was quite the success. I have always felt both DM and MS were guilty of M1. However, I have been nervous that there may not be enough evidence to see a conviction for MS. But the crown really hammered home all the points that I felt show MS as guilty. DM needed zero clarification in my books, but it felt good to hear it all again in an organized and concise manner. Having the last word is really going bode well for the crown and for Laura and her loved ones.

I have a question though: Around June 30th, 2012, numerous text messages and phone calls between LB and DM take place, apparently. Then a note from Lisa Hepfner saying "(actual messages not available)". What is that about? Has it ever been stated why they aren't available?

Also over 60 messages between LB and CN that we haven't seen, not that I think it's entirely necessary, it's just interesting. I understand that CN isn't the one on trial no matter how much I loathe her. :seeya:

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Were you in court today or do you have a link showing that the crown talked about it not being hunting season? I haven't seen anything about it outside of the WS forum.

I must be going absolutely crazy! I swear I seen this today and from JC. Was about a hunter not leaving the kill behind and out of hunting season. I’m trying to remember what else was in the post but I think it had to do with SS. I’ve only been here today, so I know it was here that I seen it.

Mods, do we have missing posts?

 

[e3brown]

I have a question though: Around June 30th, 2012, numerous text messages and phone calls between LB and DM take place, apparently. Then a note from Lisa Hepfner saying "(actual messages not available)". What is that about? Has it ever been stated why they aren't available?

From Adam Carter, it looks like DM deleted the messages and Laura's phone is not available.

http://live.cbc.ca/Event/Laura_Babcock_murder_trial_Dec_6?Page=4

Cameron now saying Millard and Babcock had many contact in May and June of 2012 -- something Millard says wasn't true. The texts between the two were deleted and unrecoverable, she says.
by Adam Carter 3:55 PM

 

[e3brown]

I must be going absolutely crazy! I swear I seen this today and from JC. Was about a hunter not leaving the kill behind and out of hunting season. I’m trying to remember what else was in the post but I think it had to do with SS. I’ve only been here today, so I know it was here that I seen it.

Mods, do we have missing posts?

Didn't look through the WS but I remember seeing it mentioned as well. I checked Lisa Hefner and Adam Carter's and it was mentioned on Lisa Hefner's twitter.

https://twitter.com/HefCHCHNews

[FONT=&amp]Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews 5h5 hours agoMore
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Why would a hunter leave their kill in the woods? Why would anyone need a $40k dollar incinerator to get rid of the odd deer? That doesn't make sense, Cameron says. #LauraBabcock
[/FONT]

 

[Grey-St]

From Adam Carter, it looks like DM deleted the messages and Laura's phone is not available.

http://live.cbc.ca/Event/Laura_Babcock_murder_trial_Dec_6?Page=4

Cameron now saying Millard and Babcock had many contact in May and June of 2012 -- something Millard says wasn't true. The texts between the two were deleted and unrecoverable, she says.
by Adam Carter 3:55 PM

Hmmm, okay. I also found this on Lisa Hepfner's twitter:

Someone asked "Why are the messages not available, how is the crown able to prove the texts?" (Also a question I had). LH's response was "They have evidence of the communication, but not the content. Laura's phone wasn't recovered."

ETA: So wait, if LB's phone was never recovered, how do they know of over 60 messages between her and CN?

 

[iPhoneGuy]

....So wait, if LB's phone was never recovered, how do they know of over 60 messages between her and CN?...

Probably from cell phone records from phone statements

SMS MESSAGE SENT TO #
SMS MESSAGE RECEIVED



Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

 

[ab-initio]

So going from the crowns closing it appears MS needs to have been involved in the killing itself to be convicted, not just the planning and aftermath. That is a tougher hurdle to climb.

No, the Crown's closing stated the exact opposite of that. In a couple of different ways.

ETA: Sorry -- replying as I read. I see this was already addressed at length.

 

[Kamille]

Hmmm, okay. I also found this on Lisa Hepfner's twitter:

Someone asked "Why are the messages not available, how is the crown able to prove the texts?" (Also a question I had). LH's response was "They have evidence of the communication, but not the content. Laura's phone wasn't recovered."

Smart phones are like computers. When you delete information, it is still stored in the OS until something else comes along to overwrite it. Considering all the texts that they did recover from DM's phone, just imagine all the ones they didn't. And there are a couple of ways to delete texts on an Iphone. You can delete them individually or you can delete an entire conversation.

As far as the text communication between him and LB, it is likely that once she was deceased and her phone was tossed "in the lake", DM deleted the entire last text communication between their phones. He likely did that often with other text conversations as well but some were recovered and damaging texts that were recovered were presented in court. I'm sure there were a LOT more that were overwritten, lucky for many of the key players in this IMO.

So to sum it up, some texts or entire text conversations would get overwritten with new information and I believe it's pretty random how that occurs. It is unfortunate that it appears the last conversation that he had with LB, which was deleted, appears to have been overwritten. But the billing information from both of their phones was available from their service providers. That billing information showed that there were texts and phone calls between the two phones on the days between June 30 and July 3rd, 2012.

MOO

 

[Grey-St]

Probably from cell phone records from phone statements

SMS MESSAGE SENT TO #
SMS MESSAGE RECEIVED

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Ahh, interesting. Thank you!