Laura Babcock Murder Trial 12.12.17 - Final Charge - *Verdict Watch*

[andreww]

One of MS’s texts was, “we should get me a dog.” BBM. I believe this shows that MS had more ownership/interest in the incinerator project beyond just helping DM. And MS was not entering the pet cremation business. IMO their plan was to murder people and burn their bodies. This was the ruthlessness, the business rising, etc. that they frequently talked about.

IMHO, in addition to profiting from taking things “from the source”, the sinister experiences of killing and cremating were intended to give MS inspiration to write his rap lyrics. Kinda like a painter will travel to a remote mountain range for inspiration, MS wanted real experiences to inspire his violent raps. This is how he would gain an edge on other “wannabe” rappers. Being “real” in gangster rap is an important thing. Killing people mutually benefitted DM and MS. DM cured his parasites/herpes and MS had real material to base his raps from.

I also think it’s feasible that they envisioned a human cremation service to eliminate evidence for shady folks like Isho and his connections. His crowd was not far removed from the Hell’s Angels and other gangs. Once they had their process down they could open their shop for business. We also heard that DM was going to build a giant garage at his farm, supposedly to create the ultimate chop shop.

Thanks for your reply billandrew. I don't necessarily disagree with you, but your judgement is based on a lot of information that was not heard inside this courtroom. I can answer the question of guilt in two ways, what I think he is guilty of, which would be similar to hat you have stated, and what the crown has proved he's guilty of, which amounts to assisting in disposal of the body.

 

[winter2017]

ly if DM and MS got away with the murders and disposing of the bodies they would have hooked up with others who wanted to murder someone and have perfect plan to get away with it.
It was Tim Bosma s murder that busted them. it was the witness Igor who contacted the police about the man with a tattoo , that finally gave the cops something to go on.
They had a record of DM already in the computer and record of his tattoo. IF Igor had not been observant , who knows what would have happened.
He was a trained military person so he had training probably to observe things.
That lead was what lead the police to DM.
Then all hell broke loose, once they started investigating him they found a lot of evidence of other crimes. unbel

 

[meterclicks]

The judge reminds the jury the "onus is on the Crown to prove all the elements of the offence charged. Mr. Millard and Mr. Smich do not have to prove anything."

"The Crown is also required to prove beyond reasonable doubt that one or both of the accused are guilty of the offence charged or one of the lesser included offences."
by Shannon Martin 11:34 AM

Code tells the jury, "If you believe Mr. Austerweil's and Dr. Rufolo's exculpatory evidence, and find it reliable in the context of all the other evidence, to the effect that Ms. Babcock is still alive, then obviously you must find Mr. Millard and Mr. Smich not guilty of any offence, as all the offences in this case require proof that Ms. Babcock is deceased."
by Shannon Martin 11:36 AM

 

[Kamille]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
3m3 minutes ago
So how does the jury apply the burden of proof when addressing the conflict in the evidence? They assess credibility and reliability of all the evidence they heard, including the exculpatory evidence. #LauraBabcock

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
2m2 minutes ago
The onus is on the crown to prove the offence charged, beyond a reasonable doubt, or one of the lesser included offences. The defence relies on evidence that #LauraBabcock may still be alive or may have been killed by someone else or by misadventure.

It appears that both of them are being lumped into one defence?

 

[FastLikeLight]

As well as a CONVICTED illegal firearms dealer :thinking:

DM showed his dad's gun license (or whatever it was called). Though, that was not used later in a defense.

 

[Kamille]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
5m5 minutes ago
If the jury believes the defence evidence, in context of all the evidence, then they would find #Millard and #Smich not guilty of any offence. #LauraBabcock

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
3m3 minutes ago
If the jury is uncertain about the truth of #LauraBabcock's death and about #Millard and #Smich responsibility for her death, they would find the accused not guilty, because they would have reasonable doubt.

 

[Kamille]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
5m5 minutes ago
Even if the jury completely rejects the defence evidence, they can only convict #Millard and/or #Smich if the rest of the evidence proves their guilt. #LauraBabcock

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
1m1 minute ago
"A criminal trial is not a credibility contest," in which the jury picks the most credible of two sides. They have to decide on if the case has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. #LauraBabcock

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
32s32 seconds ago
The jury must consider all the evidence, and remember that the onus is on the crown to prove guilt. They shouldn't speculate on things for which there is no evidence. #LauraBabcock

 

[Kamille]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
40s41 seconds ago
Jury should be rational and logical, not conjectural or speculative. They do not have to all agree on the same facts -- some might find some evidence more compelling than others. #LauraBabcock

 

[meterclicks]

Code now reviews possible verdict options with the jury.

"You must consider all the evidence when you determine whether Mr. Millard and Mr. Smich committed an offence, always remembering the onus is on the Crown to prove beyond reasonable doubt and always remembering that you are not to engage in speculation."

"You do not have to agree on the same facts," he explains.

He says some may find "one particular piece of evidence to be compelling, while others find it of little weight."

Still he says, "each of you must be persuaded that it has been proved on one factual basis or another, beyond a reasonable doubt, before you can convict that accused."
by Shannon Martin 11:43 AM

 

[CJPRINCESS]

DM showed his dad's gun license (or whatever it was called). Though, that was not used later in a defense.

But what’s that have to do with DM? My father has his gun license too, does that mean i can own guns? Does that entitle one to buy illegal firearms? Did WM call Isho to buy guns? Nothing, No, No and No

That’s a rouse in DMs defence and quite a lame excuse to use his DADs license as his defence of purchasing illegal firearms. Not once was WM ever mentioned in any texts about anything especially with the guns. Geesh lets pin it on the dead guy (that DM killed) cuz he isn’t here to tell the truth!

JMO

 

[Kamille]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
2m2 minutes ago
Because first degree murder carries two lesser charges (2nd degree & manslaughter) and there are two accused, #Smich and #Millard, there are eight possible verdicts. #LauraBabcock

 

[andreww]

I'm afraid this might be the case too, based strictly on insufficient evidence. I hope not, knowing what he is capable of.

You know, If I was on the jury I'd have no problem finding him guilty of M1 based on what I know about him. Is there evidence? Probably not. Would I lose sleep worrying I'd sent an innocent man away? Not on your life. I'm sure that some members of the jury feel the same way and the minute pieces of evidence they do have might just be enough. We'll see.

 

[meterclicks]

Code says there are eight possible verdicts:

-Not guilty (in relation to one or both accused)
-Not guilty of first degree murder but guilty of manslaughter (in relation to one or both accused)
-Not guilty of first degree murder but guilty of second degree murder (in relation to one or both accused)
-Guilty of first degree murder (in relation to one or both accused)

"Needless to say, your verdicts do not have to be the same in relation to each accused and each offence charged," he says.
by Shannon Martin 11:47 AM

 

[meterclicks]

Code calls for the morning recess and says he has two last sections to complete, about 20 pages, he estimates he'll take another hour with the jury before deliberations begin.
We're back in 20 minutes.
by Shannon Martin 11:49 AM

 

[andreww]

But what’s that have to do with DM? My father has his gun license too, does that mean i can own guns? Does that entitle one to buy illegal firearms? Did WM call Isho to buy guns? Nothing, No, No and No

That’s a rouse in DMs defence and quite a lame excuse to use his DADs license as his defence of purchasing illegal firearms. Not once was WM ever mentioned in any texts about anything especially with the guns. Geesh lets pin it on the dead guy (that DM killed) cuz he isn’t here to tell the truth!

JMO

Think he was trying to suggest that WM was a gun collector of sorts and he was just acquiring them for him.

 

[Kamille]

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
4m4 minutes ago
1- Not guilty, one or both. 2 - not guilty of 1st degree murder but guilty manslaughter for one or both. 3 - Not guilty 1st degree but guilty 2nd degree murder. 4 - guilty of first degree one or both #LauraBabcock

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
3m3 minutes ago
Jury should deliberate separately in relation to each accused and offence charged. A verdict for one accused should not influence their decision on the other accused. #LauraBabcock

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
2m2 minutes ago
The verdicts do not have to be the same for each accused. It depends on how the jury assesses the relevant evidence. The jury will get a verdict sheet to consult. They put a checkmark next to a reached verdict. #LauraBabcock

Lisa Hepfner‏ @HefCHCHNews
1m1 minute ago
Break now before two final instructions to jury, and then deliberation. #LauraBabcock

 

[Kamille]

Think he was trying to suggest that WM was a gun collector of sorts and he was just acquiring them for him.

Which I'm sure we're going to see suggested much more prominently in the murder trial for his father.

MOO

 

[Myvice]

I find it odd that MM says they got the Ipad the day after the incinerator was used but in reality it was on the 4th. To me, those days held significance in her mind and her mind was saying they got the Ipad when the deed was done. I just found it odd that those dates would hold significance for her if she wasn't aware of what was going on.

 

[CJPRINCESS]

Think he was trying to suggest that WM was a gun collector of sorts and he was just acquiring them for him.

Yes but still pointless to even mention that. Probably why DM didn’t/couldn’t use it for his Defence. Unless you’re a shady person, you wouldn’t be collecting guns illegally through a street dealer. My uncle collected long guns and would never think of buying a gun from a gun trafficker. The consequences are not worth having that gun. I’m sure WM was a smart man.

Just as DM fabricated stories through his letters to CN. I believe this was another fabricated story to try to cover his own Azz for purchasing that gun.

 

[redheart]

One of MS’s texts was, “we should get me a dog.” BBM. I believe this shows that MS had more ownership/interest in the incinerator project beyond just helping DM. And MS was not entering the pet cremation business. IMO their plan was to murder people and burn their bodies. This was the ruthlessness, the business rising, etc. that they frequently talked about.

IMHO, in addition to profiting from taking things “from the source”, the sinister experiences of killing and cremating were intended to give MS inspiration to write his rap lyrics. Kinda like a painter will travel to a remote mountain range for inspiration, MS wanted real experiences to inspire his violent raps. This is how he would gain an edge on other “wannabe” rappers. Being “real” in gangster rap is an important thing. Killing LB mutually benefitted DM and MS. DM cured his parasites/herpes and MS had real material to base his raps from.

RSBM

Wow. I hadn't noticed the "me" before. The Crown should have hammered this home.