Laura Babcock Murder Trial - *GUILTY*

[redwing7225]

I think the assumption is based on her ballerina career

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...yes, that is correct. Personally, I feel as though it is a talent but that's just my opinion.

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[ABro]

...yes, that is correct. Personally, I feel as though it is a talent but that's just my opinion.

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But she doesn't have a "ballerina career."

She teaches ballet and fitness. Back in the old days she would have been what's known as a gym teacher.

She's no more talented than Noudga, who worked her way through college as a lifeguard and was accepted to med school in Europe, or the real estate agent, who set up her own business.

It's all in how you choose to spin things.

 

[redwing7225]

But she doesn't have a "ballerina career."

She teaches ballet and fitness. Back in the old days she would have been what's known as a gym teacher.

She's no more talented than Noudga, who worked her way through college as a lifeguard and is now in med school abroad, or the real estate agent, who set up her own business.

It's all in how you choose to spin things.

Looking at it as you have put it...i will agree with you.
I suppose, I truly sit and wonder what the h*ll she was thinking to stay with this fella. I suppose the luxuries of life were enough for her as mentioned by a previous poster?

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[ABro]

Looking at it as you have put it...i will agree with you.
I suppose, I truly sit and wonder what the h*ll she was thinking to stay with this fella. I suppose the luxuries of life were enough for her as mentioned by a previous poster?

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Objectively, she came out way ahead of the other women in terms of material gain so there's that.

But the relationship remains a bit of a mystery. It would be nice to learn more about it. I thought Millard might spill at the trial, but, in the end, he didn't.

 

[Shaz14]

But she doesn't have a "ballerina career."

She teaches ballet and fitness. Back in the old days she would have been what's known as a gym teacher.

She's no more talented than Noudga, who worked her way through college as a lifeguard and was accepted to med school in Europe, or the real estate agent, who set up her own business.

It's all in how you choose to spin things.

I’ve always found it interesting that almost everyone that was involved with DM appear to have been fairly well educated and hard working. They all had stuff to gain from him but they also had stuff to lose. The only people who weren’t were the people that Smich brought along. I wonder what DM’s friends initially all thought of Smich when he started coming around.

 

[ABro]

I’ve always found it interesting that almost everyone that was involved with DM appear to have been fairly well educated and hard working. They all had stuff to gain from him but they also had stuff to lose. The only people who weren’t were the people that Smich brought along. I wonder what DM’s friends initially all thought of Smich when he started coming around.

Interesting, but I'm not sure it's true. Michalski kept up his plumbing studies but Hagerman was a bartender with no interest in higher education. Shirinian too worked in clubs while Noudga soldiered on an got her degree even after her BF was in jail for murder. Smich was lazy beyond belief and Marlena only went out to work when he told her to. IN the end, I think it's fair to say, DM's friends ran the gamut from useless guy who never held a job (Smich) to highly motivated aspiring doctor (Noudga).

Maybe what's remarkable is that, despite Millard, they all remained pretty much on the course they would have been on without him.

 

[Woodland]

Wow, given the last 10 or so posts - note to self and warning to others -

Don't come forward and speak to LE on any crime regardless of how much or how little you knew the perps, their circle of friends and what they were up to. The public will speak poorly of you for years whether you played a role in the crime or not.

Suspect this is a known fact among many people given the number of unsolved crimes.

 

[Dion]

Interesting, but I'm not sure it's true. Michalski kept up his plumbing studies but Hagerman was a bartender with no interest in higher education. Shirinian too worked in clubs while Noudga soldiered on an got her degree even after her BF was in jail for murder. Smich was lazy beyond belief and Marlena only went out to work when he told her to. IN the end, I think it's fair to say, DM's friends ran the gamut from useless guy who never held a job (Smich) to highly motivated aspiring doctor (Noudga).

Maybe what's remarkable is that, despite Millard, they all remained pretty much on the course they would have been on without him.

Smich wouldn't be where he is now, if it wasn't for DM. Well, he might be in jail on some lesser charge, but it's unlikely he would be in jail for life for killing two people.

You're right about his laziness though, and greed also led him to where he is now. He thought he would get a fancy car and a recording studio for going along with Millard.

 

[ABro]

Smich wouldn't be where he is now, if it wasn't for DM. Well, he might be in jail on some lesser charge, but it's unlikely he would be in jail for life for killing two people.

You're right about his laziness though, and greed also led him to where he is now. He thought he would get a fancy car and a recording studio for going along with Millard.

I'm not so sure. Millard tried very hard to groom Michalski, but it didn't work, and Millard didn't kill anyone.

Then he met Smich, and the killing began. Maybe they were both catalysts for each other.

 

[ABro]

Wow, given the last 10 or so posts - note to self and warning to others -

Don't come forward and speak to LE on any crime regardless of how much or how little you knew the perps, their circle of friends and what they were up to. The public will speak poorly of you for years whether you played a role in the crime or not.

Suspect this is a known fact among many people given the number of unsolved crimes.

How so?

The people that came forth and talked to police have fared pretty well in the court of public opinion -- a lot of Laura's friends, Shawn Lerner, Javier Villada, Millard's other roommate, the good samaritan, even the guys who used escorts, etc.

The people that get trashed are generally those involved in the crimes.

Who do you think came forward and helped police, and is being treated unfairly?

 

[mimimic]

Yes- neither DM or MS were headed for anything of honor. If not for each other, it would have another mate. Who knows maybe their meeting saved one of their lives, as they could have been dead on another evil chosen path.

 

[Dion]

I think I read that DM was out with Jenn, her mother and with his mother. It wasn't just his father's home, it was his home too.

Do you recall where you read that? If that's true, it really takes the cake. To kill your father, then go out with your mother etc. acting like everything was normal and then taking them home to find the dead body.

That's not how I imagined things - I thought he had probably called his mother before calling 911 telling her that his father had been despondent/suicidal and to make sure she backed him up with that in the police report. But I have no basis for thinking that, because so little information has been forthcoming.

 

[Woodland]

How so?

The people that came forth and talked to police have fared pretty well in the court of public opinion -- a lot of Laura's friends, Shawn Lerner, Javier Villada, Millard's other roommate, the good samaritan, even the guys who used escorts, etc.

The people that get trashed are generally those involved in the crimes.

Who do you think came forward and helped police, and is being treated unfairly?

You have twisted my original point by putting two different points into one.

Many that came forward have fared well because they deserve it - those that did not or may not have come forward are not faring well - they were 'just there' at various points in time. The reason for it is beyond me other than 'because I can'.

Not helpful to future or cold cases if one sees the somewhat disparaging remarks on those not involved. A comment on this by LE would be interesting imo.

 

[ABro]

You have twisted my original point by putting two different points into one.

Many that came forward have fared well because they deserve it - those that did not or may not have come forward are not faring well - they were 'just there' at various points in time. The reason for it is beyond me other than 'because I can'.

Not helpful to future or cold cases if one sees the somewhat disparaging remarks on those not involved. A comment on this by LE would be interesting imo.

I'm afraid I don't understand your point them. I thought you were saying people are less likely or unlikely to come forward if they believe they will get trashed on the internet.

 

[Woodland]

I'm afraid I don't understand your point them. I thought you were saying people are less likely or unlikely to come forward if they believe they will get trashed on the internet.

I am saying that - and questioning why people feel the need to trash or speaking unkindly towards those not involved.

Barak Obama made a great point on this today - aired today from an interview in the last month or so. You and others might want to check it out. Jmo.

 

[ABro]

I am saying that - and questioning why people feel the need to trash or speaking unkindly towards those not involved.

Barak Obama made a great point on this today - aired today from an interview in the last month or so. You and others might want to check it out. Jmo.

I heard it. And I don't think it's relevant to this discussion.

One of the endlessly fascinating aspects of this case is the group dynamics. Who knew what? Who did what? What power did Millard exercise? Etc.

As for Jenn, I do find her interesting, just like all the rest. And I think it's perfectly legit to ask what she saw in Millard. Millard was known for being cheap yet he appears to have continued to subsidize her after their breakup? What does that mean? Did he love her? Was their breakup a trigger for him? Or was it just another way to exercise control?

 

[Woodland]

A giant step backwards imo. People are less likely to come forward for the greater good if they can expect to be discussed for the sake of discussion - and in an unkind or unflattering manner.

That's what BO said today - very relevant imo.

 

[ABro]

A giant step backwards imo. People are less likely to come forward for the greater good if they can expect to be discussed for the sake of discussion - and in an unkind or unflattering manner.

That's what BO said today - very relevant imo.

I think there's a need to define what you mean by come forward.

Does it mean go to police of one's own accord? Like Shawn Lerner? Or the guy who told his vice principal about the rap? Or the good Samaritan?

Or does it mean talk to the police when they arrest you like Andrew Michalski and Marlena Meneses?

Or does it mean lie to police on multiple occasions like Matt Hagerman even though you're talking to them?

Because, quite frankly, I don't see that any of these people would have changed their course of action and not spoken to police just because they thought it might be all over the internet. They were likely far more worried they would be charged with crimes and about what their parents would say.

In fact, I think some of them would have behaved better if they realized how their bad behaviour was going to look. It might have helped if they'd been worried about being shamed down the line.

 

[Woodland]

I think there's a need to define what you mean by come forward.

Does it mean go to police of one's own accord? Like Shawn Lerner? Or the guy who told his vice principal about the rap? Or the good Samaritan?

Or does it mean talk to the police when they arrest you like Andrew Michalski and Marlena Meneses?

Or does it mean lie to police on multiple occasions like Matt Hagerman even though you're talking to them?

Because, quite frankly, I don't see that any of these people would have changed their course of action and not spoken to police just because they thought it might be all over the internet. They were likely far more worried they would be charged with crimes and about what their parents would say.

In fact, I think some of them would have behaved better if they realized how their bad behaviour was going to look. It might have helped if they'd been worried about being shamed down the line.

Again, you are now only referencing people that fared well by coming forward. You may have the last word here - the bouncing back and forth between two points is not my thing.

 

[Just4TB]

As part of the 2017 year end, TPS is highlighting their own efforts in securing murder convictions in the LB murder case.
While Carbone and his team may have done a good job chasing and collecting evidence, that was unfortunately only after Tim Bosma had been killed.
The story only speaks a 1/2 truth in my opinion, leaving out the initial incompetent handling of the case, prior to Carbone taking the lead.

Dellen Millard, 32, and Mark Smich, 30, were charged in 2014 with first-degree murder for the 23-year-old’s death and both were found guilty earlier this month.
The fact two convictions were “secured” even though the victim’s body was never located is a credit to the “excellent” job done by investigators, said Bott, who lauded his team of officers for their ongoing hard work and dedication.

http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/homicides-2017-most-of-torontos-victims-killed-by-guns