Laura Babcock Murder Trial - *GUILTY*

[Tealgrove]

Isn't there a Toronto French School around the same location Laura Babcocks phone disappeared?

There is. It's located at Cawthra and Lakeshore. IIRC Laura's phone last pinged in the Indian Grove Road area which is a little west of Cawthra closer to Mississauga Road.

I've often thought that the phone was thrown in the Credit River just off the QEW.

Unfortunately, since neither of these two degenerates have a conscience we are never going to know what really happened.

 

[Grey-St]

There is. It's located at Cawthra and Lakeshore. IIRC Laura's phone last pinged in the Indian Grove Road area which is a little west of Cawthra closer to Mississauga Road.

I've often thought that the phone was thrown in the Credit River just off the QEW.

Unfortunately, since neither of these two degenerates have a conscience we are never going to know what really happened.

Jumping off this post, as it had me reflecting a bit for some reason. Thinking back to the CanLii document, where MS, when responding to Desi's request to partake in missions to make some money, says he "has to be willing to merk people": what did they truly have to gain, financially or otherwise, in murdering poor LB? It's a part of this case I've never been able to understand.

Obviously any senseless murder is difficult for us to understand, but there's usually some sort of reasoning behind it that shows how the crime unfolded. There had to have been a purpose to their madness beyond a love triangle or a thrill kill when it came to LB, but I just don't see it. I'm really not buying that she was simply an annoyance to DM or CN, they weren't even in that much of contact. How does any of this affect then financially, anyway?

 

[JuneBug67]

Jumping off this post, as it had me reflecting a bit for some reason. Thinking back to the CanLii document, where MS, when responding to Desi's request to partake in missions to make some money, says he "has to be willing to merk people": what did they truly have to gain, financially or otherwise, in murdering poor LB? It's a part of this case I've never been able to understand.

Obviously any senseless murder is difficult for us to understand, but there's usually some sort of reasoning behind it that shows how the crime unfolded. There had to have been a purpose to their madness beyond a love triangle or a thrill kill when it came to LB, but I just don't see it. I'm really not buying that she was simply an annoyance to DM or CN, they weren't even in that much of contact. How does any of this affect then financially, anyway?

I think there is a very good chance that Laura was a crime of opportunity robbery. They had just reconnected days before and she probably was open about her activities and that she had a large sum of money. He got a couple thousand or so, and an iPad. Who knows what else he may have taken from her, or used her for. He knew he would have the means to dispose of her body in the near future so he may just have chosen not to let the opportunity slip by.

There is really no solid proof or even any great evidence that the incinerator was purchased for Laura. There’s at least as good a chance that it was just a tool to use for all the people they might want to off in the future, like the guns, and she happened to be the first when an opportunity to rob a vulnerable person arose.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Debate over consecutive life sentences for murderers Millard and Smich far from over
A Toronto judge is deciding whether to sentence Dellen Millard and Mark Smich to consecutive periods of parole ineligibility for the murders they committed.
https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...urderers-millard-and-smich-far-from-over.html

So far, Canadian judges have imposed consecutive periods of parole ineligibility in nine reported cases involving at least one first-degree murder conviction, Cameron told court.

That was before an Alberta judge bucked the apparent judicial trend recently by rejecting the prosecution’s request to sentence two triple murderers to consecutive parole ineligibility periods.

While the pair, Jason Klaus and Joshua Frank, committed “horrendous offences,” and their crimes must be strongly denounced, the judge suggested it was unnecessary to sentence the men to 75 years with no ability to apply for parole because they had already received life sentences.

“In fact, parole for multiple murderers is rare. In other words, eligibility for parole and the granting of parole are two distinct matters, and the prospect of the Parole Board granting parole for a multiple murderer is slim,” Justice Eric Macklin wrote.

 

[JuneBug67]

Debate over consecutive life sentences for murderers Millard and Smich far from over
A Toronto judge is deciding whether to sentence Dellen Millard and Mark Smich to consecutive periods of parole ineligibility for the murders they committed.
https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/...urderers-millard-and-smich-far-from-over.html

That is really interesting...thank you! That judge’s decision was two days after Laura’s sentencing hearing. The decision kind of echos arguments that I recall Dungey in particular making - essentially that the parole board is in the better position to assess 25 years down the line and that they have all the tools and authority required to protect society. There are advantages and disadvantages to kicking it 25 years down the line.

 

[musicaljoke]

That is really interesting...thank you! That judge’s decision was two days after Laura’s sentencing hearing. The decision kind of echos arguments that I recall Dungey in particular making - essentially that the parole board is in the better position to assess 25 years down the line and that they have all the tools and authority required to protect society. There are advantages and disadvantages to kicking it 25 years down the line.

I don't think that Canadians have much confidence in the parole board. Do we tend to see it as a community action group, rather than part of our justice system? Or maybe we just need closure at the time of sentencing, so that victims and communities don't have to deal with sentences of undetermined length. There is a perception that a criminal can be sentenced to 20 years, but then released by the parole board in 5 years.

I believe that ridiculously long sentences, such as 400 yrs that we see in some US cases, would make a mockery of our justice system, but an "apparent" free pass on subsequent, multiple murders, is equally wrong.

 

[Tealgrove]

I think there is a very good chance that Laura was a crime of opportunity robbery. They had just reconnected days before and she probably was open about her activities and that she had a large sum of money. He got a couple thousand or so, and an iPad. Who knows what else he may have taken from her, or used her for. He knew he would have the means to dispose of her body in the near future so he may just have chosen not to let the opportunity slip by.

There is really no solid proof or even any great evidence that the incinerator was purchased for Laura. There’s at least as good a chance that it was just a tool to use for all the people they might want to off in the future, like the guns, and she happened to be the first when an opportunity to rob a vulnerable person arose.

I have always felt that Laura was an opportunistic test subject for things to come later.

Not only was she causing trouble for DM, she was living a risky lifestyle, she was living a transient life, she had fallen out with her parents, she was expendable in DM's eyes. Her usefulness had worn out. She made the perfect test subject for his diabolical and deviant plans.

DM figured no one would care that she was missing and no one would be looking for her. Her disappearance could be easily explained away, and for a while he was right.

He got to kill someone and he wanted to do that. He got to cremate a human body and perfect his technique.

IMO DM saw Laura as an expendable piece of scrap that he could toy and experiment with.

TBH, Laura's life and death haunt me. What he did to her I cannot reconcile. But I guess there's no reconciliation possible when you're dealing with a psychopath.

MOO

 

[Grey-St]

I think there is a very good chance that Laura was a crime of opportunity robbery. They had just reconnected days before and she probably was open about her activities and that she had a large sum of money. He got a couple thousand or so, and an iPad. Who knows what else he may have taken from her, or used her for. He knew he would have the means to dispose of her body in the near future so he may just have chosen not to let the opportunity slip by.

There is really no solid proof or even any great evidence that the incinerator was purchased for Laura. There’s at least as good a chance that it was just a tool to use for all the people they might want to off in the future, like the guns, and she happened to be the first when an opportunity to rob a vulnerable person arose.

Yeah, I do agree that just like the guns, the incinerator was purchased for a purpose, but with no specific person in mind. I guess it's just hard for me to believe that she was killed for a few thousand dollars and an iPad, but I suppose it could be possible. I sometimes just wonder if there was something else to it that we may never find out.

 

[Grey-St]

I don't think that Canadians have much confidence in the parole board. Do we tend to see it as a community action group, rather than part of our justice system? Or maybe we just need closure at the time of sentencing, so that victims and communities don't have to deal with sentences of undetermined length. There is a perception that a criminal can be sentenced to 20 years, but then released by the parole board in 5 years.

I believe that ridiculously long sentences, such as 400 yrs that we see in some US cases, would make a mockery of our justice system, but an "apparent" free pass on subsequent, multiple murders, is equally wrong.

I have little faith in the Parole Board of Canada from personal and professional experience. I wasn't dealing with multiple murders though, but multiple offenses, yes, and multiple victims. Can anyone refresh my memory on recent multiple murderers being denied/granted parole? Bernardo?

 

[Grey-St]

TBH, Laura's life and death haunt me. What he did to her I cannot reconcile. But I guess there's no reconciliation possible when you're dealing with a psychopath.

MOO

You took the words right out of my mouth. I think this is exactly how I feel, also.

 

[nuff]

You took the words right out of my mouth. I think this is exactly how I feel, also.

The feeling of excitement (because I think she was truly enamoured of DM) she must have had waiting for him to pick her up at Kipling vs. what came next. I just pray she was unaware and did not suffer.

 

[Grey-St]

The feeling of excitement (because I think she was truly enamoured of DM) she must have had waiting for him to pick her up at Kipling vs. what came next. I just pray she was unaware and did not suffer.

YES, this too. I think about this all the time, and it breaks my heart. I'm not going to lie, I've shed a few tears over these cases. The complete innocence of their victims, their enthusiasm of selling their truck, or hanging out with a guy they like, and then the completely sinister disregard and disposal of their lives, has affected me in a way I can't sometimes articulate.

I'm able to become quite detached when following true crime, but every now and then a case comes along that completely humanizes me. Additionally, this is exactly why I feel so strongly about consecutive sentencing here. I consider myself a progressive person, and root everything I do, think and feel, in human rights. But they took the rights, the lives, of these innocent and unassuming victims. I gather that they may never be granted parole even with concurrent sentences, but I don't want to risk it, and I also can't reconcile it. It's not right for them to even be given that privilege.

They don't get to be shielded by the constitution. The constitution didn't protect LB and TB from DM and MS.

 

[RezButt]

Yeah, I do agree that just like the guns, the incinerator was purchased for a purpose, but with no specific person in mind. I guess it's just hard for me to believe that she was killed for a few thousand dollars and an iPad, but I suppose it could be possible. I sometimes just wonder if there was something else to it that we may never find out.

Their texts indicate it was for an owner of a Dodge 3500.

 

[E-coaster]

You don't fund criminal activity with your own personal cash. Best to have an illegal source of cash and keep it off the books and bank accounts. DM biggest screwup was purchasing the eliminator IMO. Maybe he wanted to go into the body disposal business? How much would someone pay for that type of service?

 

[ABro]

You don't fund criminal activity with your own personal cash. Best to have an illegal source of cash and keep it off the books and bank accounts. DM biggest screwup was purchasing the eliminator IMO. Maybe he wanted to go into the body disposal business? How much would someone pay for that type of service?

There is no such thing as "the body disposal business." I mean, seriously, who's your target customer and how much are they going to pay and what does that come to in a year?

I don't know why people have such a hard time accepting that these two guys just wanted to kill people. Killing was as much their goal as getting a truck or shutting up a young woman who had become a nuisance.

If you look at the evidence, it's really all very clear. It's when you start twisting the evidence because it doesn't fit your view of the world that the problems start.

 

[THXGuru]

Justice Code is not an idiot. He said he has been watching Millard, he is aware Millard is likely a psychopath. Fully expect a consecutive ruling. As for Smich, I think there is some chance that Code will give him a concurrent ruling.

 

[Just4TB]

5 more days, Code will be delivering his sentences on Mon Feb 26th. Per the CanLii doc, MS told his buddy, "Gotta be willing to merk people", There is no clearer statement to the type of creature MS really is.
Neither is less culpable than the other IMO. I am hoping for consecutive sentences for both DM and MS.

 

[Grey-St]

Their texts indicate it was for an owner of a Dodge 3500.

Sure, but that ended up being their last and final crime. So really, these acquisitions served the greater purpose of facilitating all their crimes.

 

[Grey-St]

There is no such thing as "the body disposal business." I mean, seriously, who's your target customer and how much are they going to pay and what does that come to in a year?

I don't know why people have such a hard time accepting that these two guys just wanted to kill people. Killing was as much their goal as getting a truck or shutting up a young woman who had become a nuisance.

If you look at the evidence, it's really all very clear. It's when you start twisting the evidence because it doesn't fit your view of the world that the problems start.

I agree. I know we so desperately want to make sense of these crimes and the acquisition of the incinerator, but no one would need or hire DM and MS for this reason. It was to dispose of people, evidence, etc, from their own crimes.

 

[Grey-St]

Justice Code is not an idiot. He said he has been watching Millard, he is aware Millard is likely a psychopath. Fully expect a consecutive ruling. As for Smich, I think there is some chance that Code will give him a concurrent ruling.

Well that would suck, because they were found guilty of the exact same crime, times two. MS is no less culpable. So if Code truly is intelligent, he will see that and rule accordingly, imo.