Legal Q&A for Rhornsby #2

[whats the punch line]

That is why I expect the defense to somehow admit that Casey's entire story was a lie from the very beginning - in opening statements perhaps.

Because to do so really takes the wind out of the State's case so to speak.

Okay, but other evidence, ie body farm, coffin files, video at blockbuster, smell of decomp put the wind back in the sails. (which we know the defense will refute, as well as they can.)

Are trials like this always a catch 22 so to speak?

And I apologize if any of my comments offend or put you off. It certainly is not my intention.

Thank you again.

Also: How do you make the defendants statements were a lie from the beginning help her cause?

 

[RR0004]

Okay, but other evidence, ie body farm, coffin files, video at blockbuster, smell of decomp put the wind back in the sails. (which we know the defense will refute, as well as they can.)

Are trials like this always a catch 22 so to speak?

And I apologize if any of my comments offend or put you off. It certainly is not my intention.

Thank you again.

Also: How do you make the defendants statements were a lie from the beginning help her cause?

I really don't think we can lose sight of what the State does have. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[RR0004]

Mr. Hornsby...not sure if you've read our "coincidence" thread...but what do you think about Cindy and George being out of town at the time Caylee was found?

 

[RR0004]

http://www.examiner.com/x-23328-Tru...-cash-it-in-sounds-off-in-exclusive-interview

Do you honestly believe CA poses no threat to society?

 

[Darla]

This is such an interesting thought provoking thread. Thanks for the thought you really believe she had help from a person with a law enforcement background. I can see your point - but I still question - George? So my question is, when you think about George - would he really be able to disassociate himself enough to bag up his precious grand daughter? Out of all of them, he seems the most emotionally out of control. Bursting into meetings, throwing up during his first interview, throwing his father through a plate glass window, etc. And the rest of the time - just a doofus. I have a hard time believing he was ever a competent homicide detective. Do you not think if he discovered Casey had just killed Caylee, he would be so angry he would have done something to Casey? Not helped her clean up.

Wow. All this talk about someone helping dispose of the body. I just don't see it.

Sometimes we tend to over complicate things. I think it's quite simple - she murdered her child in a fit of rage (or maybe not a fit of rage) and eventually (in a panic) drove to the closest place from home where she thought no one would see her, pulled up off the road as far as she could, jumped out (adrenaline really pumping now), opened the trunk, ran a few feet into the woods and flung the bag as far as she could. We know how close to the road the body was found.

If she got help disposing the body the only person who comes to my mind with LE experience would be TR. After all, reading his IM's to Casey, he acted like Caylee was a p-i-t-a and a reason he wasn't getting any. Of all her boy toys, I think he is the biggest turn off! UGH

JMO of course

 

[whats the punch line]

I want apologize to WS'ers and Mr hornsby, I can get pretty indignant.

I hope you understand that I am just trying to learn (as obnoxious as I can be about it)

My intent is good, I hope that is apparent.
Thanks!

 

[Just Jayla]

Wow. All this talk about someone helping dispose of the body. I just don't see it.

Sometimes we tend to over complicate things. I think it's quite simple - she murdered her child in a fit of rage (or maybe not a fit of rage) and eventually (in a panic) drove to the closest place from home where she thought no one would see her, pulled up off the road as far as she could, jumped out (adrenaline really pumping now), opened the trunk, ran a few feet into the woods and flung the bag as far as she could. We know how close to the road the body was found.

If she got help disposing the body the only person who comes to my mind with LE experience would be TR. After all, reading his IM's to Casey, he acted like Caylee was a p-i-t-a and a reason he wasn't getting any. Of all her boy toys, I think he is the biggest turn off! UGH

JMO of course

Agreed-And as to the motions, and the legal arguments happening now: I just don't think the jury will be that steeped in it-Lawyering is for lawyers, not jurors (necessarily) and unless a motion causes a major swing in the course of the trial or disallows crucial evidence for either side, I believe the jury will rely for the most part on the judge's instructions and their guts.

ETA: My feeling on the OJ verdict is that it was not completely about the evidence and the back and forth, it came down to the jury's gut feelings-And to some of them, for example, Mark Fuhrman's comments were a punch in the gut.

 

[msinformed]

http://www.examiner.com/x-23328-Tru...-cash-it-in-sounds-off-in-exclusive-interview

"I'm not a big conspiracy theorist, but I believe in politics."

Kind of o/t, but, are you interested in this "arena" ......... currently, or, perhaps in the future?

eta: I found the article to be very good ...... awaiting Part 2

 

[Just Jayla]

http://www.examiner.com/x-23328-Tru...-cash-it-in-sounds-off-in-exclusive-interview

"I'm not a big conspiracy theorist, but I believe in politics."

Kind of o/t, but, are you interested in this "arena" ......... currently, or, perhaps in the future?

eta: I found the article to be very good ...... awaiting Part 2

"Not a danger to society?" Ask Governor Huckabee about that one.
If I were a Floridian (though thankfully I am a Virginian), I would find that to be a high risk bet-This is a girl who may have killed a small child out of spite-What would she have done if AH gave her trouble over the money? Over a guy? What if the overwhelming loserdome that her life had become caused her to shift that ire to her parents? Her avatars say a whole lot about a lot of things.
Maurice Clemmons was not convicted of murder, but he was convicted of:


Maurice Clemmons' record UPDATE


To clarify matters, here's what state Correction Department spokesman Dina Tyler says the state record shows for a criminal past for Maurice Clemmons (shown in LRPD mugshot), who's being sought for questioning in the slaying of four Washington police officers. (UPDATE on earlier: Clemmons turned out not to be inside a house that officers had surrounded most of the night.)

* Sentenced to 5 years for robbery in Pulaski County, Aug. 3, 1989. KC may have robbed/burgled TL's neighbor-TL believes it is a distinct possibility according to his 3rd interview with LE

* Sentenced to 8 years for burglary, theft and probation revocation in Pulaski County, Sept. 9, 1989 See above, and include all of KC's various theft

* Sentenced to an indeterminate amount for aggravated robbery and theft in Pulaski County, Nov. 15, 1989

* Sentenced to 20 years each for burglary and theft of property in Pulaski County, Feb. 23, 1990.

* Sentenced to 6 years for firearm possession in Pulaski County, Nov. 19, 1990. KC had an interest in weapons as well-the household type. There is no way for us to be sure if she ever would have purchased a firearm, they are not exactly in KC's price range.

Tyler said some sentences were concurrent and some consecutive. But the total effect of all these sentences was a sentence of 108 years.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Great trial attornies typically have large, if not massive, egos. They're not only skilled inside the courtroom but are also skilled in dealing with the media, which is really a base requirement to handle a high-profile case today. Moreover, they've become a brand name; e.g., Tom Messerau.

Baez seemingly has a large ego, but, amongst other self imposed obstacles (flub a dub variety), he gives the appearance of being IQ cycle challenged. This case quickly developed into a ratings monster; it's way out of his league.

Narcissism... Not all but many. Litigators mostly. It's what makes 'em fight hard, they hate to lose... it's not so much about the client but about the winning. Litigation is a wonderful place for a narcissist!

(Please know that I am not putting lawyers down by saying this.. I love me a defense attorney- I am sitting here at home typing this because of 'em! I have nothing bad to say about lawyers.. though if ya wanna talk about prosecutors I got lots to say LOL)

Have at me..

 

[rhornsby]

http://www.examiner.com/x-23328-Tru...-cash-it-in-sounds-off-in-exclusive-interview

Do you honestly believe CA poses no threat to society?

Other than revenge, I do not think society gains anything by putting someone like Casey Anthony to death.

And while I believe that if Casey Anthony killed her daughter, she deserves to spend the rest of her life behind bars; I also do not believe that if she were to ever be released, she would prey on other children like a John Couey.

i have blogged about my personal opinion on my website (Denying the Certainty of Death) and will leave that as my answer to any further questions.

But before we even get started, lets not dwell on my personal opinions about the death penalty in this case or in general, because it is a debate with no satisfactory answer to anyone.

 

[Wudge]

ITA. A lot of high-profile attorneys also seem to have wild hair and some hilarious (if not endearing) affectations.

Remember Jackie Chiles from Seinfeld?

There's no place to hide in a courtroom. Trial attorneys are on center stage at all times. Given that truth, competent trial attorneys want all eyes and ears geared to them at much as possible, not the other side.

With the wild hair comment, J. Tony Serra comes to mind. J. Tony represented Rick Tabish in the second Ted Binion murder trial. With great theatre, he impressively worked over Dr. Baden's claim of death by "Burking". He was a truly capitavting and great trial attorney.

As for affectations inside the courtroom, it would be hard to trump Gerry Spence and his fringed deerskin jackets. He's a true master at picking and communicating with jurors who are most likely to relate to whatever he might hold to be exculpatory evidence. No one ever did it better as evidenced by his undeafeted record in criminal cases.

Casey is certainly not a sympathetic defendant. Given the weak circumstantial evidence the SAs have to work with, he would have been a truly superb match to Casey's needs, but I believe he retired a few years ago after successfully defending fellow flamboyant attorney, Geoffrey Fieger, against Federal charges of violating campaign laws.

 

[SURVIVING_INSANITY]

First, I would just say you both could be correct. When it comes to what constitutes enough premeditation, the case law basically leaves it to the trier of fact (jury) if their is some evidence suggesting premeditation. So it sounds like the two of you are having a classic juror debate - not one the case law will settle one way or the other.

As for the evidence you have mentioned, I think it is very strong circumstantial evidence that suggests guilt of something (interesting fact: DNA is actually circumstantial evidence by definition).

Finally, please don't get me started on the manner in which the body was disposed. I just cannot imagine that it was done alone - I PERSONALLY think someone else had to have assisted. But that is just my PERSONAL intuition.

I appreciate your opinion that KC could not have bagged Caylee by herself, but I respectfully disagree. I have absolutely ZERO doubt she could and did do this alone. I understand your opinion because you are not a woman, never carried a child for nine months of pregnancy and then for the 1st (3) years of a child's life. Mother's become super-human during these years. We multitask carrying our children when they are 30-40 lbs. without thinking about it. We just "do it". Lord knows she had plenty of time to do it as well.
Here's a scenario: If she killed her at her house which I believe at this point think she did. She kills Caylee. She immediately lays her on the bed.(or she might have killed her right on the bed) She gets 2 garbage bags. She takes the 1st bag, opens it, pulls it completely over Caylee either starting with the feet/legs or head first, pulls it completely over Caylee, ties the bag. Second bag, same as the first......but that will be even easier as it will slide over the 1st bag. Tie it, and put the bag with Caylee into a flexible laundry basket/tote with handles. Carry it out to her trunk. By the time she dumped precious Caylee, she was reduced to gel and bones, for the most part confined to 2 plastic bags. Much easier to carry and handle for dumping her like a bag of trash. I apologize for the graphic description.

God Bless Caylee!raying:

 

[whats the punch line]

Other than revenge, I do not think society gains anything by putting someone like Casey Anthony to death.

And while I believe that if Casey Anthony killed her daughter, she deserves to spend the rest of her life behind bars; I also do not believe that if she were to ever be released, she would prey on other children like a John Couey.

i have blogged about my personal opinion on my website (Denying the Certainty of Death) and will leave that is my answer to any further questions.

But before we even get started, lets not dwell on my personal opinions about the death penalty in this case or in geneal, because it is a debate with no satisfactory answer to anyone.

I agree, perhaps a threat to her own children, but not to society,
And in this case, any discussion regarding the DP is a fruitless journey. (I do not think it will happen, period,)

Though I am going to persist on the other six counts...I have not given up on that.

 

[cyberborg]

I personally feel that this case has entered a new significant phase with the submission of the motion against RK and the set of 'unconstitutional' motions.

As we move closer to the pre-trial hearing early next year and meander through the Holiday period I sense a re-writing of recent A-history and a re-positioning of KC as a human and a victim too.

There are a LOT of articles and media appearances recently that either directly and indirectly seek to re-tell / better tell / position the Defense story and that of KC while shaking the trees of blogs and forums to test the waters and even the playing field and neutralize or de-fang those pro-prosecution and pro-KC's guilt as a capital offense.

This is a major marketng undertaking never seen before, even for OJ. A major and prolonged media campaign until trial. Calm down, pacify and even, convert the mob. The next phase has begun.

Do you agree?

 

[whats the punch line]

So again, you have allowed me to segue to the other 6 counts, what about those Mr Hornsby?

How is Baez gonna eat those 6 elephants? (4 of them are sworn statements.)

If she admits they are lies does she do time?

 

[logicalgirl]

I personally feel that this case has entered a new significant phase with the submission of the motion against RK and the set of 'unconstitutional' motions.

As we move closer to the pre-trial hearing early next year and meander through the Holiday period I sense a re-writing of recent A-history and a re-positioning of KC as a human and a victim too.

There are a LOT of articles and media appearances recently that either directly and indirectly seek to re-tell / better tell / position the Defense story and that of KC while shaking the trees of blogs and forums to test the waters and even the playing field and neutralize or de-fang those pro-prosecution and pro-KC's guilt as a capital offense.

This is a major marketng undertaking never seen before, even for OJ. A major and prolonged media campaign until trial. Calm down, pacify and even, convert the mob. The next phase has begun.

Do you agree?

Whew - thank you!!! Because lately I've been thinking - what's going on here? Well, not just here, but everywhere this case is being discussed. Way more evidence than against Scott Peterson is now being shrugged at as no biggie. It reminds me of when we tell ourselves something is true for long enough, we start to believe it's true. But that pig's still got lipstick on it!

 

[rhornsby]

I personally feel that this case has entered a new significant phase with the submission of the motion against RK and the set of 'unconstitutional' motions.

As we move closer to the pre-trial hearing early next year and meander through the Holiday period I sense a re-writing of recent A-history and a re-positioning of KC as a human and a victim too.

There are a LOT of articles and media appearances recently that either directly and indirectly seek to re-tell / better tell / position the Defense story and that of KC while shaking the trees of blogs and forums to test the waters and even the playing field and neutralize or de-fang those pro-prosecution and pro-KC's guilt as a capital offense.

This is a major marketng undertaking never seen before, even for OJ. A major and prolonged media campaign until trial. Calm down, pacify and even, convert the mob. The next phase has begun.

Do you agree?

Well, in some respects I think O.J. started from a much better perspective in the PR department. He was a Heisman Trophy winner, television star, and sports broadcaster who crossed racial lines.

As for marketing undertaking, I just think Andrea Lyon comes off as more sincere simply because she believes in what she is saying. Baez and Baden, no so much.

Don't forget, before Lyon got wrapped up with the Baez & Bros. Circus, she was highly respected within mainstream media AND among her colleagues - and to me that is important.

Because I know a lot of media savvy attorneys who get no love from their colleagues, simply because their colleagues no where they truly stand.

Aside from that though, I do agree Lyon is trying to humanize Casey and, in some respects, make her appear as a victim. And that is precisely what I would do if I was involved.

 

[Blaise]

ETA: My feeling on the OJ verdict is that it was not completely about the evidence and the back and forth, it came down to the jury's gut feelings-And to some of them, for example, Mark Fuhrman's comments were a punch in the gut.

Also, 70% of the community where the jury pool resided had a negative experience with the police during the prior 12 months. As best I can tell, there has not been a rash of Orlando law enforcement targeting pretty little white vapid suburban girls.

Blaise

 

[reeseeva]

Well, in some respects I think O.J. started from a much better perspective in the PR department. He was a Heisman Trophy winner, television star, and sports broadcaster who crossed racial lines.

As for marketing undertaking, I just think Andrea Lyon comes off as more sincere simply because she believes in what she is saying. Baez and Baden, no so much.

Don't forget, before Lyon got wrapped up with the Baez & Bros. Circus, she was highly respected within mainstream media AND among her colleagues - and to me that is important.

Because I know a lot of media savvy attorneys who get no love from their colleagues, simply because their colleagues no where they truly stand.

Aside from that though, I do agree Lyon is trying to humanize Casey and, in some respects, make her appear as a victim. And that is precisely what I would do if I was involved.

BBM

I think most people will see right through that feigned drama, and already have in the last Court appearance, as discussed here. It is really pathetic to watch Lyons hovering over KC, whose affect is about as endearing as cement.