Legal Questions for our Verified Lawyers #4

[Dignity4Victims]

I don't practice in Florida, but I would expect early release from probation would require Casey to have met all the conditions of her probation including paying restitution to the state of $200,000+. I would expect probation could even be extended until she pays up especially if the state presents evidence that Casey was getting money - for example, the video where she says she bought her computer with her own money or perhaps if TV producer Scott Sternberg succeeds in selling Casey's story for $500,000 to $750,000 - but Casey didn't send a single dollar to the state towards the restitution she was ordered to pay.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

Great to see you here, Kat! :blowkiss:

BBM - that wasn't part of her probation agreement though, was it?

So you're saying that in order for Casey to be released from probation, she must at least pay back the State of Florida?

TIA!

 

[Dignity4Victims]

Many thanks to AZlawyer for posting the link to Casey's actual probation order.

I was particularly interested in these parts:

"5) You will live and remain at liberty without violating any law. A conviction in a court of law shall not be necessary in order for such a violation to constitute a violation of your probation.
...
12) The Court retains jurisdiction to place you in the Probation and Restitution Center upon recommendation of your Probation Officer without finding of violation of probation.
...
You are hereby placed on notice that the court may at any time rescind or modify any of the conditions of your probation, or extend the period of probation as authorized by law, or may discharge you from further supervision; and that if you violate any of the conditions of your probation, you may be arrested and the Court may revoke your probation and impose any sentence which it might have imposed before placing you on probation."

We know that the IRS has taken certain actions which give rise to the reasonable inference that Casey failed to pay taxes on the first $250,000+ she got from selling the pictures and videos of Caylee. If Casey doesn't make some effort to negotiate a resolution of this indebtedness and the IRS takes the further step of prosecuting Casey for willfull income tax evasion (a felony), IMO she can expect to have her probation revoked.

Similarly, if Casey has the means to begin paying her court-ordered restitution on the false statements convictions but willfully fails to pay what she can afford to per the various sliding scales used by the courts or to set up any kind of payment plan, IMO this may constitute unlawful contempt of the court's order. Consequently, this may result in a violation of her probation even though Casey paid restitution for the fraud/theft/forgery convictions for which she is on probation and the contempt would be based on the failure to pay restitution for completely different convictions.

Bottom line is, she may not get hauled back into jail for failing to pay the $200,000+ restitution, but I don't see her probation ending early unless that gets paid off. Plus, she needs to deal with her income tax issues.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

Sentencing against Casey were withheld on 7 counts, I believe. If she doesn't meet her probation requirements and she is "hauled back to jail", do you believe they will re-instate those 7 charges?

 

[Katprint]

To clarify:

In case #1 re Casey's stealing from Amy via forging Amy's checks that Casey found in Amy's car that Amy graciously lent to Casey, Casey paid a certain amount of restitution to Amy. As I understand it, the current probation results from Casey's convictions on the forgery/theft/fraud charges involving Amy's checkbook. These charges include the 7 counts on which sentencing was withheld (which is completely normal for a 1st time offender.)

In case #2 re Casey lying to law enforcement re what happened to Caylee, the court ordered Casey to pay a certain amount of money to the state for restitution and, IIRC, basically sentenced Casey to time served.

The legal issue is, how does Casey's (willful?) failure to comply with the court order in case #2 affect her ongoing probation in case #1? I do not have the answer to this although I know how I would argue it if I were a prosecutor and I know how I would argue it to the contrary if I represented Casey as a defendant. The real answer is, the court has a great deal of discretion in this situation and can mostly do what it wants to.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

This, I'm almost sure has been answered and discussed ad nauseum, but I'm being lazy, so sorry.
Going back to "sour grapes" about KC's slew of "not guilty" verdicts.
Could the state bring up OTHER charges NOT included in the original trial??
Like, IMO, the glaring fact of the abuse and desecration of a human corpse??

And, since, IIRC, the DT used some sort of visual during the trial about the decomp of ANOTHER person, would the state be able to use the chemicals ID'd in the "Many White Horses" case where she left her child in her trunk, as well?? A lot of the same chemicals of decomp were found there, sans "garbage bag", and those results were included in one of the lab results as comparison.
Along with the "pet burial" ritual, IMO, being used at trial as a similarity of the circumstances of Caylee's remains being found in bags, etc?? Thereby, to prove desecration and hiding body and not reporting "finding" the body?

Again...sorry for going back to beat the dead horse....but, just finding online a FL lawyer answering the question posed by someone else, gave me further pause.

Just figured it best to ask our experts who know the case probably better than the DT...LOL

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

OK...another question...bizarre, though.

I understand the trial ran into millions for taxpayers in the good state of FL, bless their hearts. Having a trial for the above mentioned charges, in my prior post, would cost more money, and the taxpayers would hit the roof
A wacky person is talking about getting a fund set up, managed by a lawyer, and asking people to donate $1 or 2 or even more if they can.
Here comes the bizarre...can this money be donated to the state to offset the cost of a new trial against KC for the abuse, etc charges??
Sounds sooo stupid to me, and most likely illegal...but I just HAD to ask.
I'm not happy with the verdict, but, IMO, this sounds a bit over the top to me...LOL

 

[NavySubMom]

Hi WS Lawyers!

In CM's MOTION FOR RULE TO SHOW CAUSE linked here:

http://www.cfnews13.com/static/articles/images/documents/CASEY-ASHTON-CONTEMPT-1222.pdf

asking Judge Perry to issue an ORDER for Jeff Ashton to show cause why he should not be held in contempt for what he published in his book about the REAL excuse FCA said Caylee died, that GA drowned her in the pool while molesting her,

what is the next action on this, are we waiting for JP to rule on this? will he make a ruling or schedule a hearing? will it simply be based on this order? can JP simply do nothing and ignore this? can he just DENY this Motion outright? or does JP HAVE to take some action on this. It was filed December 22, 2011, in what timeframe would JP usually rule on this?

I am just wondering why this has kind of gone off into the twilight zone? wondering what, if anything, will happen next and about when we can expect it?

Thanks so much to the WS lawyers for taking your time to answer all of our questions!

 

[Aedrys]

I have a question brought about by something Morgan said about the new motion to compel Casey Anthony to talk. He seems to believe the videos affect her 5th amendment rights. She has claimed the 5th, but then these videos came out, and there's more videos and recordings out there. Does that somehow nullify or affect her 5th amendment rights? I mean Terri Horman, in the Kyron Horman case, has been completely silent since she invoked her 5th amendment rights. But I've also seen the lawyers here say the videos won't affect her 5th amendment rights. Why? What is the law on 5th amendment rights, and what would be able to affect those rights? Surely she can't go around giving interviews (if anyone would interview her), but then claim the 5th when it comes to court proceedings, right? Is it the same for these videos? Or is her out claiming that these videos are strictly therapeutic? Or is she busted and might have to talk (it seems she is talking more to an audience than doing therapy)?

 

[bayouland]

Thank you in advance for your time.

See the 12/21/11 entry below. Looks like Casey Anthony filed for another time extension. Since there is no follow up order, would this mean it was denied (per the 11/1/11 order)?


Case Docket
Case Number: 5D11-2357
Final Criminal Judgment and Sentence Notice from Orange County
CASEY MARIE ANTHONY vs. STATE OF FLORIDA
Lower Tribunal Case(s): 08-CF-15606-A

11/01/2011 Order Granting Time Extension To File Record 01/17/2012 ANY FURTHER REQUESTS FOR AN EOT FOR THIS PURPOSE MUST BE ACCOMPANIED BY AFFIDAVIT FROM COURT REPORTER STATING FACTUAL BASIS FOR NEED FOR FURTHER EXTENSION
11/01/2011 RESPONSE Appellant PER 10/28 ORDER
11/02/2011 ORD-Corrected Order OF 11/1 ORDER
11/03/2011 Miscellaneous Order 11/1 RESPONSE ACCEPTED; ROA SHALL BE FILED IN COMPLIANCE W/ COURT'S 11/1 ORDER
12/21/2011 Motion Supplemental Record & Eot For Brief Appellant

 

[AZlawyer]

This, I'm almost sure has been answered and discussed ad nauseum, but I'm being lazy, so sorry.
Going back to "sour grapes" about KC's slew of "not guilty" verdicts.
Could the state bring up OTHER charges NOT included in the original trial??
Like, IMO, the glaring fact of the abuse and desecration of a human corpse??

And, since, IIRC, the DT used some sort of visual during the trial about the decomp of ANOTHER person, would the state be able to use the chemicals ID'd in the "Many White Horses" case where she left her child in her trunk, as well?? A lot of the same chemicals of decomp were found there, sans "garbage bag", and those results were included in one of the lab results as comparison.
Along with the "pet burial" ritual, IMO, being used at trial as a similarity of the circumstances of Caylee's remains being found in bags, etc?? Thereby, to prove desecration and hiding body and not reporting "finding" the body?

Again...sorry for going back to beat the dead horse....but, just finding online a FL lawyer answering the question posed by someone else, gave me further pause.

Just figured it best to ask our experts who know the case probably better than the DT...LOL

OK...another question...bizarre, though.

I understand the trial ran into millions for taxpayers in the good state of FL, bless their hearts. Having a trial for the above mentioned charges, in my prior post, would cost more money, and the taxpayers would hit the roof
A wacky person is talking about getting a fund set up, managed by a lawyer, and asking people to donate $1 or 2 or even more if they can.
Here comes the bizarre...can this money be donated to the state to offset the cost of a new trial against KC for the abuse, etc charges??
Sounds sooo stupid to me, and most likely illegal...but I just HAD to ask.
I'm not happy with the verdict, but, IMO, this sounds a bit over the top to me...LOL

No, the state cannot go after Casey for anything relating to Caylee's death, the cover-up, etc. And I very much doubt that the state is empowered to take donations to prosecute a specific case.

Hi WS Lawyers!

In CM's MOTION FOR RULE TO SHOW CAUSE linked here:

http://www.cfnews13.com/static/articles/images/documents/CASEY-ASHTON-CONTEMPT-1222.pdf

asking Judge Perry to issue an ORDER for Jeff Ashton to show cause why he should not be held in contempt for what he published in his book about the REAL excuse FCA said Caylee died, that GA drowned her in the pool while molesting her,

what is the next action on this, are we waiting for JP to rule on this? will he make a ruling or schedule a hearing? will it simply be based on this order? can JP simply do nothing and ignore this? can he just DENY this Motion outright? or does JP HAVE to take some action on this. It was filed December 22, 2011, in what timeframe would JP usually rule on this?

I am just wondering why this has kind of gone off into the twilight zone? wondering what, if anything, will happen next and about when we can expect it?

Thanks so much to the WS lawyers for taking your time to answer all of our questions!

I assume JA will have the opportunity to respond before a hearing is scheduled. I can't find the rule offhand, but say for example he gets 10 business days plus 3 days because the motion was mailed--then his response would have been due yesterday. But again, I don't know what the actual rule is, and I doubt he missed the deadline. It's possible that CM has to set a hearing date with the judge, and then the response deadline is calculated from that date. Don't know why I can't find the rule...:waitasec: Maybe Katprint can find it?

I have a question brought about by something Morgan said about the new motion to compel Casey Anthony to talk. He seems to believe the videos affect her 5th amendment rights. She has claimed the 5th, but then these videos came out, and there's more videos and recordings out there. Does that somehow nullify or affect her 5th amendment rights? I mean Terri Horman, in the Kyron Horman case, has been completely silent since she invoked her 5th amendment rights. But I've also seen the lawyers here say the videos won't affect her 5th amendment rights. Why? What is the law on 5th amendment rights, and what would be able to affect those rights? Surely she can't go around giving interviews (if anyone would interview her), but then claim the 5th when it comes to court proceedings, right? Is it the same for these videos? Or is her out claiming that these videos are strictly therapeutic? Or is she busted and might have to talk (it seems she is talking more to an audience than doing therapy)?

I don't see how anything on the videos we've seen so far could affect her 5th amendment rights. She seems to be steering clear of any discussion about Caylee, ZG, etc. Obviously the right to remain silent doesn't mean you can't talk about ANYTHING lol.

Thank you in advance for your time.

See the 12/21/11 entry below. Looks like Casey Anthony filed for another time extension. Since there is no follow up order, would this mean it was denied (per the 11/1/11 order)?


Case Docket
Case Number: 5D11-2357
Final Criminal Judgment and Sentence Notice from Orange County
CASEY MARIE ANTHONY vs. STATE OF FLORIDA
Lower Tribunal Case(s): 08-CF-15606-A

11/01/2011 Order Granting Time Extension To File Record 01/17/2012 ANY FURTHER REQUESTS FOR AN EOT FOR THIS PURPOSE MUST BE ACCOMPANIED BY AFFIDAVIT FROM COURT REPORTER STATING FACTUAL BASIS FOR NEED FOR FURTHER EXTENSION
11/01/2011 RESPONSE Appellant PER 10/28 ORDER
11/02/2011 ORD-Corrected Order OF 11/1 ORDER
11/03/2011 Miscellaneous Order 11/1 RESPONSE ACCEPTED; ROA SHALL BE FILED IN COMPLIANCE W/ COURT'S 11/1 ORDER
12/21/2011 Motion Supplemental Record & Eot For Brief Appellant

No, it hasn't been denied. It is still pending.

 

[Katprint]

I assume JA will have the opportunity to respond before a hearing is scheduled. I can't find the rule offhand, but say for example he gets 10 business days plus 3 days because the motion was mailed--then his response would have been due yesterday. But again, I don't know what the actual rule is, and I doubt he missed the deadline. It's possible that CM has to set a hearing date with the judge, and then the response deadline is calculated from that date. Don't know why I can't find the rule...:waitasec: Maybe Katprint can find it?

Why yes, I can. LOL!

http://www.joffelaw.com/state-rules/3-830.html
"3.830. Direct Criminal Contempt
A criminal contempt may be punished summarily if the court saw or heard the conduct constituting the contempt committed in the actual presence of the court. The judgment of guilt of contempt shall include a recital of those facts on which the adjudication of guilt is based. Prior to the adjudication of guilt the judge shall inform the defendant of the accusation against the defendant and inquire as to whether the defendant has any cause to show why he or she should not be adjudged guilty of contempt by the court and sentenced therefor. The defendant shall be given the opportunity to present evidence of excusing or mitigating circumstances. The judgment shall be signed by the judge and entered of record. Sentence shall be pronounced in open court."

http://www.joffelaw.com/state-rules/3-840.html
"3.840. Indirect Criminal Contempt
A criminal contempt, except as provided in rule 3.830 concerning direct contempts, shall be prosecuted in the following manner:
(a) Order to Show Cause. The judge, on the judge’s own motion or on affidavit of any person having knowledge of the facts, may issue and sign an order directed to the defendant, stating the essential facts constituting the criminal contempt charged and requiring the defendant to appear before the court to show cause why the defendant should not be held in contempt of court. The order shall specify the time and place of the hearing, with a reasonable time allowed for preparation of the defense after service of the order on the defendant.
(b) Motions; Answer. The defendant, personally or by counsel, may move to dismiss the order to show cause, move for a statement of particulars, or answer the order by way of explanation or defense. All motions and the answer shall be in writing unless specified otherwise by the judge. A defendant’s omission to file motions or answer shall not be deemed as an admission of guilt of the contempt charged. "
There are also subsections (c), (d), (e), (f) and (g).

IMO, there is no way that "direct contempt" would apply. The conduct complained of did not happen in the actual presence of the court.

The "indirect contempt" procedure looks like virtually anyone can ask the judge to hold the accused contemner in contempt. It is up to the judge to decide whether or not to issue the Order to Show Cause (aka Rule to Show Cause) which would require the accused contemner to show up and defend themself against the contempt charges. If the judge does issue an Order to Show Cause based on the motion/affidavit then that OSC would trigger the filing of any answer/response, not the initiating affidavit.

There are several interesting legal articles discussing "unclean hands" as a defense to contempt. I'm thinking that would be a pretty strong defense if the judge actually issues an OSC re contempt against Ashton. At a gut level, it seems unfair to let Casey's legal team tell a bunch of lies then punish Ashton because he told the truth.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

 

[Katprint]

An even better defense would be, no need for any defense because no OSC re contempt. The judge's response to the defense team's request for a Rule to Show Cause why Ashton should not be held in contempt was to unseal the previously-sealed expert witness deposition transcripts. Wow! Could this possibly be a hint that no Rule to Show Cause will be forthcoming? [/sarcasm]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...-anthony-depositions-20120111,0,4079395.story
"Just when we thought we couldn't learn more about Casey Anthony's life, depositions of two of her doctors unsealed Wednesday reveal either a new depth to her lies or years spent covering up sexual abuse and then coping with her daughter's death.

Explosive accounts of Anthony's life and her version of what happened to Caylee Marie almost four years ago became public when Chief Judge Belvin Perry unsealed the depositions of Dr. William Weitz and Dr. Jeffrey Danziger. ..."

Sometimes it's just better to let sleeping dogs lie. "Let it be, let it be, let it be, yeah, let it be. Whisper words of wisdom: Let it be."

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

 

[Justin Tyme]

If Casey's probation gets revoked would she go to jail or to a Probation and Restitution Center?

 

[Katprint]

If Casey's probation gets revoked would she go to jail or to a Probation and Restitution Center?

Possibly neither. A lot depends on how the probation was violated. I have personally had clients who violated their probation by drug/alcohol use, whose probation was revoked then reinstated. OTOH, if someone is on probation for something like robbery and they commit another robbery, the judge is more likely to revoke their probation and reinstate any suspended sentences.

Katprint
Always only my own opinions

 

[RANCH]

Solace posted this idea on another thread.

The State of florida can appoint a lawyer for Caylee's estate and he could sue KC for wrongful death and that is how that would work. There is always a way. ALWAYS -

Is this a possibility?

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7512144&postcount=867"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Casey Anthony reportedly planning to dump lawyer Jose Baez[/ame]

 

[AZlawyer]

Solace posted this idea on another thread.



Is this a possibility?

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Casey Anthony reportedly planning to dump lawyer Jose Baez

Kind of. In theory, a probate estate could be opened for Caylee and a personal representative could be appointed to bring a wrongful death claim against Casey.

BUT based on the statute (FSA 768.21(6)), there would be no damages available to the estate (i.e., to Caylee). Loss of earnings of the decedent (Caylee) from the date of injury until the date of death? Zero. Funeral expenses due to her death that have become a charge against her estate? Zero. That's it.

 

[Gma Kat]

Kind of. In theory, a probate estate could be opened for Caylee and a personal representative could be appointed to bring a wrongful death claim against Casey.

BUT based on the statute (FSA 768.21(6)), there would be no damages available to the estate (i.e., to Caylee). Loss of earnings of the decedent (Caylee) from the date of injury until the date of death? Zero. Funeral expenses due to her death that have become a charge against her estate? Zero. That's it.

so there's hope? I mean for principals sake?

 

[bayouland]

A general question regarding FCA's appeal. Would the defense be able to introduce information that was not brought forth in trial? For example, the depositions by Dr. Weitz and Danzinger?

Thank you in advance.

 

[AZlawyer]

so there's hope? I mean for principals sake?

I would say no. I doubt any judge would authorize a personal representative to pursue zero damages.

A general question regarding FCA's appeal. Would the defense be able to introduce information that was not brought forth in trial? For example, the depositions by Dr. Weitz and Danzinger?

Thank you in advance.

No, definitely not.

 

[AZlawyer]

Soooo, no one has asked yet, but now that the record on appeal has been served, Casey has 30 days to file her brief with the appellate court. Should be a fun read!

 

[BigFatMommyDog]

Soooo, no one has asked yet, but now that the record on appeal has been served, Casey has 30 days to file her brief with the appellate court. Should be a fun read!

am I correct in thinking that this brief will cite what the DT team believes to be material legal defects a la the judge's rulings?