ullhair:
ullhair:
Okay, here's what was going on; Here is what the Judge was talking about:
When he said that probation was not a sentence, he was referring to a very technical distinction which is contained in the FL Rules of Criminal procedure.
He mentions "Rule 3.700" when he says that probation isn't a sentence.
Which is---RULE 3.700. SENTENCE DEFINED; PRONOUNCEMENT AND ENTRY; SENTENCING JUDGE
(a) Sentence Defined. The term sentence means the pronouncement by the court of the penalty imposed on a
defendant for the offense of which the defendant has been adjudged guilty.
:gavel:
In the Casey case, when Judge Strickland sentenced her on the check charges, the probation part of the whole thing came about by the "Withholding of Adjudication" on some of the counts.
Since there was a withholding of adjudication on the counts which generated the probationary term, there was no actual finding of guilty entered on those particular counts.
But, Rule 3.700 says that a "sentence" is whatever penalty is imposed after a defendant is adjudged "guilty."
Judge Perry is saying that since no guilty finding was entered on whatever counts generated the probation, it follows that the probation would not technically be a sentence.
That must be what this whole "Probation isn't a sentence" thing is about.
If it isn't what he's talking about...:whiteflag:. And of course, the rule also talks about split sentences being part jail and part probation. Under that equation, a sentence is broken into 2 pieces. One piece is incarceration. The other piece of the sentence is...yup....."PROBATION.
SOooooo, the sentence which is not a sentence will, if you read far enough, morph back into a sentence.
The End
That's all I got.
MH :wolf::seeya:
sharing an opinion
But out of the people you listed, only the defendant has constitutional liberty rights at issue, so errors in favor of the defendant are less constitutionally problematic.
raying:
GAIN TIME/GOOD TIME:
And that leads me to the question I have been trying to answer for myself; and I am just not coming up with anything I can sell (to myself).:noooo:
Maybe one of the other lawyers can answer this for me.:help:
Maybe it is soooo simple that I am missing something. :whoosh:
My issue is with the "gain time" I keep hearing about.
Now I call it "good time" but who cares. (It's like a tomato/tomahhhto thing).
We have 2 separate statutory areas which delineate 'good time.":read:
As you can see, one is for county good time and one is for state DOC good time:
The County One:
951.21 Gain-time for good conduct for county prisoners.
(1) Commutation of time for good conduct of county prisoners shall be granted by the board of county commissioners unless, by a majority vote of the board of county commissioners, the board elects to discontinue or revise gain-time policies for good conduct. If the board of commissioners authorizes commutation of time for good conduct, the following deductions shall be made from the term of sentence when no charge of misconduct has been sustained against a county prisoner: up to 5 days per month off the first and second years of the sentence; up to 10 days per month off the third and fourth years of the sentence; up to 15 days per month off the fifth and all succeeding years of the sentence. Where no charge of misconduct is sustained against a county prisoner, the deduction shall be deemed earned and the prisoner shall be entitled to credit for a month as soon as the prisoner has served such time as, when added to the deduction allowable, will equal a month. A county prisoner under two or more cumulative.......
And there is the State One:STATE CORRECTIONAL SYSTEM .......
944.275 Gain-time.
(1) The department is authorized to grant deductions from sentences in the form of gain-time in order to encourage satisfactory prisoner behavior, to provide incentive for prisoners to participate in productive activities, and to reward prisoners who perform outstanding deeds or services.
(2)(a) The department shall establish for each prisoner sentenced to a term of years a maximum sentence expiration date, which shall be the date when the sentence or combined sentences imposed on a prisoner will expire. In establishing this date, the department shall reduce the total time to be served by any time lawfully credited. all be allowed commutation as if they were all one sentence.
It seems to me that no matter which statute one uses to calculate how much good time should come off a sentence, there is a presumption that the sentence is being served by the prisoner. It seems to be implicit that there is a future date when the sentence will end. The sentence is being served; the prisoner is doing actual time.
And then, with a release date in hand, some mathematician, adds up the good time and subtracts it from the sentence so as to move that release date backward in time.:bananapowerslide:
You know there's a but coming: :behind:
So, I have always understood 'good time" to be available only during a period when a sentence is being served.i.e. the prisoner is behind bars only because sentence has been handed down and is being served.
BUT that was not the case with Casey.
Casey was held on bail; She was not serving a sentence since the sentence was imposed and finished, wrapped on the date of the sentencing back in check fraud days.
When she was sentenced for the checks, the day of the sentencing, it was over and done, finis. She did not go back to jail to serve the sentence.
She went back to jail because she was held on bail for the murder charges which were pending.
Until the date of the sentencing for the lying charges, she was not serving a sentence so as to rack up the good time. Same deal as before the sentencing for the fraud/check stuff.
Both times she was held on bail. The point of good time is, and has always been to encourage prisoners to behave a certain way and also to participate in activities, programs, and so forth.
So if one of the other lawyers could explain to me how the "heck" the whole issue of good time/gain time even comes into play........when someone is held on bail and NOT doing a sentence????????
I would be eternally grateful.
In the event that there is no sound argument based in the law, I would accept a whacko arguably plausible theory but I cannot even come up with that.:banghead:
I apologize for the length of this post but it would make even less sense without the statutes cited. I am hoping that somewhere in my question, I have answered other questions
MH
sharing a question and some opinions:wolf:
I should probably add that in 2001, the Florida Atty General's Office issued an advisory opinion which indicated a capping of the good time that's authorized by statute 951 dealing w/ county prisoners.
Interestingly, this opinion mentions that the whole concept of "good time/gain time" applies to the realm of the sentenced prisoner. As has always been my personal understanding, it does not apply to the pre-trial detainee AKA Casey-held-on-bail.
If anyone wants to have a peek at that AG's opinion RE: good time, here is the link:
http://myfloridalegal.com/ago.nsf/Opinions/F6809BB25420DCAB85256A0200674148
Seasoned criminals who know the system and how to work it will clamor to be sentenced. They figure if they are going to do time anyway, they might as well start accumulating good time. They want to get into the various programs available behind bars--those programs which get good time points. But they are well aware that when they are held on bail, while they might get credit for those days held on bail (on a one day ='s one day) basis, they aren't getting good time and they cannot qualify for the "good-time-programs" till they are sentenced. That's all.:seeya:
but here's an AG opinion that sort of, I think, maybe, answers the "85% rule" question. It appears that if a sentence is completely of the "time served" variety, then the 85% rule never kicks in.
Here is something for the lawyers to mull over and throw into the mix. Hope this helps MH. If it doesn't and is not applicable, please alert and I will remove.GAIN TIME/GOOD TIME:
And that leads me to the question I have been trying to answer for myself; and I am just not coming up with anything I can sell (to myself).:noooo:
Maybe one of the other lawyers can answer this for me.:help:
Maybe it is soooo simple that I am missing something. :whoosh:
My issue is with the "gain time" I keep hearing about.
Now I call it "good time" but who cares. (It's like a tomato/tomahhhto thing).
We have 2 separate statutory areas which delineate 'good time.":read:
As you can see, one is for county good time and one is for state DOC good time:
The County One:
951.21 Gain-time for good conduct for county prisoners.—
(1) Commutation of time for good conduct of county prisoners shall be granted by the board of county commissioners unless, by a majority vote of the board of county commissioners, the board elects to discontinue or revise gain-time policies for good conduct. If the board of commissioners authorizes commutation of time for good conduct, the following deductions shall be made from the term of sentence when no charge of misconduct has been sustained against a county prisoner: up to 5 days per month off the first and second years of the sentence; up to 10 days per month off the third and fourth years of the sentence; up to 15 days per month off the fifth and all succeeding years of the sentence. Where no charge of misconduct is sustained against a county prisoner, the deduction shall be deemed earned and the prisoner shall be entitled to credit for a month as soon as the prisoner has served such time as, when added to the deduction allowable, will equal a month. A county prisoner under two or more cumulative.......
And there is the State One:STATE CORRECTIONAL SYSTEM .......
944.275 Gain-time.—
(1) The department is authorized to grant deductions from sentences in the form of gain-time in order to encourage satisfactory prisoner behavior, to provide incentive for prisoners to participate in productive activities, and to reward prisoners who perform outstanding deeds or services.
(2)(a) The department shall establish for each prisoner sentenced to a term of years a “maximum sentence expiration date,” which shall be the date when the sentence or combined sentences imposed on a prisoner will expire. In establishing this date, the department shall reduce the total time to be served by any time lawfully credited. all be allowed commutation as if they were all one sentence.
It seems to me that no matter which statute one uses to calculate how much good time should come off a sentence, there is a presumption that the sentence is being served by the prisoner. It seems to be implicit that there is a future date when the sentence will end. The sentence is being served; the prisoner is doing actual time.
And then, with a release date in hand, some mathematician, adds up the good time and subtracts it from the sentence so as to move that release date backward in time.:bananapowerslide:
You know there's a but coming: :behind:
So, I have always understood 'good time" to be available only during a period when a sentence is being served.i.e. the prisoner is behind bars only because sentence has been handed down and is being served.
BUT that was not the case with Casey.
Casey was held on bail; She was not serving a sentence since the sentence was imposed and finished, wrapped on the date of the sentencing back in check fraud days.
When she was sentenced for the checks, the day of the sentencing, it was over and done, finis. She did not go back to jail to serve the sentence.
She went back to jail because she was held on bail for the murder charges which were pending.
Until the date of the sentencing for the lying charges, she was not serving a sentence so as to rack up the good time. Same deal as before the sentencing for the fraud/check stuff.
Both times she was held on bail. The point of good time is, and has always been to encourage prisoners to behave a certain way and also to participate in activities, programs, and so forth.
So if one of the other lawyers could explain to me how the "heck" the whole issue of good time/gain time even comes into play........when someone is held on bail and NOT doing a sentence????????
I would be eternally grateful.
In the event that there is no sound argument based in the law, I would accept a whacko arguably plausible theory but I cannot even come up with that.:banghead:
I apologize for the length of this post but it would make even less sense without the statutes cited. I am hoping that somewhere in my question, I have answered other questions
MH
sharing a question and some opinions:wolf:
I should probably add that in 2001, the Florida Atty General's Office issued an advisory opinion which indicated a capping of the good time that's authorized by statute 951 dealing w/ county prisoners.
Interestingly, this opinion mentions that the whole concept of "good time/gain time" applies to the realm of the sentenced prisoner. As has always been my personal understanding, it does not apply to the pre-trial detainee AKA Casey-held-on-bail.
If anyone wants to have a peek at that AG's opinion RE: good time, here is the link:
http://myfloridalegal.com/ago.nsf/Opinions/F6809BB25420DCAB85256A0200674148
Seasoned criminals who know the system and how to work it will clamor to be sentenced. They figure if they are going to do time anyway, they might as well start accumulating good time. They want to get into the various programs available behind bars--those programs which get good time points. But they are well aware that when they are held on bail, while they might get credit for those days held on bail (on a one day ='s one day) basis, they aren't getting good time and they cannot qualify for the "good-time-programs" till they are sentenced. That's all.:seeya:
I am out of bounds here so will post this final thought for lawyer consideration. Perhaps we need to consider what the statutes consider the definition of a prisoner to be and that is why we are having trouble finding specific authority as it pertains to pretrial inmates:
