Let's talk about the cat ...

[Wendy101]

I know many people that have pulled the wings off houseflies and legs off spiders... Does that mean they are able to kill a human? i dont think so. imo.

 

[dexter75]

Strange, now that I scratch my head and read this.

1985
Cat is burned and killed, 2 people come forward who " turn on " SA

( NOT, that SA was innocent at all. OR, was he wasted? Does he remember anything from that night? To be a fly on the wall after that night, right? I'm not condoning this. I honestly don't know.)

These two can also VOUCH for one another and the events of the night.

1985, Sheriff's Dept. as stated, was apparently o.k. framing/putting SA away & letting the rapist go free.

2005 TH is burned in a fire

ST and BoD can VOUCH/ALBI one another
( also an anonymous call directing LE to SA property )

Is LE again turning a blind eye to the real perp? Willing to let a bad guy go or even worse, locking up TWO innocent men JUST to convict SA?
Tunnel Vision, again?
Evidence seems suspicious, IMO
Reports and dates seem off, typed AFTER ( long after incident ) it seems.

JMO

Sorry for taking longer than intended. My response has turned out to be quite long. So, I will post in two parts. The first part today, and the second part, when I am finished writing it, to include links, of course.

In any event, onward into the fray!

The big "but" regarding the cat incident is that I originally felt Steven Avery minimized it. Which in turn, plays an extremely important role with regard to his underlying psychology as it relates to the potential of being a killer.

However, after reading this report over, several times over, in fact, there are so many incongruences!

His codefendant, Jerry Yanda, reported the incident. So, he just what? Waltzed into the Two River's PD, to let them know? Because why? And then there's Peter Dassey who helpfully corroborates the incident. And finally, there's Kenneth Petersen, himself.

Petersen was a 33 year old officer with the Manitowoc County Sheriff's department back in 1982, when he was informed by the Two Rivers PD regarding said incident.

And this bit is extremely important. Why?

For starters, the idea that someone killed a cat by burning it to death is understandably horrific. The claim that it was doused in oil and gas makes it an order of magnitude worse. Except. That is all it is. A claim.

This is not to discount that a cat was burned alive, rather question the events as reported by Jerry Yanda (who was conveniently not convicted) & Peter Dassey.

That is, imnsho, Kenneth Petersen's view of Avery as public enemy #1, was cemented the day he learned of the cat incident. This is not to say he was unaware of other Avery legal problems, however, this was the one that cinched it for him.

Now, add to the above, he is also the very man who arrested Avery for the false rape conviction. And, who knew about the 1995 call, as revealed in the Dr. Phil episode (@1:40). And, he testified in the pre-trial hearing that he wasn't really sure Avery was innocent for the rape (Making A Murderer, episode 4 @ 42:26).

This same said man stated to the media, paraphrased, "if they wanted to get rid of Avery, they could have just killed him" (Making a Murderer, episode 4 @ 35:26). And, in that same episode, he stated that Avery would "kill again."

In other words, by 2005, he's totally steamed. Here's a guy, Avery, who not only has his rape conviction overturned but has the audacity to sue the Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department?

Even so, this really isn't about Kenneth Petersen, as a single individual, per se.

Rather, it is to point out that his views epitomize the department he worked for, and eventually became leader, of. And this was a department that long viewed Steven Avery as an anathema to Manitowoc county. So strong were these "shared" beliefs, that they were more than happy to frame an innocent man in 1985, while allowing the real rapist to continue preying upon, and raping, women.

Simply put, I am of the quite strong opinion that Manitowoc County Sheriff Department internalized Avery as the county's pariah. That he ran his cousin (and wife of part-time MCSD deputy), Sandra Morris, off the road, and brandished a shotgun, confirmed their view that the guy was bad news, and worth taking out. Even if it meant framing (literally, ala the framed sketch) him for the 1985 rape that he did not commit.

Now, fast forward to 2005. Having found other supporting documentation, I will cover the 2005 bit in part 2. The key in this part is to consider the long-standing mentality of the MCSD as it pertains to Steven Avery, as a whole.

Whew, that was long. Hopefully I didn't just add to the confusion.

Footnotes:

1. I am sure I read the cat report before. There's just so much out there. Importantly, I was not yet familiar with the various names!

2. For the tl;dr folk. Think of it like this. I am of the very strong opinion that MCSD is cultish when it comes to Steven Avery.
​

 

[dexter75]

Neighbor kids use to do this!

And smear that glow like goo from fire flies all over themselves JUST to "glow"

Poor things!

NO, IMO, they are NOT all able to kill a human.

I know many people that have pulled the wings off houseflies and legs off spiders... Does that mean they are able to kill a human? i dont think so. imo.

 

[dexter75]

Thank you, for this.

I can see how MANY would look at animals as nothing other than a food source, nuisance, rodent, etc.

That being said,
I LOVE them!

In a perfect world, so many things about how food is raised, killed, prepared, would be different.
In a perfect world, BACON or Mozzarella sticks, would be the same as tofu! ( taste and all )

To list the different pets I have now, and the animals we have rescued in the past, no one would believe it anyway
( I'm just some chic behind a screen, half awake anyway )

I could NEVER rationalize animal cruelty & haven't seen that here.

We DO live in a BIG world though, and I try HARD to see things from other's POV.
( Doesn't mean I agree )
JMO

I don't see anyone on here saying it's okay. Not one. Others, and myself have said.... we have experiences where different things happen, everyone brings their own experiences to websleuths... some choose to discuss them, some don't, some agree, some don't, but I don't think you will find one person here that is rationalizing it and anyone here is OKAY with animal cruelty. To imply that .... is not okay IMO

 

[dexter75]

You're right

Wonder if LE ever THOUGHT to do a weapons check, in the past??

They sure don't seem all too bright, from where I sit.
JMO

If LE did have it in for SA for a long time, they totally missed their chance months or even up to a year or 2 earlier -- SA was breaking the law by having a weapon in his possession--specifically that rifle on the wall of his bedroom. It was a weapon he apparently used, but even if he never did use it, just having that gun was a big no-no and as a convicted felon, that alone would have put him back in prison for a good long time. Had cops really had it in for him all they would have to do is a random check for firearms and he would have been busted.

A convicted felon cannot legally possess a firearm and if caught doing so may be charged with a Class G felony. The felon could face up to 10 years in prison and up to $25,000 in fines.
Ref: Wisconsin Statute 941.29

 

[dexter75]

I stand corrected

SA spent 12 years, in prison, for a crime he did not commit.

He was convicted based on DNA in the TH case?

I have and it's a pattern I've witnessed a few times over the years, not only with Avery.

SA spent 12 years behind bars for a crime he didn't commit. The first 6 years were still his to serve for trying to run his cousin off the road and threatening her with a gun. Bad direct evidence put him away for those 12 years (false eye witness testimony). DNA evidence ultimately exonerated him.

In this case there's no eye witness (aside from BD who is not believed); DNA ultimately convicted him.

If Zellner can't prove the various allegations that have been made, SA's not going anywhere and it's over.

 

[missy1974]

We DO live in a BIG world though, and I try HARD to see things from other's POV.
( Doesn't mean I agree )
JMO

What I have seen in here about animals is not even a POV as much as life experiences, and sharing them. Just because we share them, doesn't mean we feel it's okay or that we are rationalizing it.

At the moment I don't have a cat at home, we had 2 a few years ago, and one got out and never came back (in my mind he is living with some old guy that thought he was too cool to let go and he is living the life ;-) and the other, we had to put down and I cried for weeks and I have refused to get another one because I was so heartbroken) I have 8 cats at work that I love and feed and water and in return... they keep the mice out of the building (it's a basically a barn LOL) If I didn't have 2 dachshunds, I would probably have them all at home at this point LOL but unfortunately one of my furbabies has anxiety/seizures and is almost blind now..... and I don't think it's fair to her to bring another animal home ;-) So.. for now... I love my cats during the day, and my dogs at night

 

[dexter75]

It's certainly possible.

RSBM

As much as I agree that they targeted him and had tunnel vision.... for now... I have to disagree with this.

Here is what I think happened.... On the Thursday, November 3rd... when Wiegert called Colborn, it was assigned an incident/reference number (Reference: 2005-00008844). Colborn and then the next day Remiker and Lenk went to see SA. For whatever reason, they closed it or deactivated it... maybe because of Calumet County basically being in charge of the TH being a missing person because of her location. So they did what they were asked and they closed it. Come Saturday, when the RAV4 was found.... the reference number was reactivated (it's in the dispatch phone calls, she says "we reactivated it this morning" or something similar) So I think the subject/incident parts may have been updated as it went along and at some point before he was charged with the murder, he was a suspect in a homicide. JMO and I really don't have the time to listen to the dispatch calls at the moment to cross reference the #.

 

[shadowraiths]

RSBM

As much as I agree that they targeted him and had tunnel vision.... for now... I have to disagree with this.

Here is what I think happened.... On the Thursday, November 3rd... when Wiegert called Colborn, it was assigned an incident/reference number (Reference: 2005-00008844). Colborn and then the next day Remiker and Lenk went to see SA. For whatever reason, they closed it or deactivated it... maybe because of Calumet County basically being in charge of the TH being a missing person because of her location. So they did what they were asked and they closed it. Come Saturday, when the RAV4 was found.... the reference number was reactivated (it's in the dispatch phone calls, she says "we reactivated it this morning" or something similar) So I think the subject/incident parts may have been updated as it went along and at some point before he was charged with the murder, he was a suspect in a homicide. JMO and I really don't have the time to listen to the dispatch calls at the moment to cross reference the #.

BBM. Thank you! This is what I love about Websleuths. So many different eyes/ears/minds that catch various parts that I may have missed. Anyway, wanted to explicitly thank you, outside of just clicking the "thanks" button.

 

[dexter75]

You have the best of both worlds, some would say =)

And yes, agree, I should have worded my post to say " life experience "

I NEVER in a MILLION years would give anyone a free pass to mistreat an animal.

I made a post about the cat when this topic was archived in a basement somewhere lol!!

I think, with age and LIFE EXPERIENCE, in my own life anyway, I have LEARNED to ( how do I word this )

In my 20's and into my 30's I STOOD for what I stood for and there was NO changing my mind. That was that. And I was NASTY and would PROVE my case until I had nothing left. Then, I would PROVE it some more.

Animals are still animals. They are LIVE beings. They have NOTHING to offer but LOVE and affection and loyalty:heartbeat:

I can't imagine my life without them. My 10 year old can name MANY species of snakes, lizards, birds, CATS ( our favorite ) and so on. ( So many, it's not normal to know this much at age 10, lol )

The younger, less experienced ME would have only seen MY view on this matter.

At times, when I find myself thinking of how others DON'T love animals the way I do & I understand that, there ARE times I want to kick my own @$$, trust me!

What I have seen in here about animals is not even a POV as much as life experiences, and sharing them. Just because we share them, doesn't mean we feel it's okay or that we are rationalizing it.

At the moment I don't have a cat at home, we had 2 a few years ago, and one got out and never came back (in my mind he is living with some old guy that thought he was too cool to let go and he is living the life ;-) and the other, we had to put down and I cried for weeks and I have refused to get another one because I was so heartbroken) I have 8 cats at work that I love and feed and water and in return... they keep the mice out of the building (it's a basically a barn LOL) If I didn't have 2 dachshunds, I would probably have them all at home at this point LOL but unfortunately one of my furbabies has anxiety/seizures and is almost blind now..... and I don't think it's fair to her to bring another animal home ;-) So.. for now... I love my cats during the day, and my dogs at night

 

[dexter75]

And the SIX years he DID serve, was for a crime he ADMITTED to, right?

Like the poor cat =( Admitted to this too, I believe.

And that false eyewitness testimony was heavily influenced by Manitowoc County Sheriff's Department employees IMO From saying that sounds like Steve Avery.... to actually drawing (tracing IMO) his mugshot photo by their "sketch artist".

12 years or 18 years.... does it make it any better? 1 day imprisoned for a crime you did not commit due to heavily influenced wrong eye witness testimony is 1 too many IMO I don't care who it is, SA or the Queen of England.

 

[TheDuchess]

I have not seen anyone here rationalize animal cruelty. We have perhaps mentioned different degrees. Just because some of us feel it isn't right to make a jump from animal cruelty to human murder doesn't mean we approve. We may just not feel that one is proof of the other. Nor I believe they can be equated. It's almost as if some feel that anyone who would do that to a cat when they were 19 and drunk would murder a human being 30 years later. FYI there are plenty of serial killers who are very loving to animals.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BigCityAccountant]

Yanda is not a typo. That is his name. You can search him in the Wisconsin court records too, and it's Jerry L. Yanda.

I stand corrected, Mr. Tadych stated that he is cousin of Tom Janda who was married to Barbara Janda(Avery), who is not the same as Jerry Yanda.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

If LE did have it in for SA for a long time, they totally missed their chance months or even up to a year or 2 earlier -- SA was breaking the law by having a weapon in his possession--specifically that rifle on the wall of his bedroom. It was a weapon he apparently used, but even if he never did use it, just having that gun was a big no-no and as a convicted felon, that alone would have put him back in prison for a good long time. Had cops really had it in for him all they would have to do is a random check for firearms and he would have been busted.

A convicted felon cannot legally possess a firearm and if caught doing so may be charged with a Class G felony. The felon could face up to 10 years in prison and up to $25,000 in fines.
Ref: Wisconsin Statute 941.29

I don't think he was out on parole, so I don't think outside of having a search warrant they would have had a reason to find that gun. Unless, of course he voluntarily let them check his house. IMO, if I was him and just exonerated, they would not be coming in my house. But, in fact when TH went missing, he voluntarily let them in.

 

[BigCityAccountant]

I would have to say that if I was MCSO, I would be watching him too. If I read the SA activity log that Shadowraths posted, he wasn't exactly a model citizen. Just since he was exonerated, they following occurred:

• 06/20/2004 DS
• 09/09/2004 DC
• 05/04/2004 Deer Accident
• 08/11/2004 Sexual Contact
• 09/04/2004 Family Fight/DVOA
• 09/05/2004 DVDC
• 09/21/2004 Car Fire/Stolen Veh

 

[Madeleine74]

I don't think he was out on parole, so I don't think outside of having a search warrant they would have had a reason to find that gun. Unless, of course he voluntarily let them check his house. IMO, if I was him and just exonerated, they would not be coming in my house. But, in fact when TH went missing, he voluntarily let them in.

Yes you may be right about that, but since LE went to all that trouble to frame him and plant evidence hither and yon, as alleged by many, surely finding him with a weapon would be easy pickings by comparison. They wouldn't have had to go inside his trailer as he did have that rifle, and use that rifle, as evidenced by shell casings in his garage and probably around his yard. Finding him with a firearm (and hey, no planting necessary) would have guaranteed him a trip back to the big house for the next decade or more, no scurrying around to find a body and his blood to plant, no looking for other people to cooperate and keep quiet, no need to find other agencies to involve, and no pesky involved investigation or trial to contend with.

It was all right there, ripe for the picking, easy peasy. Or... maybe LE wasn't watching him at all, and the allegations of conspiracy and planting are false!?!

 

[Sustained]

Yes you may be right about that, but since LE went to all that trouble to frame him and plant evidence hither and yon, as alleged by many, surely finding him with a weapon would be easy pickings by comparison. They wouldn't have had to go inside his trailer as he did have that rifle, and use that rifle, as evidenced by shell casings in his garage and probably around his yard. Finding him with a firearm (and hey, no planting necessary) would have guaranteed him a trip back to the big house for the next decade or more, no scurrying around to find a body and his blood to plant, no looking for other people to cooperate and keep quiet, no need to find other agencies to involve, and no pesky involved investigation or trial to contend with.

It was all right there, ripe for the picking, easy peasy. Or... maybe LE wasn't watching him at all, and the allegations of conspiracy and planting are false!?!

How do you know that SA used that rifle ? BD is the only one that said so ...

 

[Madeleine74]

It actually doesn't matter if SA used the rifle or not, just possessing a firearm as a convicted felon is a crime, punishable by at least a decade in prison.

However, my belief is he did use that rifle; and certainly on the afternoon TH was brutally murdered with 2 shots to her head, of which one bullet found in his garage did come from that very rifle and did have TH DNA on it.

 

[Sustained]

It actually doesn't matter if SA used the rifle or not, just possessing a firearm as a convicted felon is a crime, punishable by at least a decade in prison.

However, my belief is he did use that rifle; and certainly on the afternoon TH was brutally murdered with 2 shots to her head, of which one bullet found in his garage did come from that very rifle and did have TH DNA on it.

If one believes the bullet fragment was planted, there is zero evidence that the gun found in SA's bedroom was used to kill TH.This is off-topic and nothing to do with the cat.

 

[Hippiemomof5]

I would have to say that if I was MCSO, I would be watching him too. If I read the SA activity log that Shadowraths posted, he wasn't exactly a model citizen. Just since he was exonerated, they following occurred:

• 06/20/2004 DS
• 09/09/2004 DC
• 05/04/2004 Deer Accident
• 08/11/2004 Sexual Contact
• 09/04/2004 Family Fight/DVOA
• 09/05/2004 DVDC
• 09/21/2004 Car Fire/Stolen Veh

Do you have a link for this info? I've been wanting to look into his "troubles" after exoneration but haven't gotten anywhere. I'm curious if this is all of it and more info on each incident. I know he got into some DV trouble with Jodi. It seems odd that all of his troubles in two years "free" were in a three month period? I'm not saying he didn't do them, but it would be a lot more troubling if it was two years of consistent trouble. Or not. I'm not sure yet what I think. lol