Lies point us to the truth #3

[FergusMcDuck]

McDuck,
Suspects, who are they? There is no evidence of an intruder.

There is foreign DNA in the victim's blood, in her underwear.

I would suspect, RDI.

I think that's a different categorization altogether, focusing on whodunnit rather than howtosolveit. People say things like "this is not a DNA case", so I have to wonder what type of case it actually is.

JonBenet Ramsey's 'disturbed' brother 'smeared her Christmas presents with poo' amid claims HE killed her

THE brother of murdered child beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey smeared her Christmas presents with poo in the months leading up to her death, investigators have claimed. Sleuths investigating the death…

www.thesun.co.uk

I was hoping for something better than garbage from a tabloid. And if you read that garbage article from a garbage tabloid, you'll see that it is only gossip.

BR getting a bike for Christmas. BR being asleep when the 911 call was made.

If you read the interview, which was more than a year after the murder, John does say he's not certain about the bike situation. Either way, how is it related to the crime?

Burke being asleep was not a lie. They believed he was asleep until they found out later that he was awake in bed, pretending to be asleep.

Did BR get a bike for Christmas? What was JB actually dressed in when put to bed?

First question: unclear and irrelevant. Second question: white Gap shirt with a star, longjohns (handed down from Burke). That's what the Ramseys said she wore to bed (so the same outfit she wore to the Whites, except the black velvet pants had been switched out with the longjohns), and it is what she was found in. I haven't seen another version from them.

How do you know that exactly? Are you one of them?

Nah, it's just what seems logical to me after having read their interviews. And generally people don't remember everything, but we still don't find the need to coin ridiculous terms for it.

The Killing of Jonbenet: Her Father Speaks (2016)

I can't find a way to view this right now. What were John's words, exactly?

Keep telling yourself this.

When did the family of a murder victim cease to be victims themselves?

Hum:

Yes, the DNA on the cigarette butts can't give us the identity on its own. It can give us a full profile of UM1, but we already know he isn't in CODIS from the partial profile. What the DNA and full profile can do is provide more material for genetic genealogy, which will be the actual way of tracking down the killer.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
Yes, he does. No offense, reminds me of King Charles. The moment the Prince of Wales pledges: "I, William, Prince of Wales, pledge my loyalty to you, and faith and truth I will bear unto you, as your liege man of life and limb. So help me God.” Reading from a card instead of memorizing his lines. Then King Charles III looks up at him and thanks him? The kings expression speaks volumes here. Charles has pledged to serve instead of others serving him. Tell that to the guy that irons his shoe laces. Days of reckoning are to come.


Yes, JR had to have had touch dna all over JB. Where are those results? And I can not think for the life of me why BR touch dna should have been on the top and bottom of the Barbie night gown unless he was changing her cloths. What is a logical explanation for ‘why’ he would be doing this, ever?


Yes, thank you. I agree with ST except for one detail. I believe BDI and the folks covered it up. Yet again, reminds me of the spare.

Rain on my Parade,

Tell that to the guy that irons his shoe laces. Days of reckoning are to come.

How about the guy that squeezes his toothpaste for him? It is a good example of what happens to european monarchies as they slide into dissolution and veniality, i.e. commonly referred to as Ruritarian.
Ruritania - Wikipedia

Reading from a card instead of memorizing his lines.

Everyone does it these days, politicians, influencers, newsreaders, they all have phones or sheets of serious looking A4 on the table in front of them, which they surreptitiously refer to.

What had me laughing was the bishops holding the book open for HM to read from and themselves to quote from, most of it was plain nonsense, Divinity of Kings hereby granted to you by the Lord above, yada yada.

Did you notice all the bishops were wearing women's clothing, gowns and expensive robes, which would not have looked out of place on the catwalk?

Then there was their speech, Received Pronunciation with a high pitched private school accent, in the background was the medieval music which sounded particularly orgasmic in tone.

Yes, JR had to have had touch dna all over JB. Where are those results? And I can not think for the life of me why BR touch dna should have been on the top and bottom of the Barbie night gown unless he was changing her cloths. What is a logical explanation for ‘why’ he would be doing this, ever?

Yes, the Ramsey's would claim cross-transfer of course, but changing her clothes is the more likely. This is why knowing if there is any of BR's touch-dna on the size-12s matter, obviously not a smoking gun more a red flag.

If you know the case well enough then asking why the BPD detectives failed to do the expected follow up across various lines of enquiry, e.g. fecally soiled pajama bottoms, were they sent to the DNA Lab for testing, etc? The only answer has to be is that the Colorado Child Protection Statutes determined where they looked?

They had already leveled True Bills at the parents stating Child Abuse and Assisting an Offender, etc. So it's not as if they wished to avoid implicating the parents?

Yes, thank you. I agree with ST except for one detail. I believe BDI and the folks covered it up. Yet again, reminds me of the spare.

Sure, I agree, but was ST cashing out with his PDI theory, rendered in print and published after some redactions?

I reckon the case is BDI, with BR being influenced by the pageant culture and the sleepovers with his buddies, along with whether Kolar's dysfunctional sexual behaviour attribution was also a major factor?

p.s. The underwear DNA was degraded as it was a partial profile and required additional testing to make it complete.

It might even represent a Chimera if mistakes or testing omissions occurred to elevate it to the CODIS entry standard.

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

There is foreign DNA in the victim's blood, in her underwear.

McDuck,
That could have come from the manufacturing plant. The touch dna could have come from the bloomies themselves.

I think that's a different categorization altogether, focusing on whodunnit rather than howtosolveit. People say things like "this is not a DNA case", so I have to wonder what type of case it actually is.

We know who dunnit; just not exactly who did what. We are all working here to put together the howtosolveit. It’s a homicide case.

I was hoping for something better than garbage from a tabloid. And if you read that garbage article from a garbage tabloid, you'll see that it is only gossip.

Will the FBI do? Burke Ramsey’s disturbing behavior before and after JonBenet’s murder point to him as being responsible. FBI special agent Jim Clemente said, “Burke had a history of scatological problems” (CBS Real Crime). Burke showed these problems by leaving excrement around the Ramsey house. According to the Ramsey’s former housekeeper, Linda Hoffman Pugh, Burke was known to leave feces specifically in JonBenet’s bed and to spread it on walls in the home. (Reynolds). When crime scene technicians visited Jon Benet’s bedroom after sealing it off, they apparently found “feces smeared on a box of candy” she had gotten for Christmas” (Reynolds). This abnormal behavior suggests that Burke not only had mental issues, but he also may have had jealousy issues towards his sister.

If you read the interview, which was more than a year after the murder, John does say he's not certain about the bike situation. Either way, how is it related to the crime?

BR getting a bike for Christmas is a big deal in this case. Somehow it disappeared Christmas night.

Burke being asleep was not a lie. They believed he was asleep until they found out later that he was awake in bed, pretending to be asleep.

BR states his mom came into his room turning on and off the lights and saying “where is my baby“. According to BR she was going psycho.

First question: unclear and irrelevant. Second question: white Gap shirt with a star, longjohns (handed down from Burke). That's what the Ramseys said she wore to bed (so the same outfit she wore to the Whites, except the black velvet pants had been switched out with the longjohns), and it is what she was found in. I haven't seen another version from them.

1st question was addressed in previous quote. 2nd question: PR initially stated she put JB to bed in her red turtleneck sweater.

I can't find a way to view this right now. What were John's words, exactly?

In the A&E documentary, JonBenet's father John Ramsey gives a new interviewabout the investigation into his family and how the media's influence on public opinion affected their lives. "We absolutely felt like we were the victim of a lynch mob," John Ramsey said of the experience.

Yes, the DNA on the cigarette butts can't give us the identity on its own. It can give us a full profile of UM1, but we already know he isn't in CODIS from the partial profile. What the DNA and full profile can do is provide more material for genetic genealogy, which will be the actual way of tracking down the killer.

What makes this interesting is that now the dna can give us a complete profile of the killer. Basically a photograph. Down the the color of eyes and hair. Where is this picture?

 

[Rain on my Parade]

How about the guy that squeezes his toothpaste for him? It is a good example of what happens to european monarchies as they slide into dissolution and veniality, i.e. commonly referred to as Ruritarian.
Ruritania - Wikipedia

UKGuy,
Your comment made me think immediately about Donald Trump. His toothpaste was squeezed.

Did you notice all the bishops were wearing women's clothing, gowns and expensive robes, which would not have looked out of place on the catwalk?

You have a great sense of humor. Your comment reminded of the Met Gala this year. All the attention to detail that went into making those robes was a bit extravagant, considering he served quiche.

Then there was their speech, Received Pronunciation with a high pitched private school accent, in the background was the medieval music which sounded particularly orgasmic in tone.

It all seemed rather boring to me. Which is strange because that is exactly what HRH said before being able to leave his coach upon entering the church. It did appear to me that the clergy were rolling their eyes at HRH. Jezz, he was taking an oath to be head of their church. The Queen consort looked absolutely terrified.

Yes, the Ramsey's would claim cross-transfer of course, but changing her clothes is the more likely. This is why knowing if there is any of BR's touch-dna on the size-12s matter, obviously not a smoking gun more a red flag.

Interior and exterior of bottom front of nightgown, PR and BR cannot be excluded. If BR touch dna was found on the size-12s then I would say it was a smoking gun. Again, there is no reasonable explanation for the presence of such unless they were involved!

If you know the case well enough then asking why the BPD detectives failed to do the expected follow up across various lines of enquiry, e.g. fecally soiled pajama bottoms, were they sent to the DNA Lab for testing, etc? The only answer has to be is that the Colorado Child Protection Statutes determined where they looked?

Oh this is very good! Of coarse you are correct!

Sure, I agree, but was ST cashing out with his PDI theory, rendered in print and published after some redactions?

Could have been.

I reckon the case is BDI, with BR being influenced by the pageant culture and the sleepovers with his buddies, along with whether Kolar's dysfunctional sexual behaviour attribution was also a major factor?

Not to mention BR anger management issues.

p.s. The underwear DNA was degraded as it was a partial profile and required additional testing to make it complete.

It might even represent a Chimera if mistakes or testing omissions occurred to elevate it to the CODIS entry standard.

Thank goodness I’m not off my rocker!

 

[FergusMcDuck]

McDuck,
That could have come from the manufacturing plant. The touch dna could have come from the bloomies themselves.

No, it could not. First of all, the examples of DNA traces within underwear never exceeded a tenth of the DNA for UM1, and unlike UM1, that DNA was degraded. And even more importantly, the source of the DNA for UM1 was a bodily fluid, while the traces on the longjohns were touch DNA. Two different sources of DNA, making any claim to contamination baseless.

We know who dunnit; just not exactly who did what. We are all working here to put together the howtosolveit. It’s a homicide case.

Yes, this reasoning is precisely the problem. No one has solved the case, yet the BPD and others have already decided who the killer was. This is the reason this case (and so many like it) was botched, and remains so to this day. Arrogant LEOs who value their intuition over actual evidence.

Will the FBI do? Burke Ramsey’s disturbing behavior before and after JonBenet’s murder point to him as being responsible. FBI special agent Jim Clemente said, “Burke had a history of scatological problems” (CBS Real Crime).

The same Clemente who embarrased himself in the CBS documentary, that they had to settle with Burke because of how defamatory it was? Anyway, it's former FBI special agent. The history amounted to some (alleged) smearing three years before the murder, while his mother was deathly ill from cancer.

Burke showed these problems by leaving excrement around the Ramsey house. According to the Ramsey’s former housekeeper, Linda Hoffman Pugh, Burke was known to leave feces specifically in JonBenet’s bed and to spread it on walls in the home. (Reynolds).

It took me a while before I realized who "Reynolds" was. The writer of the Sun article above. My god.

Even in that article, it doesn't say what you say:

They cited the evidence of a housekeeper who said excrement the size of a grapefruit was once smeared on the young girl's bed sheets.

Linda Hoffman-Pugh said: "After they sealed off JonBenet's room, the crime scene technicians went through it, they apparently found faeces smeared on a box of candy she had got for Christmas."

At no point did Hoffman-Pugh say that Burke left the feces in the bed.

When crime scene technicians visited Jon Benet’s bedroom after sealing it off, they apparently found “feces smeared on a box of candy” she had gotten for Christmas” (Reynolds).

A box which was apparently never tested, nor collected as evidence. And the basis for its existence appears to be gossip from Linda Hoffman-Pugh: "they apparently found".

This abnormal behavior suggests that Burke not only had mental issues, but he also may have had jealousy issues towards his sister.

Or that people around the case liked to gossip.

BR getting a bike for Christmas is a big deal in this case. Somehow it disappeared Christmas night.

Wait, what bike disappeared? What's the source for that? And again, how would the bike be a big deal in this case? Is there any indication that the bike was involved in the murder?

BR states his mom came into his room turning on and off the lights and saying “where is my baby“. According to BR she was going psycho.

And he pretended to be asleep, so his parents thought he was asleep and told the police that. At no point did they lie.

1st question was addressed in previous quote. 2nd question: PR initially stated she put JB to bed in her red turtleneck sweater.

The only source for that is the rambling, error-riddled report by officer French, well in over his head. Quite frankly, it falls on its own absurdity. JonBenet was wearing the white Gap shirt to the White party (and the police have pictures, so they know she wore it), and was found dead in it. According to her parents (whenever we hear from them directly) they let her sleep in the white shirt while switching out her pants for a pair of longjohns. There is no earthly reason to change a sleeping child into a different piece of daywear when putting her to bed, a turtleneck in particular.

The reason this gets harped on is that a desperate Steve Thomas latched onto the turtleneck (found balled up in her room) having been soaked with urine during bedwetting, despite never testing it for urine or even checking if it was wet. Anyway, it's easy enough to understand why French misunderstood (like he did about the reading). Very likely, he never imagined those details would be given that amount of importance.

In the A&E documentary, JonBenet's father John Ramsey gives a new interviewabout the investigation into his family and how the media's influence on public opinion affected their lives. "We absolutely felt like we were the victim of a lynch mob," John Ramsey said of the experience.

But that wasn't what I asked about. You said "Insisting all the while (these past 26 years) that it was not JB that was the victim here." I asked where they said JonBenet wasn't a victim. Again, where did they say that?

What makes this interesting is that now the dna can give us a complete profile of the killer. Basically a photograph. Down the the color of eyes and hair. Where is this picture?

That's up to the BPD now. Sadly, they appear to have no interest in doing the work.

 

[UKGuy]

Rain on my Parade,
Some folks do not know what they are talking about.

Some quotes for your delectation:

Holly Smith remembers walking up the steps to the Ramsey home: the big candy canes more jarring than festive considering the circumstances. The house was lavishly decorated. Smith recalls, "It was big and it was meandering and it was schmanzy fancy." It was the third day of the investigation into the murder of JonBenet Ramsey. Smith was head of the Boulder County Sexual Abuse team and has been called into the investigation, as she says, "to consult about some of the dynamics and some of the things people suspected might be going on with this case."

She started, as always, with a visit to the child’s bedroom. "That's a really important piece of getting a real feel for a family," Smith explains. With portfolio pictures galore and closets full of JonBenet’s elaborate pageant outfits, Smith says she had a hard time getting a feel for who the little girl really was, even in her bedroom. She recalls, "I just had a sense the type of decor in her bedroom was not really a child's decor." One poignant find that she does recall was a red satin box with what looked like JonBenet’s secret stash of candy.

She found something else in the room, however, which raised an immediate red flag. Smith says most of the panties in JonBenet’s dresser drawers had been soiled with fecal material. "There is this dynamic of children that have been sexually abused sometimes soiling themselves or urinating in their beds to keep someone who is hurting them at bay," explains Smith. JonBenet also had a history of bedwetting. While Smith points out there could be innocent explanations, this was the kind of information that raised questions. "It's very different for every child, but when you have a child that's had this problem and it's pretty chronic for that child, and in addition you know some sort of physical evidence or trauma or an allegation, you put all those little pieces together and it just goes in your head," she says.

From Foreign Faction: Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet? by A. James Kolar; pages 367-70:

"I had reviewed an investigator’s report that documented a 1997 interview with former Ramsey nanny – housekeeper Geraldine Vodicka, who stated that Burke had smeared feces on the walls of a bathroom during his mother’s first bout with cancer. She told investigators that Nedra Paugh, who was visiting the Ramsey home at the time, had directed her to clean up the mess.

There were other police reports in the files that documented what I thought could be viewed as related behavior. CSIs had written about finding a pair of pajama bottoms in JonBenét’s bedroom that contained fecal material. They were too big for her and were thought to belong to Burke.

Additionally, a box of candy located in her bedroom had also been observed to be smeared with feces. Both of these discoveries had been made during the processing of the crime scene during the execution of search warrants following the discovery of JonBenét’s body. "

The discrepancy between Kolars and Holly Smith's account is that her version was redacted along with her biography, since she was pursuing a domestic perspective on the case, so she was sidelined!

On Dr Phil we have Burke saying:

I remember peeking down and seeing an electric train. I was super excited, he recalled. I think she got a big doll house, we both got bikes.

"We both got bikes", but only two appear in JonBenet's early Christmas morning photo, where she is holding her arms up in the air, both are female bikes.

BTW: Who took the photos?

Patsy purchased Burke's bike from University Bicycles downtown Boulder, the week before Christmas.

Was it BlueCrab who speculated that after visiting the Stine's, DS returned with BR to the house, but had to leave later on Burke's bike, due to JonBenet being injured?
.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
Your comment made me think immediately about Donald Trump. His toothpaste was squeezed.


You have a great sense of humor. Your comment reminded of the Met Gala this year. All the attention to detail that went into making those robes was a bit extravagant, considering he served quiche.


It all seemed rather boring to me. Which is strange because that is exactly what HRH said before being able to leave his coach upon entering the church. It did appear to me that the clergy were rolling their eyes at HRH. Jezz, he was taking an oath to be head of their church. The Queen consort looked absolutely terrified.


Interior and exterior of bottom front of nightgown, PR and BR cannot be excluded. If BR touch dna was found on the size-12s then I would say it was a smoking gun. Again, there is no reasonable explanation for the presence of such unless they were involved!


Oh this is very good! Of coarse you are correct!


Could have been.


Not to mention BR anger management issues.


Thank goodness I’m not off my rocker!

Rain on my Parade,

You have a great sense of humor. Your comment reminded of the Met Gala this year. All the attention to detail that went into making those robes was a bit extravagant, considering he served quiche.

Some of the robes cost thousands of pounds sterling. Some wag once commented "One of the perks of belonging to the Church of England Clergy, is that you are allowed to crossdress regularly in public." Feminists claim that the clerical dress was copied from ancient Egypt, where women allegedly headed religious gatherings?

It all seemed rather boring to me.

Very predictable, old guy is repeatedly told The Lord wishes to infuse him with divinity. Just read the Good Book here claims the Bishop.

Not to mention BR anger management issues.

Yes, kind of plays into the BR whacked JonBenet in anger theory?

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Was it BlueCrab who speculated that after visiting the Stine's, DS returned with BR to the house, but had to leave later on Burke's bike, due to JonBenet being injured?

UKGuy,
I don’t know about BlueCrab speculation but I have speculated that. There has to be a good reason why the R’s would lie initially about BR getting a bike for Christmas and then it’s gone the day after.

Some of the robes cost thousands of pounds sterling.

Exactly my point. We are all going through hard times. Yet, there are some privileged few. I can understand why they want to demolish the monarchy. Queen Elizabeth II was a great monarch; that has ended. What is left is spoiled.

Yes, kind of plays into the BR whacked JonBenet in anger theory?

What happened to JB that night had to be an anger issue.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Some folks do not know what they are talking about.

UKGuy,
Yep, arguing with a fence post; I think of it as.

The discrepancy between Kolars and Holly Smith's account is that her version was redacted along with her biography, since she was pursuing a domestic perspective on the case, so she was sidelined!

Never the less, it doesn’t change the facts. BR had issues. All kinds.

BTW: Who took the photos?

Patsy purchased Burke's bike from University Bicycles downtown Boulder, the week before Christmas.

I would say JR took the photos.

And yes, those of us that have studied this case from day one know that PR bought bikes for JB, BR and her self for Christmas. Boulder is a huge bicycling community. On our visits, my son and I stopped at an outdoor bar/food truck please to eat. They had the game corn hole. People arrived/departed threw some bushes on the backside continuously on bikes. People riding bikes all over town!

I believe I will stick with the BR didn’t get a bike for Christmas it was supposed to be for his 10th birthday. Next thing you know he does get a bike for Christmas and there are more gifts in the wine cellar!

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
Yep, arguing with a fence post; I think of it as.


Never the less, it doesn’t change the facts. BR had issues. All kinds.


I would say JR took the photos.

And yes, those of us that have studied this case from day one know that PR bought bikes for JB, BR and her self for Christmas. Boulder is a huge bicycling community. On our visits, my son and I stopped at an outdoor bar/food truck please to eat. They had the game corn hole. People arrived/departed threw some bushes on the backside continuously on bikes. People riding bikes all over town!

I believe I will stick with the BR didn’t get a bike for Christmas it was supposed to be for his 10th birthday. Next thing you know he does get a bike for Christmas and there are more gifts in the wine cellar!

Rain on my Parade,

I don’t know about BlueCrab speculation but I have speculated that. There has to be a good reason why the R’s would lie initially about BR getting a bike for Christmas and then it’s gone the day after.

Yes, where did BR's bike go, no mention of it in the search logs? Why would the Stines want to be associated with the Ramsey's, never mind take up employment with them?

Whut, your daughters been murdered, and you want to stay with me, yeah thats fine come on over. Just tell the media to go away, duh!

I believe I will stick with the BR didn’t get a bike for Christmas it was supposed to be for his 10th birthday.

So where was it stored? This birthday story might be a cover for moving stuff about. Anyway Burke says we both got bikes. so why was there just two visible in the Christmas photo?

The Ramsey's were millionares they could just phone any store and have stuff delivered the next day.

Next thing you know he does get a bike for Christmas and there are more gifts in the wine cellar!

Just another part of the Ramsey narrative that does not make any sense. I reckon the stuff in the wine-cellar has been dumped there alike JonBenet, with a back-story invented on the hoof, including a ransom note to explain away JonBenet being in the WC.

Remember JR to Lou Smit: "Patsy did not know about the gifts in the wine-cellar". JR said that, later PR contradicted him!

Yep, arguing with a fence post; I think of it as.

Sure, always a sign your not having a debate. Give them the Plank of the Week award.

Never the less, it doesn’t change the facts. BR had issues. All kinds.

Sure, and of course, courtesy of Holly Smith and James Kolar who both cite the red satin box, with Kolar saying it was fecally smeared.

This is the big question, i.e. how bad was BR's dysfunction, was it ADHD, full spectrum disorder, or some kind of OCD fetish?

Pity Kolar offered no descriptive details, just vague medicalized terminology.

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,

Yes, where did BR's bike go, no mention of it in the search logs? Why would the Stines want to be associated with the Ramsey's, never mind take up employment with them?

Whut, your daughters been murdered, and you want to stay with me, yeah thats fine come on over. Just tell the media to go away, duh!


So where was it stored? This birthday story might be a cover for moving stuff about. Anyway Burke says we both got bikes. so why was there just two visible in the Christmas photo?

The Ramsey's were millionares they could just phone any store and have stuff delivered the next day.


Just another part of the Ramsey narrative that does not make any sense. I reckon the stuff in the wine-cellar has been dumped there alike JonBenet, with a back-story invented on the hoof, including a ransom note to explain away JonBenet being in the WC.

Remember JR to Lou Smit: "Patsy did not know about the gifts in the wine-cellar". JR said that, later PR contradicted him!


Sure, always a sign your not having a debate. Give them the Plank of the Week award.


Sure, and of course, courtesy of Holly Smith and James Kolar who both cite the red satin box, with Kolar saying it was fecally smeared.

This is the big question, i.e. how bad was BR's dysfunction, was it ADHD, full spectrum disorder, or some kind of OCD fetish?

Pity Kolar offered no descriptive details, just vague medicalized terminology.

.

UKGuy,
What do you believe happened that night?

I am sure Kolar couldn’t say much about BR; considering all the evidence.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
What do you believe happened that night?

I am sure Kolar couldn’t say much about BR; considering all the evidence.

Rain on my Parade,

What do you believe happened that night?

Looks like someone sexually assaulted JonBenet, then either whacked her on the head or/and choked her? Followed up with really amateurish, child-like staging.

So it appears to be a brother on sister assault, where BR goes postal on JonBenet, most likely not realizing the consequences until it was too late?

One unknown is, was DS present? His presence might explain wherever BR's bike ended up?

Yet if he was, why would Susan Stine be in any hurry to report BR's conversation with DS, unless she thought DS could be dragged into the case and blamed in some manner for collaborating with BR in JonBenet's death?

Also I'm assuming DS's touch-dna was NOT found anywhere on JonBenet or her clothing, just another reminder why releasing all the dna test results would clear a few things up.

So basically I reckon much of the case can be explained away as brother on sister abuse, most of the staging is transparent, except that of the parents.

Given the children's dysfunctional upbringing and their attendant problems with toileting, it seems BR may have developed some form of fetish in relation to faeces?

This might be incidental to the death of JonBenet?

The issuing of the True Bills to both parents, citing child neglect and assisting an offender, suggests the GJ knew that the parents had prior warning that JonBenet was vulnerable, but took no action?

Also in the quotes from Coroner Meyer's verbatim autopsy remarks, his observation that JonBenet's vaginal injury was consistent with DIGITAL penetration, might point more towards another child rather than an adult?

12-29-1996 Search Warrant for 755 15th Street, Excerpt

Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that she witnessed the autopsy of JonBenet Ramsey which was conducted by Dr. John Meyer on December 27, 1996. Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that she observed Dr. Meyer examine the vaginal area of the victim and heard him state that the victim had received an injury constant with digital penetration of her vagina. Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that Dr. Meyer told her that it was his opinion that the victim had been subjected to sexual contact. For further details on the autopsy see the attached document entitled Addendum To Search Warrant.

So most of the evidence, including those fecally soiled pajama bottoms, can simply be explained as the result of a dysfunctional family with brother on sister abuse taking place.

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,

Looks like someone sexually assaulted JonBenet, then either whacked her on the head or/and choked her? Followed up with really amateurish, child-like staging.

So it appears to be a brother on sister assault, where BR goes postal on JonBenet, most likely not realizing the consequences until it was too late?

One unknown is, was DS present? His presence might explain wherever BR's bike ended up?

Yet if he was, why would Susan Stine be in any hurry to report BR's conversation with DS, unless she thought DS could be dragged into the case and blamed in some manner for collaborating with BR in JonBenet's death?

Also I'm assuming DS's touch-dna was NOT found anywhere on JonBenet or her clothing, just another reminder why releasing all the dna test results would clear a few things up.

So basically I reckon much of the case can be explained away as brother on sister abuse, most of the staging is transparent, except that of the parents.

Given the children's dysfunctional upbringing and their attendant problems with toileting, it seems BR may have developed some form of fetish in relation to faeces?

This might be incidental to the death of JonBenet?

The issuing of the True Bills to both parents, citing child neglect and assisting an offender, suggests the GJ knew that the parents had prior warning that JonBenet was vulnerable, but took no action?

Also in the quotes from Coroner Meyer's verbatim autopsy remarks, his observation that JonBenet's vaginal injury was consistent with DIGITAL penetration, might point more towards another child rather than an adult?



So most of the evidence, including those fecally soiled pajama bottoms, can simply be explained as the result of a dysfunctional family with brother on sister abuse taking place

UKGuy,
I completely agree with you.

I believe he strangled JB first as it has been attested that there are half moon shapes above the ligature. Had JB been struck on the head first this would have rendered her unconscious. Therefore strangulation came first. Then the head blow. BR had to have taken her quietly down to the basement, took out his knife as to threaten her. Otherwise, how did he know these details? His Swiss Army knife was found within feet of JB, as was his hi tec boot prints. Also there was a wire found close to the garrote that was in the Boy Scout manual as to how to tie knots with it.
As for the marks found on JB back and face Kolar and Cynic state thus:

Keep in mind that the autopsy report speaks of abrasions; there is no reference to burns.

Kolar used a female subject to test his theory
One of my female officers, Christine Sandoval, volunteered to be a beta tester
[snip]
The pins of the track left red marks when sufficient pressure was applied, and I suspected that the twisting motion of the twin outside rails could have been responsible for the appearance of an abrasion, especially when considering that the target area was the soft skin of a 6-year-old girls back.
To you”.Foreign Faction, Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet, James Kolar, page 385 386

It would make sense that BR did this in order to see if JB was going to wake up and also as another means of torture.

BR bike? Yes, it disappears Christmas night. BR hasn’t been told to lie about getting a bike so he sticks to the truth. Just like JB arriving home that night and walking up the stairs ahead of PR. Which makes it obvious he was told to go to his room, pretend to be asleep and not come out. Yet he does come out when PR places the 911 call and he was sternly told “We aren’t talking to you”. If was just a few steps down to stand in the kitchen.
I believe it wasn’t one thing that made BR lose it that night but a building up of things. Much like when he was told that JB was now in heaven he started “sobbing and building up to a cry”?

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
I completely agree with you.

I believe he strangled JB first as it has been attested that there are half moon shapes above the ligature. Had JB been struck on the head first this would have rendered her unconscious. Therefore strangulation came first. Then the head blow. BR had to have taken her quietly down to the basement, took out his knife as to threaten her. Otherwise, how did he know these details? His Swiss Army knife was found within feet of JB, as was his hi tec boot prints. Also there was a wire found close to the garrote that was in the Boy Scout manual as to how to tie knots with it.
As for the marks found on JB back and face Kolar and Cynic state thus:

It would make sense that BR did this in order to see if JB was going to wake up and also as another means of torture.

BR bike? Yes, it disappears Christmas night. BR hasn’t been told to lie about getting a bike so he sticks to the truth. Just like JB arriving home that night and walking up the stairs ahead of PR. Which makes it obvious he was told to go to his room, pretend to be asleep and not come out. Yet he does come out when PR places the 911 call and he was sternly told “We aren’t talking to you”. If was just a few steps down to stand in the kitchen.
I believe it wasn’t one thing that made BR lose it that night but a building up of things. Much like when he was told that JB was now in heaven he started “sobbing and building up to a cry”?

Rain on my Parade,

Yet he does come out when PR places the 911 call and he was sternly told “We aren’t talking to you”.

Nicely observed.

The injury sequence is up for debate, but I tend to think it does not matter as the injuries were inflicted, the main question being did any represent staging?

BR's Swiss Army knife and his Hi-Tec boot print along with his alleged admission, courtesy of Kolar, that BR was searching through the basement on Christmas Day afternoon. Suggests he visited the wine-cellar?

BTW BR's above account appears to be more postmortem staging, since it explains away critical forensic evidence.

This is similar to JR giving BR an alibi for events after arriving back from the White's Christmas Party, with JR presumably leaving the FLASHLIGHT in BR's bedroom.

All false of course ... BR's trajectory of events were different for very good reasons, but he must have left some touch-dna on the flashlight? Hence JR's Christmas Fairy Tale.

The use of the Train Tracks to "awaken" JonBenet makes sense, other contusions and abrasions might be the result of BR dragging JonBenet along the floor?

Really dysfunctional family, assume BDI and you have the parents colluding with BR to sweep everything under the carpet, he goes back to school and allegedly resumes a normal life?

Nearly everyone involved with the case at an official level must know the case is BDI, but cannot communicate this, due to the Colorado Child Protection Statutes.

BDI even explains why Lacey went to the lengths she did to exonerate the Ramseys, and why Hunter never filed the True Bills.

Naturally there is much unexplained forensic evidence, including the nature of BR and JonBenet's therapy sessions, which might never be revealed as Dr Beuf apparently burned all his Ramsey medical records.

There is the possibility that information relating to the above will be released as not everything regarding the therapy sessions was destroyed.

We will just have to wait for JR to pass and see what happens.

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

The injury sequence is up for debate, but I tend to think it does not matter as the injuries were inflicted, the main question being did any represent staging?

UKGuy,
Most definitely! Otherwise, why would PR fiber evidence be entwined in the garrote and surrounding crime scene in the basement; as well as JR fiber evidence found in JB labia?

BR's Swiss Army knife and his Hi-Tec boot print along with his alleged admission, courtesy of Kolar, that BR was searching through the basement on Christmas Day afternoon. Suggests he visited the wine-cellar?

Yes, and could have watched his mom wrap the size 12s Christmas Day. He didn’t think about the size but the day of the week. Nobody else would have done this in the house that night. I forgot about this. So, this makes the items found (in the wine cellar) definitely staged. BR did get a bike for Christmas. No question about it, realizing this. So what would one ask here? Why did the SS become PR “bulldog”? Then they leave Boulder and go to work for them in Atlanta? The woman states, “Christmas night was the last time she say them as an intact family”.

This is similar to JR giving BR an alibi for events after arriving back from the White's Christmas Party, with JR presumably leaving the FLASHLIGHT in BR's bedroom.

All false of course ... BR's trajectory of events were different for very good reasons, but he must have left some touch-dna on the flashlight? Hence JR's Christmas Fairy Tale.

The flashlight was used that night as the neighbor to the NW saw flickering lights through the kitchen area. The drawer it was stored in was left partially open. JR wouldn’t have used a flashlight that night; but the light switch. It makes sense BR used it as he was sneaking around downstairs.
The flashlight could have been handled by all the people milling about in that kitchen the next morning. Also, the texture of the mag light is a diamond shape, with very small grit. So, no fingerprint evidence but possible. This does not dismiss touch dna; as you suggested.

Really dysfunctional family, assume BDI and you have the parents colluding with BR to sweep everything under the carpet, he goes back to school and allegedly resumes a normal life?

Which is exactly what happened. Sickening!

Nearly everyone involved with the case at an official level must know the case is BDI, but cannot communicate this, due to the Colorado Child Protection Statutes.

BDI even explains why Lacey went to the lengths she did to exonerate the Ramseys, and why Hunter never filed the True Bills.

Bingo!

Naturally there is much unexplained forensic evidence, including the nature of BR and JonBenet's therapy sessions, which might never be revealed as Dr Beuf apparently burned all his Ramsey medical records.

We have to remember that BR was seeing a psychiatrist at the time of the murder. He was 2 weeks shy of becoming 10 and prosecutable.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
Most definitely! Otherwise, why would PR fiber evidence be entwined in the garrote and surrounding crime scene in the basement; as well as JR fiber evidence found in JB labia?


Yes, and could have watched his mom wrap the size 12s Christmas Day. He didn’t think about the size but the day of the week. Nobody else would have done this in the house that night. I forgot about this. So, this makes the items found (in the wine cellar) definitely staged. BR did get a bike for Christmas. No question about it, realizing this. So what would one ask here? Why did the SS become PR “bulldog”? Then they leave Boulder and go to work for them in Atlanta? The woman states, “Christmas night was the last time she say them as an intact family”.


The flashlight was used that night as the neighbor to the NW saw flickering lights through the kitchen area. The drawer it was stored in was left partially open. JR wouldn’t have used a flashlight that night; but the light switch. It makes sense BR used it as he was sneaking around downstairs.
The flashlight could have been handled by all the people milling about in that kitchen the next morning. Also, the texture of the mag light is a diamond shape, with very small grit. So, no fingerprint evidence but possible. This does not dismiss touch dna; as you suggested.


Which is exactly what happened. Sickening!


Bingo!



We have to remember that BR was seeing a psychiatrist at the time of the murder. He was 2 weeks shy of becoming 10 and prosecutable.

Rain on my Parade,

Most definitely! Otherwise, why would PR fiber evidence be entwined in the garrote and surrounding crime scene in the basement; as well as JR fiber evidence found in JB labia?

Yes, both parents engaged in some postmortem staging. It's not enacted to advantage either parent as the forensic evidence they leave behind links them directly to the WC crime-scene. It's cleanup job for BR.

He didn’t think about the size but the day of the week.

Bingo. Both parent's would have known ANY pair of size-6 underwear would have fitted the bill, making the crime-scene consistent. Only BR with his eagle eye on status branding would have thought: "They have to be the same, a Wednesday pair, to make it look as if nothing has happened." This was so important to BR he then had to improvise by dressing JonBenet in a pair of his OWN long johns, just to stop the size-12s from falling down, still the alarm bells never went off for BR!

So, this makes the items found (in the wine cellar) definitely staged. BR did get a bike for Christmas. No question about it, realizing this.

You bet. Note birthday bike in the WC. Just lots of unrelated items, some of which are bloodstained. The WC is where the parents dumped stuff that they hoped the investigating officers would never lay eye on. When BPD finally asked the relevant questions, the answers were birthday gifts, Partially Opened or not. Except all three Ramsey's have different accounts of wine-cellar activity, e.g. JR told Lou Smit that PR knew NOTHING about the wine-cellar gifts for BR! Note neither parent talks about BR's bike!

So what would one ask here? Why did the SS become PR “bulldog”? Then they leave Boulder and go to work for them in Atlanta? The woman states, “Christmas night was the last time she say them as an intact family”.

Yes, really weird behavour on SS part. Including the fake emails to BPD impersonating a serving officer. You should treat what SS says as suspect, she took the Ramsey shilling. DS may have been in the Ramsey house that night but not involved directly, this is what might link the Ramsey's and the Stines and also explain the BR and DS continuing friendship along with the Stines leaving to work for the Ramsey's, whut is all that about?

This does not dismiss touch dna; as you suggested.

Sure, why else would JR revise his version of events to say he used the flashlight to put BR to bed? This is similar to BR saying he was in the WC Christmas day, hence his footprints. All three Ramsey's can be directly linked to the wine-cellar crime-scene, which was apparently created by one or more members of a Foreign Faction, duh!

We have to remember that BR was seeing a psychiatrist at the time of the murder. He was 2 weeks shy of becoming 10 and prosecutable.

Yes and JonBenet was in weekly therapy, makes you wonder what was going on? 6-year old girl needing therapy, I'll bet this is what the GJ were referencing when they leveled the Child Abuse True Bill as BOTH parents.

I recently read Ronan Farrow's book Catch and Kill relating how Harvey Weinstein's years of abuse was documented and made public, which was a real page turner, very enjoyable.

So I thought the audiobook The Farrows of Hollywood: Their Dark Side of Paradise by Marilyn Ann Moss, might be an interesting follow up until I read the preview, which reveals that Mia Farrow's allegations of sexual molestation by Woody Allen of their seven-year-old adopted daughter, Dylan, has roots in Farrow's childhood relationship with her father, John Farrow?

Are their any parallels with the Ramsey's, just who do you believe these days, will it turn out to be a hatchet job on Mia Farrow?

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

JR told Lou Smit that PR knew NOTHING about the wine-cellar gifts for BR!

UKGuy,
Yet PR states it was she that tore back the package on the legos; not BR = cover up.

Only BR with his eagle eye on status branding would have thought: "They have to be the same, a Wednesday pair, to make it look as if nothing has happened." This was so important to BR he then had to improvise by dressing JonBenet in a pair of his OWN long johns, just to stop the size-12s from falling down, still the alarm bells never went off for BR!

Status branding says BR told on himself in a major way here Because of the Rolex reference.

Yes, really weird behavour on SS part. Including the fake emails to BPD impersonating a serving officer. You should treat what SS says as suspect, she took the Ramsey shilling. DS may have been in the Ramsey house that night but not involved directly, this is what might link the Ramsey's and the Stines and also explain the BR and DS continuing friendship along with the Stines leaving to work for the Ramsey's, whut is all that about?

Here is an interesting fact: the Stines lived on 10th street. The Ramsey’s on 15th. Not that far of a bike ride in the middle of the night.

I recently read Ronan Farrow's book Catch and Kill relating how Harvey Weinstein's years of abuse was documented and made public, which was a real page turner, very enjoyable.

Thank you for this. I may have to purchase and read. Will definitely research.

So I thought the audiobook The Farrows of Hollywood: Their Dark Side of Paradise by Marilyn Ann Moss, might be an interesting follow up until I read the preview, which reveals that Mia Farrow's allegations of sexual molestation by Woody Allen of their seven-year-old adopted daughter, Dylan, has roots in Farrow's childhood relationship with her father, John Farrow?

Are their any parallels with the Ramsey's, just who do you believe these days, will it turn out to be a hatchet job on Mia Farrow?

Could very well be a hatchet job, especially if she lied and made up the entire story!

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
Yet PR states it was she that tore back the package on the legos; not BR = cover up.


Status branding says BR told on himself in a major way here Because of the Rolex reference.


Here is an interesting fact: the Stines lived on 10th street. The Ramsey’s on 15th. Not that far of a bike ride in the middle of the night.


Thank you for this. I may have to purchase and read. Will definitely research.



Could very well be a hatchet job, especially if she lied and made up the entire story!

Rain on my Parade,

Yet PR states it was she that tore back the package on the legos; not BR = cover up.

Sure, so if it was an intruder, why would JR or PR bother with fake statements like this?

Status branding says BR told on himself in a major way here Because of the Rolex reference.

Yes, BR thinks the Bloomingdales brand is so important, Patsy will know if JonBenet wears anything else?

Kind of understandable, he was a child, so he bought into all label branding hype.

It's dressing JonBenet in a pair of his own long johns and Patsy attempting to have us all believe this is how the Rich Folks of America live, i.e. a hand me down lifestyle, which is the antithesis of the branded, commercial world of conspicuous labels, tags and logos.

Here is an interesting fact: the Stines lived on 10th street. The Ramsey’s on 15th. Not that far of a bike ride in the middle of the night.

You are right, 15th street is not that far away, a few blocks and turns and DS would be home. Definitely a plausible scenario, also consider what he might have taken with him?

It's Burke's missing bike that has no current answers and other than DS returning home, not many suggestions.

Could very well be a hatchet job, especially if she lied and made up the entire story!

Who knows, if you read Catch and Kill, you will get some insight into the family dynamics as Ronan references this topic.

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Sure, so if it was an intruder, why would JR or PR bother with fake statements like this?

UKGuy,
There was no intruder.

Yes, BR thinks the Bloomingdales brand is so important, Patsy will know if JonBenet wears anything else?

I don’t recall that ever being poised as a question.

Kind of understandable, he was a child, so he bought into all label branding hype.

I see this all the time with adults; seldom with children. I live in a city that is big into this.

It's dressing JonBenet in a pair of his own long johns and Patsy attempting to have us all believe this is how the Rich Folks of America live, i.e. a hand me down lifestyle, which is the antithesis of the branded, commercial world of conspicuous labels, tags and logos.

If we’re are to believe PR here then we should expect her to not buy JB underwear from Bloomingdale’s for JB. PR was all into presentation, and show. Why else put JB through the pageant circuit. She even dyed JB hair.

You are right, 15th street is not that far away, a few blocks and turns and DS would be home. Definitely a plausible scenario, also consider what he might have taken with him?

The R’s lived 4 houses down from the corner of Cascade Ave. Take a left on cascade to the alley before 10th street. The Stine’s lived 3 houses from the corner of Cascade. A hop skip and a jump.
816 10th street to 755 (now 749) 15th street Boulder, Co.

It's Burke's missing bike that has no current answers and other than DS returning home, not many suggestions.

I have often wondered why JR had to leave his house to see if the garage door leading to the backyard was locked The morning of the 26th. He stated that boxes covered the inside of the garage. It’s possible someone left from that door.

Who knows, if you read Catch and Kill, you will get some insight into the family dynamics as Ronan references this topic.

I plan on doing just that. Looking forward to it!

 

[Rain on my Parade]

UKGuy,
There was no intruder.


I don’t recall that ever being poised as a question.


I see this all the time with adults; seldom with children. I live in a city that is big into this.


If we’re are to believe PR here then we should expect her to not buy JB underwear from Bloomingdale’s for JB. PR was all into presentation, and show. Why else put JB through the pageant circuit. She even dyed JB hair.


The R’s lived 4 houses down from the corner of Cascade Ave. Take a left on cascade to the alley before 10th street. The Stine’s lived 3 houses from the corner of Cascade. A hop skip and a jump.
816 10th street to 755 (now 749) 15th street Boulder, Co.


I have often wondered why JR had to leave his house to see if the garage door leading to the backyard was locked The morning of the 26th. He stated that boxes covered the inside of the garage. It’s possible someone left from that door.


I plan on doing just that. Looking forward to it!

UKGuy,
Okay for starters; I have not finished the book. I know the ending so lost interest. What Ronan is basically pointing out to us, is the depth coverup can be. Oh, the corruption! I guess we can see that by the DT news of late, in America.

But the real reason for this post is this. UKGuy, are those blue pants at the end of JB trunk? Maybe even fuzzy pants?