Lion Air Flight JT610 plane crashes in Indonesia, 29 Oct 2018 *lawyer Tom Girardi charged in 2023 with defrauding victims*

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I still say permanently disable that feature on all of those planes until they figure out why the bad sensor reading in the first place.

I have followed this case and have a pretty good handle on what it must have been like for the pilots unaware of the feature.

The first thing that happened is for some reason the bad sensor activated the anti-stall feature and it took a nose dive. Now the really bad part of this feature to me is as the pilots were trying to go back up I can almost guarantee that same feature prevented them from pulling up the plane as high as they wanted and it probably made the pilots freak out. Like why cant they pull up the plane as much as they wanted.

Then rinse and repeat. Plane takes another nose dive because sensor still not reading right and then having trouble pulling plane back up.

The "fix" was to disable the feature!

So I say permenantly disable it on all planes until they know what caused bad sensor to begin with.

And TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN all pilots flying this plane on the new feature and make sure they know how to turn it OFF.

All JMO
 
JudgeJudi said:
Lion Air’s co-founder says the giant low-cost carrier may cancel orders for more than 200 Boeing planes as relations between the two companies sour over the air crash that killed 189 people on October 29.

He cited “disappointment” with a Boeing statement last week that he said appeared to cast blame on Lion Air for the crash when the new Boeing 737 MAX jet plunged into the Java Sea shortly after takeoff. “It’s not right, it’s not ethical,” he said. “We are partners; we are not enemies.”

Canceling the orders could deprive the Chicago-based plane maker of one of its largest customers. Lion Air Group, which in 2017 became the first company to commercially operate a MAX jet, Boeing’s latest iteration of the 737, is one of the world’s top buyers of the planes. It has ordered 251 of them with a list price of more than $25 billion.

Lion Air Co-Founder Considers Canceling Giant Boeing Order After Indonesia Crash
Click to expand...
 
MAY cancel the order, in other words it could be an option to cancel the order! Or it could mean that they have lost some financial backing to pay for them, be interesting to see if they do actually cancel the order and down the line lay a similar order with airbus,
 
JudgeJudi said:
Lion Air’s co-founder says the giant low-cost carrier may cancel orders for more than 200 Boeing planes as relations between the two companies sour over the air crash that killed 189 people on October 29.

He cited “disappointment” with a Boeing statement last week that he said appeared to cast blame on Lion Air for the crash when the new Boeing 737 MAX jet plunged into the Java Sea shortly after takeoff. “It’s not right, it’s not ethical,” he said. “We are partners; we are not enemies.”

Canceling the orders could deprive the Chicago-based plane maker of one of its largest customers. Lion Air Group, which in 2017 became the first company to commercially operate a MAX jet, Boeing’s latest iteration of the 737, is one of the world’s top buyers of the planes. It has ordered 251 of them with a list price of more than $25 billion.

Lion Air Co-Founder Considers Canceling Giant Boeing Order After Indonesia Crash
Click to expand...

They should cancel their order and get Airbus A350s instead.
 
MsFacetious said:
Jakarta, Indonesia (CNN) Indonesian Navy divers have recovered the cockpit voice recorder from Lion Air Flight 610, a discovery that could help solve the mystery of why the brand-new Boeing 737 MAX 8 plunged into the Java Sea, killing all 189 people on board.

Lion Air crash: cockpit voice recorder found by divers - CNN
Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up.

“Divers and crew cheered when the device was lifted onto the deck of a ship Monday morning local time.
The cockpit voice recorder (CVR), which is one of two so-called "black boxes," was buried under eight meters (26 feet) of mud on the seabed and was found inside the current search area of 500 to 1,000 meters (546 to 1,093 yards) from the crash site, Navy spokesman Lt. Col. Agung Nugroho told CNN.“
 
gregjrichards said:
They should cancel their order and get Airbus A350s instead.
Click to expand...
Switching planes wont help the company if the issue is local training and maintenance.

Air traffic in Indonesia is booming as more people can afford plane tickets in the island nation. Indonesian air line companies are growing explosively, but are also having problems being able to keep up with the number of planes in regards to training of both air crew and maintenance technicians.

This has resulted in a documented poor safety record and has also led to Indonesian airlines experiencing crashes with the latest Airbus planes as well.
Hatfield said:
I still say permanently disable that feature on all of those planes until they figure out why the bad sensor reading in the first place.
Click to expand...
There could be an added complication in this case as just prior to the crash, ground technicians adjusted or perhaps "adjusted" critical flight sensors based on what a previous flight crew told them.

Thus, there could be situation where pilot not trained on the auto pilot feature gave a partial explanation to ground maintenance crew who then made sensor adjustments that they may or may not have been qualified to make and that may, or may not have been needed.


​
 
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Aviation expert Geoffrey Thomas said it was an "exceedingly important discovery" and there was no reason authorities should not release the audio or transcripts to the public.

"The Indonesians are very conscious that the whole world is looking at them. I'm sure that the NTSB (National Transportation Safety Board) of the US will put enormous pressure to release it," said Thomas, who is editor-in-chief of AirlineRatings.

Lion Air crash: cockpit voice recorder found by divers - CNN

If the voice recorder is undamaged, it could provide valuable additional information to investigators.

The transport committee's chairman said the device will be taken to the investigators' "black box" facility. He said it will take three to five days to dry and clean the device and to download its data. "To analyze it, we need more time, depending on the complexity of the problem. Data obtained from CVR is expected to complete our investigation data".

The voice recorder was found just 50 meters (164 feet) from where the data recorder was located.

https://abcnews.go.com/beta-story-c...al-lion-air-jet-voice-recorder-found-60353138
 
The good thing about this is that, although there is some posturing and positioning by the major players, these boards USUALLY get to the root cause(s).

So.. let's suppose that the pilots were not warned or trained relating to the self correcting nose move by autopilot even when turned off due to the air speed and flight angle instruments not working... who's fault is it then?

Boeing has some responsibility to have this information out there about the auto pilot ignore phase.. but these pilots appeared to have not done basic changes and the airline allowed the plane to go back into service by guessing what the problem was an changing a couple of sensors.

This one is going to have multiple companies at fault.
 
Justice101 said:
So.. let's suppose that the pilots were not warned or trained relating to the self correcting nose move by autopilot even when turned off due to the air speed and flight angle instruments not working... who's fault is it then?
Click to expand...
That would be the fault of the airline.
Justice101 said:
Boeing has some responsibility to have this information out there about the auto pilot ignore phase..
Click to expand...
In all probability, Boeing has put the information out in technical manuals that come with the plane. Boeing also offers maintenance training that could well address these issues.

Whether or not these features were explained by the airline to the pilots, or whether or not the airline gives sufficient simulator time to pilots to cover this feature is another matter.

My guess is that the core responsibility for operating the equipment safely lies with the purchaser, not the manufacturer.
 
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As the Lion Air crew fought to control their diving Boeing 737 Max 8 on Oct 28, they got help from an unexpected source: an off-duty pilot who happened to be riding in the cockpit.

That extra pilot, who was seated in the cockpit jumpseat, correctly diagnosed the problem and told the crew how to disable a malfunctioning flight-control system and save the plane, according to two people familiar with Indonesia's investigation.

However, the next day, under command of a different crew facing what investigators said was an identical malfunction, the jetliner crashed into the Java Sea, killing all 189 aboard.

Pilot who hitched a ride had saved Lion Air's 737 Max jet the day before its doomed flight
 
A cockpit recording from a doomed Lion Air Boeing jet has revealed pilots desperately looked through the plane's instruction manual as it nosedived into the sea off Indonesia.

Pilots scoured the handbook as they struggled to understand why the Max 8 aircraft was lurching downwards - but ran out of time before it hit the water, according to people with knowledge of the recording.

Pilots of doomed Lion Air jet 'desperately looked through handbook as it nosedived into the sea' | Daily Mail Online
 
Cryptic said:
Switching planes wont help the company if the issue is local training and maintenance.

Air traffic in Indonesia is booming as more people can afford plane tickets in the island nation. Indonesian air line companies are growing explosively, but are also having problems being able to keep up with the number of planes in regards to training of both air crew and maintenance technicians.

This has resulted in a documented poor safety record and has also led to Indonesian airlines experiencing crashes with the latest Airbus planes as well.

There could be an added complication in this case as just prior to the crash, ground technicians adjusted or perhaps "adjusted" critical flight sensors based on what a previous flight crew told them.

Thus, there could be situation where pilot not trained on the auto pilot feature gave a partial explanation to ground maintenance crew who then made sensor adjustments that they may or may not have been qualified to make and that may, or may not have been needed.


​
Click to expand...

I am sorry but the whole idea of a defective plane is ludicrous,

One is not buying something at a garage sale and willing to McGuyver it because the price is so low.
 
Boeing is getting sued for wrongful death over the Lion Air crash of a 737 Max 8 in Indonesia ... a disaster that killed everyone on board -- and signaled the start of Boeing's troubles with the model.

The federal lawsuit was filed by the estate of Rohmanir Pandi Sagala, one of the 189 souls lost when the flight went down last October. According to docs, obtained by TMZ, the 737 Max 8's problems stem from a system called MCAS -- Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System -- which is supposed to stabilize the plane during flight.

However, in the suit, Sagala's attorneys say the MCAS on Lion Air's Flight 610 tilted the nose into a dive without any input from the pilot ... due to a faulty sensor. Sagala's estate claims the pilots fought to pull the nose back up, causing the plane to seesaw more than 2 dozen times before crashing into the Java Sea.

TMZ
 
More families of victims of the Lion Air crash in Indonesia are suing Boeing after its chief executive apologised and said a software update for the MAX 8 jet would prevent further disasters.

Family members and lawyers said on Monday that CEO Dennis Muilenburg's comment last week, related to an automated flight system, was an admission that helps their cases.

More families of Indonesia's Lion Air crash victims sue Boeing
 
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