Lion Air Flight JT610 plane crashes in Indonesia, 29 Oct 2018 *lawyer Tom Girardi charged in 2023 with defrauding victims*

[SausagePizza]

A closer look at TBC-19

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DrbMs-VVsAA9NgB.jpg:large

 

[SausagePizza]

The FAA has now come out with an Emergency Airworthiness Directive

Dated: 11/07/2018
AD#: 2018-23-51

Sent to owners and operators of the Boing Company Model 737-8 and, -9 Airplanes

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...25833e0070a070/$FILE/2018-23-51_Emergency.pdf

 

[gregjrichards]

The FAA has now come out with an Emergency Airworthiness Directive

Dated: 11/07/2018
AD#: 2018-23-51

Sent to owners and operators of the Boing Company Model 737-8 and, -9 Airplanes

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgad.nsf/0/83ec7f95f3e5bfbd8625833e0070a070/$FILE/2018-23-51_Emergency.pdf

I’m not a pilot that seems a heck of a lot of process to remember when you are trying to control a plane that is diving.

189 people have died I would not be happy flying on these aircraft either as crew or as a passenger.

 

[SausagePizza]

FAA:
This AD was prompted by analysis performed by the manufacturer showing that if an erroneously high single angle of attack (AOA) sensor input is received by the flight control system, there is a potential for repeated nose-down trim commands of the horizontal stabilizer. We are issuing this AD to address this potential resulting nose-down trim, which could cause the flight crew to have difficulty controlling the airplane, and lead to excessive nose-down attitude, significant altitude loss, and possible impact with terrain.

Hmm ... I think I might have some Pizza for Dinner.....

 

[Isabelle]

JMO
I am shocked at the recent news. I sure dont want to be on any flight that takes an abrupt dive.

Its no wonder the previous flight people were throwing up and puking. It kept going down and back up like a roller coaster.

Sorry. I refuse to fly this plane until its fixed. Shouldn't the FAA require a grounding of these planes until its fixed permanently?

This sounds like a very serious issue.

Just consider, one of those planes flying overhead could come down anywhere!!!

 

[1&2&3]

Also, you may be booked on another type airplane, and after checking in, you find the plane has been switched to one of these! EEK!!

I’ve seen planes switched too many times for whatever crazy reason they give you.

 

[Pi Thoughts]

Oh dear.. a Lion Air incident today

Nocookies

A Lion Air plane has crashed into a lamp post at an airport in southwest Sumatra as it taxied to the runway last night, just nine days after one of the discount air carrier’s new Boeing 737 Max 8 aircraft plunged into the Java Sea killing all 189 people on board.

 

[MsFacetious]

This AD is very odd. In the past all planes of the crashed model have been grounded. This would be especially simple in this case since most aren't even delivered yet! They could rectify the issue before those are delivered. This is very strange.

 

[JudgeJudi]

The initial findings have highlighted a possible sensor problem, and that has been enough for Boeing to issue safety warnings to all the airlines that operate those planes, telling pilots to brush up on how to deal with confusing readings or erratic actions from the flight control computer, which could cause the planes to dive, hard. And now the FAA says it’s throwing its weight behind Boeing's advisory, to make it mandatory for US airlines to comply.

The investigation into the crash is ongoing and may reveal other compounding problems besides the sensor failure. But the accident also highlights the issue of overreliance on automated systems, with flight crews having minimal experience in how to deal with manual flying, let alone emergencies.

More of interest in the article.

Boeing Issues Safety Warning After a Fatal 737 MAX Nosedive

I just wouldn't fly in one of these planes. Full stop. As the pilot I referred to upthread said, "budget airline, budget maintenance and budget training cause accidents".

 

[JudgeJudi]

Investigators also have focused on evidence suggesting that an onboard computer may have been operating with incorrect data from one of the plane’s angle of attack sensors. It is not clear if there may have been a problem in the sensors, in the computer technology that processes their data or somewhere else in the system. The sensors are instruments on the plane’s exterior that gauge the angle of the oncoming wind as it comes across the aircraft. They can help determine whether the plane might be stalling — with its nose pointed at the wrong angle for its current speed to maintain lift. If the aircraft’s computers detect a stall, they can trigger electric motors that cause the tail to rise and the nose to pitch downward.



The head of the safety agency, said during a Wednesday briefing that it was not clear if there was a systemic problem with this type of aircraft.

“We cannot yet say that there is a design flaw with the plane,” he said, adding that the Max 8 appeared to have developed a problem with the angle of attack sensor only after technicians had changed it the day before the doomed flight.

What We Know About the Lion Air Flight 610 Crash

This sounds quite ominous.

 

[gregjrichards]

Investigators also have focused on evidence suggesting that an onboard computer may have been operating with incorrect data from one of the plane’s angle of attack sensors. It is not clear if there may have been a problem in the sensors, in the computer technology that processes their data or somewhere else in the system. The sensors are instruments on the plane’s exterior that gauge the angle of the oncoming wind as it comes across the aircraft. They can help determine whether the plane might be stalling — with its nose pointed at the wrong angle for its current speed to maintain lift. If the aircraft’s computers detect a stall, they can trigger electric motors that cause the tail to rise and the nose to pitch downward.

View attachment 154884

The head of the safety agency, said during a Wednesday briefing that it was not clear if there was a systemic problem with this type of aircraft.

“We cannot yet say that there is a design flaw with the plane,” he said, adding that the Max 8 appeared to have developed a problem with the angle of attack sensor only after technicians had changed it the day before the doomed flight.

What We Know About the Lion Air Flight 610 Crash

This sounds quite ominous.

That is not correct the problem did not start because the sensor was changed the day before. There have been nine flights identified on the black box where this was a problem and the plane did not do nine flights in 24 hours. The problem was an issue before the new sensor was fitted.

I can see lawsuits against Lion Air and Boeing in the future.

 

[gregjrichards]

Indonesia authorities said on Saturday (Nov 10) they had stopped the search for victims of a plane crash that killed all 189 people on board, but would keep looking for the Lion Air flight's second black box, the cockpit voice recorder.

About 196 bags containing body parts have been recovered from under the water with 79 victims identified and handed over to their families for burial.

Read more at Indonesia calls off search for Lion Air crash victims

This is heartbreaking and horrendous.

 

[JudgeJudi]

That is not correct the problem did not start because the sensor was changed the day before. There have been nine flights identified on the black box where this was a problem and the plane did not do nine flights in 24 hours. The problem was an issue before the new sensor was fitted.

I can see lawsuits against Lion Air and Boeing in the future.

I'm confused because I didn't see anything about nine flights in 24 hours. The article said, "In Lion Air 610’s final four flights, ..." and "Technicians in Bali changed the plane’s angle of attack sensors the day before the crash and the plane was declared fit to fly on to Jakarta. When it arrived there, maintenance crews addressed a problem with the plane's pitot tubes, the external probes that record airspeed."

It also said:
"Indonesia’s National Transportation Safety Committee, which is leading the investigation, said that inaccurate airspeed readings had been recorded on the plane in the days leading up to the crash. The airspeed is measured from so-called pitot tubes in the nose of the aircraft. Lion Air maintenance staff had worked on those tubes before the fatal last flight.

ETA: The New York Times is a very reliable source.

In Lion Air 610’s final four flights, the plane recorded repeated problems with its airspeed indicators, an issue that maintenance engineers tried to address multiple times, investigators said.

Boeing acknowledged in a statement that Indonesian investigators said the plane had experienced incorrect angle of attack readings. Erroneous inputs from an angle of attack sensor could put a Max 8 into a rapid descent, Boeing said in an advisory to customers".

What We Know About the Lion Air Flight 610 Crash

As the NTSB, NTSC and Boeing are all working together in this investigation, it seems odd that the NTSC would make an incorrect statement. I can only assume I've missed an article somewhere along the way. Can you help me out please Greg.

 

[gregjrichards]

The final moments of Lion Air Flight 610 as it hurtled soon after dawn from a calm Indonesian sky into the waters of the Java Sea would have been terrifying but swift.

The single-aisle Boeing aircraft, assembled in Washington State and delivered to Lion Air less than three months ago, appears to have plummeted nose-first into the water, its advanced jet engines racing the plane toward the waves at as much as 400 m.p.h. in less than a minute. The aircraft slammed into the sea with such force that some metal fittings aboard were reduced to powder, and the aircraft’s flight data recorder tore loose from its armored box, propelled into the muddy seabed.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....a/indonesia-plane-crash-last-moments.amp.html

 

[gregjrichards]

I'm confused because I didn't see anything about nine flights in 24 hours. The article said, "In Lion Air 610’s final four flights, ..." and "Technicians in Bali changed the plane’s angle of attack sensors the day before the crash and the plane was declared fit to fly on to Jakarta. When it arrived there, maintenance crews addressed a problem with the plane's pitot tubes, the external probes that record airspeed."

It also said:
"Indonesia’s National Transportation Safety Committee, which is leading the investigation, said that inaccurate airspeed readings had been recorded on the plane in the days leading up to the crash. The airspeed is measured from so-called pitot tubes in the nose of the aircraft. Lion Air maintenance staff had worked on those tubes before the fatal last flight.

ETA: The New York Times is a very reliable source.

In Lion Air 610’s final four flights, the plane recorded repeated problems with its airspeed indicators, an issue that maintenance engineers tried to address multiple times, investigators said.

Boeing acknowledged in a statement that Indonesian investigators said the plane had experienced incorrect angle of attack readings. Erroneous inputs from an angle of attack sensor could put a Max 8 into a rapid descent, Boeing said in an advisory to customers".

What We Know About the Lion Air Flight 610 Crash

As the NTSB, NTSC and Boeing are all working together in this investigation, it seems odd that the NTSC would make an incorrect statement. I can only assume I've missed an article somewhere along the way. Can you help me out please Greg.

Sorry I can’t find the article which stated the flight data recorder indicated there were similar technical problems on nine flights on the data recorder. I definitely did read it but please disregard this information until it can be confirmed.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Sorry I can’t find the article which stated the flight data recorder indicated there were similar technical problems on nine flights on the data recorder. I definitely did read it but please disregard this information until it can be confirmed.

Thanks. I don't doubt you read it somewhere. This has happened to me in the past too. I've then spent hours looking for something and in the end it doesn't really matter. We'll eventually find out what happened because as you know, these investigations invariably find out what the cause was. Please don't feel you have to justify what you said. I enjoy reading all your posts.

 

[gregjrichards]

Thanks. I don't doubt you read it somewhere. This has happened to me in the past too. I've then spent hours looking for something and in the end it doesn't really matter. We'll eventually find out what happened because as you know, these investigations invariably find out what the cause was. Please don't feel you have to justify what you said. I enjoy reading all your posts.

Thank you for your kindness understanding.

 

[Hatfield]

JMO
As part of the plane passenger rights "thing" that was talked about in previous years I would like to see a mandatory report of extra information about the plane we are about to fly on before each flight. Maybe require airlines to report at least an hour before a flight this type of information.

*Type of aircraft
*Diagram of the plane
*listing of any issues the plane has had in past year
*How old the plane is
*Seating chart with emergency exits shown
*Age of the pilots and their flight experience
*and more....

That type of thing may be a lot to ask for but I feel its our right to know what we are about to get ourselves into and having that information would help me decide if I want to board the flight.

For me personally I totally avoid propeller planes because I had a terrible experience once in bad weather on one so I go out of my way to try to find the type of aircraft and it is hard to do.

Having this information should be required IMO to allow us to make an informed decision with our own lives.

Heck the airlines could make more money this way as any last minute changes would be mainly at our own cost which I am glad to do if I am worried about losing my life.

ETA
Btw this is what I found out after lots of research in how to identify if you are going to be on a propeller plane. The airline I was on used certain flight numbering patterns in their flight numbers and all the propeller planes had a unqiue pattern to their flight number. I was able to identify if my plane was either a jet engine or propeller plane by the flight #. Cant remember the airline.

 

[MsFacetious]

'We're p--sed': Pilots says Boeing didn't disclose 737's new control feature

 

[JudgeJudi]

'We're p--sed': Pilots says Boeing didn't disclose 737's new control feature

I was shocked reading that article. How can something like this happen.