Lloyd Welch is Person of Interest

[simplifymylife2014]

Richard and others:

I have to chuckle a little because I don't think I phrased my question right or it could have been understood two different ways.

I am NOT asking WHY LE has not charged LLW2 with murder, I am saying that SINCE HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY PRIOR RECORD OF MURDER, HOW COULD THEY CHARGE HIM WITH MURDER of the Lyon Sisters?

I know one answer can be that, at some point, some criminals may start to murder.

I wonder if LE has evidence that he MAY HAVE BEGUN to do those kinds of crimes.

 

[steveP120]

Richard and others:

I have to chuckle a little because I don't think I phrased my question right or it could have been understood two different ways.

I am NOT asking WHY LE has not charged LLW2 with murder, I am saying that SINCE HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY PRIOR RECORD OF MURDER, HOW COULD THEY CHARGE HIM WITH MURDER of the Lyon Sisters?

I know one answer can be that, at some point, some criminals may start to murder.

I wonder if LE has evidence that he MAY HAVE BEGUN to do those kinds of crimes.

There is a first time for everything, but for crimes-gone-wrong, the person usually has a history of minor crimes or misconduct, prior to something going wrong. The classic case is this CA police officer, who, well, was acting like Lloyd with older women, until something went wrong and he committed murder to cover up something that would get him fired:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Peyer

 

[simplifymylife2014]

Thanks for that link steveP120.

It is good to know that even when a crime may be committed by member(s) of LE, there are many cases of it being made known.

 

[beachlvr0810]

Curious if people consider those living in the foothills at the base of the mountain part of the mountain culture too? Or does the mystique start where the hills get steep?

Those living at the foot of the mountain are considered part of Taylor's Mountain...when families settled high up on the mountain way back years ago, some of their children moved down to the foot of it and settled there. Some moved to be closer to town and their jobs.

 

[beachlvr0810]

Since the police have released little information, the police may or many not have found victims' remains a few feet off the main road.

But the backroads, someplace known by the person of interest, but off the beaten path, would seem like a more common place for criminals to dispose of bodies. Unfortunately, there must be hundreds if not thousands of similar mountains between Wheaton, MD and Taylors Mountain, if someone even headed that way.

A few months ago, a military helicopter was searching from the air, giving me the impression that the police were still looking for a needle in a haystack at increasingly distant mountains.

From what I was told by LE, when the coast guard choppers were flying over, they were looking for all the barns in the area in hopes of finding the station wagon. Now every time any other helicopter flies over, I always wonder if they're part of the Lyon Sister's investigation or looking for missing James Walker.

 

[beachlvr0810]

Very true. Richard Welch, after all, WAS the one with the vehicle.

How do you know he was the one with the vehicle?

 

[siriunsun]

Richard and others:

I have to chuckle a little because I don't think I phrased my question right or it could have been understood two different ways.

I am NOT asking WHY LE has not charged LLW2 with murder, I am saying that SINCE HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY PRIOR RECORD OF MURDER, HOW COULD THEY CHARGE HIM WITH MURDER of the Lyon Sisters?

I know one answer can be that, at some point, some criminals may start to murder.

I wonder if LE has evidence that he MAY HAVE BEGUN to do those kinds of crimes.

Hmm.....how could they charge him with murder? Probably with the assistance of one of the prosecutors!

He doesn't really need a prior record of murder; just enough evidence in these two murders should be enough!

 

[siriunsun]

How do you know he was the one with the vehicle?

Good question! LLW was, after all, in the habit of "unauthorized use" of vehicles! But here's the thing; no one had complained of the same to law enforcement on that day, anywhere near LLW. Uncle Dick would have been the only one with a car.

 

[AAWJ]

"Uncle Dick" was the only family member with a car. So No one else in the whole Welch family had a car back in 75?

 

[siriunsun]

"Uncle Dick" was the only family member with a car. So No one else in the whole Welch family had a car back in 75?

Apparently, no one else with means, motive, or opportunity.........and various other, ahem, bits and pieces of evidence adding up against him or her.

Did Lloyd have a car, that you know of, back in 1975?

 

[danmanhatter]

Apparently, no one else with means, motive, or opportunity.........and various other, ahem, bits and pieces of evidence adding up against him or her.

Did Lloyd have a car, that you know of, back in 1975?

No, but LLW appears to have had several aunts, uncles, step-aunts, step-uncles, and even step-cousins, as well as friends of the family and neighbors. It looks like there were plenty of opportunities for access to a car. What would prevent him from stealing one?

Online records show that many of them have since had some pretty serious criminal records over the years . Including robbery, theft, drugs, domestic violence, sexual assault, child custody, deadly weapons, assault/battery, restraining orders, credit card fraud, threating phone calls, etc. Not to mention 2 or 3 with child abuse/sex charges as of late.

If LLW had the opportunity, much of his extended family and friends were not far away. Many of them seem to have had high likelihoods, of being good candidates, for bad behavior.

Like many have expressed on here before, you've got to feel really bad for the honorable Welchs' who are good people and have nothing to hide. LLW and others have truly given that family a bad name.

 

[steveP120]

Like many have expressed on here before, you've got to feel really bad for the honorable Welchs' who are good people and have nothing to hide. LLW and others have truly given that family a bad name.

If my memory is correct, two members of the Family, the niece who visits him in prison and Thomas, have used the term, "black sheep of the family" in describing Lloyd.

While a low-middle class family from rural Virginia in the 60s and 70s may have some problems, it's also likely the Lloyd got this problems in TEXAS when he lived with his dad, and mother, until his Dad killed his mother in a drunk driving accident, and Lloyd was in foster care for some time. Juvenile records are private but for all we know, Lloyd was thrown into foster care with some other messed up kids, if having your dad kill your mom was not enough to mess one up.

 

[siriunsun]

No, but LLW appears to have had several aunts, uncles, step-aunts, step-uncles, and even step-cousins, as well as friends of the family and neighbors. It looks like there were plenty of opportunities for access to a car. What would prevent him from stealing one?

Online records show that many of them have since had some pretty serious criminal records over the years . Including robbery, theft, drugs, domestic violence, sexual assault, child custody, deadly weapons, assault/battery, restraining orders, credit card fraud, threating phone calls, etc. Not to mention 2 or 3 with child abuse/sex charges as of late.

If LLW had the opportunity, much of his extended family and friends were not far away. Many of them seem to have had high likelihoods, of being good candidates, for bad behavior.

Like many have expressed on here before, you've got to feel really bad for the honorable Welchs' who are good people and have nothing to hide. LLW and others have truly given that family a bad name.

I suppose nothing would stop LLW from stealing a car, except maybe a big, mean dog or getting caught redhanded. But here's the thing: there weren't any reports of stolen vehicles that day that led to LLW, or appeared connected to him in any way. And I do feel really bad for those who do not deserve this....especially for the eleven year old mentioned by LLW in the statement made for the unsealed search warrant. Trying to say an eleven year old without means, motive, opportunity, or a vehicle to transport anyone from Maryland to southern Virginia is crazy. Reading comments on various websites and forums to the effect that the eleven year old was involved is very hard. Yes, that makes me feel bad.

 

[Richard]

The Eleven Year Old Boy...

.....
.... And I do feel really bad for those who do not deserve this....especially for the eleven year old mentioned by LLW in the statement made for the unsealed search warrant. Trying to say an eleven year old without means, motive, opportunity, or a vehicle to transport anyone from Maryland to southern Virginia is crazy. Reading comments on various websites and forums to the effect that the eleven year old was involved is very hard. Yes, that makes me feel bad.

I fully understand your feelings about the 11 year old boy - cousin of Lloyd Welch. However, as sad and unfortunate as it is, he HAS been placed at the scene of an alleged abduction of the Lyon sisters in statements made by Lloyd Welch to investigators.

Nobody .... Not Lloyd, not MCP, not anyone on this website has stated that this boy was culpable or actively involved in the abduction of the Lyon sisters.

But to believe Lloyd enough to search his uncle's property and dig up a mountainside in Virginia, one has to consider the boy a potential eyewitness to their abduction. His testimony MIGHT be crucial in confirming or refuting anything Lloyd has said or might say about that day.

His age would have to be taken into account in considering his understanding of events. However, it should not be automatically assumed that he does not remember that day simply because he was only 11 years old.

Consider that of the ten other publicly documented/ identified eyewitnesses that fateful day, 9 were between the ages of 12 and 18. Information crucial to this case has come from persons who were very young at the time.

The unfortunate thing is that investigators may have disregarded some early leads or information on the case BECAUSE they doubted or devalued the words of these young witnesses. The fortunate thing about it is that most of them are probably still living today, and could potentially be questioned on what they recall seeing that day.

In February 2014, MCP revealed for the first time that a young girl about 12 years old had provided them with a description of a Long Haired Man (LHM) and a story about him following and bothering her and the Lyon sisters on 25 March 1975. They proceeded to show a side-by-side comparison of that LHM sketch with a 1977 mug shot of Lloyd Welch and remarked about how much he resembled the sketch.

That girl today could potentially link Lloyd and others to the scene, just as the (then) 11 year old boy could. However, the boy (if he was truly present in the car that day) could POSITIVELY identify both Richard and Lloyd Welch, whereas the girl had only described a person UNKNOWN to her (LHM).

That boy is now a 51 year - old - man, who has made public statements to news reporters that he does not recall the incident described by Lloyd Welch and that Lloyd is a liar, and that he alone (Lloyd) may have perpetrated the alleged abduction. He may have made statements to MCP investigators, but we do not know what they are - or if MCP has even questioned him.

 

[steveP120]

The Eleven Year Old Boy...

That girl today could potentially link Lloyd and others to the scene, just as the (then) 11 year old boy could. However, the boy (if he was truly present in the car that day) could POSITIVELY identify both Richard and Lloyd Welch, whereas the girl had only described a person UNKNOWN to her (LHM).

That boy is now a 51 year - old - man, who has made public statements to news reporters that he does not recall the incident described by Lloyd Welch and that Lloyd is a liar, and that he alone (Lloyd) may have perpetrated the alleged abduction. He may have made statements to MCP investigators, but we do not know what they are - or if MCP has even questioned him.

We know from the top of page two of the search warrant:
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wset/SKMBT_60115022314160.pdf
that investigators did talk to Thomas and reported inconsistent stories from Thomas, his uncle and aunt, about the meeting in 2014.

However, if you want to be technical or legal like one ivy-league lawyer/presidential candidate dodging questions, we don't know if Thomas talked to MCP investigators or FBI investigators or some other investigators.

 

[Richard]

I wasn't trying to split hairs in the wording of my post. What I meant is that we do not know what - if anything - Thomas Welch, Jr. (the Eleven Year Old Boy of 1975) has stated officially to any investigators regarding whether or not he was present (as alleged by Lloyd Welch) in a car with Sheila and Kate Lyon on 25 March 1975.

The story told by Lloyd Welch would and should come under scrutiny regarding its accuracy and truth. Thomas could potentially corroborate Lloyd's story - or refute it. Or he might simply state that he does not remember the incident.

If he were to state that he does not remember it, one has to consider that probably every kid in the area had heard of the Lyon sisters at the time. Riding in a car with two girls, his same age for some distance would be something not easily forgotten in light of subsequent news coverage.

 

[steveP120]

The March 15 Metro (local) section of the Washington Post has a cover story on the Lyon Sisters

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...7d3ed8-c907-11e4-b2a1-bed1aaea2816_story.html

where the detectives were interviewed, but declined to discuss any information about the case.
Interesting background information on the detectives, but the only new information I see are a few (undated) quotes from Lloyd and his stepmother:

"To members of the Welch family, the detectives efforts’ have amounted to an obsession — one that has led them into a form of tunnel vision.

“I tried to tell them I had nothing to do with this, and look where it got me. My family’s and my lives turned upside down,” Lloyd Welch wrote in a letter to The Washington Post from prison.

“They can dig that whole mountain down and they’re not going to find them, because they’re not there,” said Welch’s stepmother, Edna Welch, who lives in Tennessee.""
------------------------------------------
Lloyd's statement to the Washington Post is inconsistent with the statement he reportedly said in the search-warrant affidavit.

 

[siriunsun]

We know from the top of page two of the search warrant:
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wset/SKMBT_60115022314160.pdf
that investigators did talk to Thomas and reported inconsistent stories from Thomas, his uncle and aunt, about the meeting in 2014.

However, if you want to be technical or legal like one ivy-league lawyer/presidential candidate dodging questions, we don't know if Thomas talked to MCP investigators or FBI investigators or some other investigators.

I'm wondering how he could have avoided talking to all investigators. If the entire search went so far as to dig up sites on the mountain, I think we can assume that TTW2 talked to any and all investigators who had questions for him.

 

[Richard]

Just a few quick comments regarding Lloyd Lee Welch, Jr.....

Since he was first named as a Person of Interest in the case a little over a year ago, there is not a lot that we know about him - other than that he was involved with a girl named Helen, worked for a carnival, and had a number of scrapes with the law, some of them involving young girls. And, of course that he is currently incarcerated in prison.

What we do not know about Lloyd might fill a book. Hardly anything is known about him prior to or immediately after 25 March 1975.

Lloyd had just turned 18 in December of 1974 by most accounts (although there is some descrepancy in birth years in various records). MCP believe he was at Wheaton Plaza on 25 March 1975. But what else is or was known about him prior to that date?

Where did Lloyd live?
What schools did he attend?
Did he have any significant problems at school?
Was he a drop-out?
Did he have a police record as a juvenile?
Specifically, did he have any record of offenses against children or women prior to March 1975?
Did he have any mental or emotional disabilities known at the time?
Did he ever take Drivers training or apply for a drivers license?
Who were his friends or associates?
What exactly did he tell investigators on 1 April 1975?

At one time, this topic had many threads started in an attempt to connect Lloyd with crimes in various states. I do not recall if anyone ever made any connections with Lloyd and other unsolved cases.

There was a MCP/FBI timeline which contained some scattered addresses, but other than a few specific cases connected to Lloyd, not much information. I wonder if LE has filled in that timeline with newly obtained information in the past year?

 

[simplifymylife2014]

We do know that he personally witnessed as a child, being a passenger in the same car, the day his mother was killed in a car accident, in which his father LLW1 was the driver.

Was his father drinking which caused the car accident?

He was taken from living with his father and lived with others until he was older. Then I think he lived with his father and stepmother for a while.

His stepmother could probably fill in the spaces.

LLW2 was spoken of as always getting into trouble.
Perhaps the car accident contributed to a rebellious spirit?

I would think his mental state got very bad after witnessing his own mother's death in the car accident.

Didn't he live with his uncle for a time?

Does anyone have the link which mentions the car accident?