Local 6 Uncovers New Info in Anthony Case

[logicalgirl]

Dear Fellow Posters;
I think we've just had our first "real" experience at what the next two months are going to be like as we work our way to the beginning of the trial.

We are going to have to listen to newscasters twist the facts as they try for bigger audiences for their "bombshells" - what we know to be factual is going to get squeezed, twisted, stretched, pounded on so it looks like something other than it is.:loser:

I think we are going to brace ourselves and get used to yelling at computer screens and tv screens and clear our desks because I think there will be pounding and head banging. For those of you who grind their teeth, like me, I suggest a temporary mouth guard. Seriously I think our emotions are going to take a battering and we listen to complete rubbish spouted by everyone and anyone looking for their 15 minutes.:maddening:

Whew, this is going to be tough, even before we get to trial. I may seriously start lotus position and ooohhmmminng, just so I will make the distance without stroking out!

But we will finally see Justice For Caylee!:rocker:

 

[cloud9]

Dear Fellow Posters;
I think we've just had our first "real" experience at what the next two months are going to be like as we work our way to the beginning of the trial.

We are going to have to listen to newscasters twist the facts as they try for bigger audiences for their "bombshells" - what we know to be factual is going to get squeezed, twisted, stretched, pounded on so it looks like something other than it is.:loser:

I think we are going to brace ourselves and get used to yelling at computer screens and tv screens and clear our desks because I think there will be pounding and head banging. For those of you who grind their teeth, like me, I suggest a temporary mouth guard. Seriously I think our emotions are going to take a battering and we listen to complete rubbish spouted by everyone and anyone looking for their 15 minutes.:maddening:

Whew, this is going to be tough, even before we get to trial. I may seriously start lotus position and ooohhmmminng, just so I will make the distance without stroking out!

But we will finally see Justice For Caylee!:rocker:

Well said and I agree! I was like a lunatic last night! I couldn't believe what was being said! :banghead:

 

[whiteangora]

I've lived in SW Florida for over twenty years. There have been too many accidental drownings of young children, more than I can remember anyway, but in all of the incidents that I can recall, the parents or care givers called 911 immediately.

There has not been a single "ugly coping" cover up for an accidental drowning. It happens. It's tragic. It's accidental. The public is sympathetic toward the parents loss and very few parents have been prosecuted for neglect. It has to be glaringly obvious that the child was unattended due to drug use or left home alone etc...

No reasonable parent hides the fact of drowning with duct taping and dumping the child's body down the road and calls it a kidnapping!

KC could have intentionally drowned Caylee and still presented an accidental drowning and perhaps gotten away with it.

I, as a juror, wouldn't believe for one second that this was an accidental drowning.

Good luck defense team.

IF this is what the defense is going with, then they will have to admit that the nanny story was just a huge fabrication. The jury is not going to be biting because I doubt that they will have the mindset of a George and Cindy Anthony who seem to swallow anything and everything their DD tells them. This scenario is only going to make her look worse and more guilty of murder.
As far as this junk being reported on the local news, best thing to do is just say, "I'll pass". imo

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Dear Fellow Posters;
I think we've just had our first "real" experience at what the next two months are going to be like as we work our way to the beginning of the trial.

We are going to have to listen to newscasters twist the facts as they try for bigger audiences for their "bombshells" - what we know to be factual is going to get squeezed, twisted, stretched, pounded on so it looks like something other than it is.:loser:

I think we are going to brace ourselves and get used to yelling at computer screens and tv screens and clear our desks because I think there will be pounding and head banging. For those of you who grind their teeth, like me, I suggest a temporary mouth guard. Seriously I think our emotions are going to take a battering and we listen to complete rubbish spouted by everyone and anyone looking for their 15 minutes.:maddening:

Whew, this is going to be tough, even before we get to trial. I may seriously start lotus position and ooohhmmminng, just so I will make the distance without stroking out!

But we will finally see Justice For Caylee!:rocker:

You do speak the truth, LG....it brings back all the rage and fury I felt after CA became contrary with her words...it just fails me to hear this diabribe of an accident, when one little call to 911 and she may have faced no charges at all...accidents happen all the time, it's what the parent does after that makes the difference...all this does is show how truly heartless this MOTY was to her only child. It will enrage the jury besides insult them to think this is possible they why the need for the duct tape? NO, it's not going to fly and this MIGHT make the jurors recommend death...this is playing russian roulette, suicide by prison???JMHO

Justice for Caylee

 

[missm]

This is what I always thought happened:

While I believe that ICA and CA had a turbulent relationship, I don't think that ICA intended to murder Caylee. I think after the big fight, she left the house in a big snot with Caylee the way any overindulged, stroppy teenager behaves when they are told "no". After leaving in a huff, where was she to go? Tony liked her like a teenage boy- flat on her back, and was not looking for a wife, much less a wife with a baby daughter. ICA wanted to get away from anyone she ever had to "answer to" in her life, and just be free to be a party girl, especially this night when she wanted to shake off the memories of the fight with CA.

She couldn't drag Caylee into her boyfriend's place because that would ruin the sex & party vibe, so like usual (I believe) she gave Caylee xanax (zanny as slang) to knocker her out for a few hours, so she and Tony could get down to business. Except when she eventually went back to the trunk of her car, she realised she gave Caylee too much and she had died.

Now being selfish and stupid the way only an immature, selfish, spoiled brat who has never had any personal responsibility can be (after all, CA & GA mainly looked after Caylee, while ICA faffed around free as a bird all day pretending to work), and because her family is so dysfunctional and has believed all her lies for so long because it's better to live in denial and think your family is perfect than really see what is going on (a pregnant teenager who dropped out of high school, a husband secretly more interested in escorts than his wife, a wife who is a control freak and an emotional abuser, and a son who wants nothing to do with his family).... of COURSE she thinks she is so sneaky and smart that she can use her wits to get herself out of the mess she created.

She drives around with the dead body of her baby in the trunk, decomposing in the heat of the Florida sunshine for a few days while she tries to come up with a plan. Eventually, she decides that the only way she will look blameless is to say that Caylee was kidnapped. Everybody feels sorry for the mother of a kidnapped, really pretty baby, right? Her parents will buy it because they've always bought her lies. And because of that, she assumes that she must be pretty smart and far ahead of the entire world, because it's never done her wrong so far in her life: stealing from Grandma, telling her parents she couldn't possibly be pregnant because like Mary, she too was going to have a virgin birth. If they believed all of THAT, why wouldn't they believe her kidnapping story?

So she comes home for gas cans as an excuse to get the duct tape. Dammit, Daddy- stay away from the car! Don't all kidnappers blindfold and cover the mouths of their victims? Gee, all the cop shows & movies she has ever seen have something like that in then, right? That will make it really authentic! People will feel so extra-sorry for her, the poor, poor mother of a kidnapped baby- never in a million years will she be blamed! Maybe Caylee being dead is really a blessing in disguise after all, she thinks. Now she can have the Bella Vita she has always wanted, and she'll move out on her own, and with Caylee gone she can just cut ties with CA for good- there will be no reason now she'll ever have to stay in touch or be under her thumb! The only thing CA was ever good for was watching "the brat" when she wanted to go meet guys and party.

Except getting rid of the body proves harder than she thought. When can she do it? Where will she put it? Could she trust anyone else with her little secret to get a bit of help? She dumps the body in a familiar location with no other thought than she knows for certain that nobody really ever goes in there so it should be a relatively safe graveyard. Then she decides that maybe she'll say that the kidnapping happened when her car ran out of gas like it was prone to do, when she accepted help from a stranger. Or maybe the kidnapping was a carjacking and the carjacker took off with Caylee in the backseat. Then she could just dump the car at Amscot and feign ignorance.

Except the plan went wrong when CA finally caught up with her and dragged her home. She wasn't counting on a face-to-face confrontation again, and because she was also a bit scared because this was such a huge almighty lie, she couldn't get the words out. By the time the police got involved, she regained some of her liar confidence, but chickened out of using the story she originally concocted for whatever reason. Maybe she was slightly intimidated by the police involvement. So she kept some of the details the same as she was put on the spot- the kidnapping, and then the name Zanny which just came off the tip of her tongue. Then it all snowballed from there.

Either way, I hope she sizzles in that chair. And I hope CA and GA aren't too far behind her for all the lying and trying to circumvent justice for their innocent granddaughter. They deserve to be punished for aiding and abetting a murderer.

 

[Aedrys]

I find it highly ironic that they are even thinking about arguing a drowning accident in a state that probably has more pools per capita and drownings than any other state, not to mention being surrounded on the three sides by water as well as being watery inland in several places, and having more hurricanes hit it than any other state. If anyone knows about water and drowning, it would be Florida. Baez and Mason are going to be laughed out of court if they actually try this as a defense. I can't imagine the amount of evidence against this that state would be able to bring to refute it!

 

[beach]

Random thoughts after reading this thread -

1. Let's all remember we are hearing a defense friendly reporter's interpretation of Dr. G's depo. Personally, I am not going to give this much weight at all until I read it for myself. We've been down this road many times before.
2. This is about creating reasonable doubt. That is all this is.
3. VIP and we tend to not talk about this much - One of the charges is Aggravated Manslaughter of a Child. In other words, if the jury has any doubt about convicting her of First Degree Murder, they could convict her of Aggravated Manslaughter of a Child. That carries a 30 yr. sentence, IIRC. I have always maintained I thought that was by far the best defense and have never understood why they didn't try to go this route. I give the defense credit for finally considering this option. I still believe it is a very, very long shot because there is so much more the defense would have to overcome and cannot be explained away (e.g., duct tape, Zanny, 31 days, the first phone call home from jail, bella vita, partying, the MySpace entries, etc..) They've got a huge mountain to climb and I have complete faith in the prosecution.
4. I realize they are trying to create reasonable doubt in a number of ways - could be drowning or someone moved the body while Casey was incarcerated, but these two theories don't mesh at all for me. If it was an accidental drowning and Casey put Caylee in the trunk, then placed her body at some unknown location, why would anyone move it to the woods directly behind the Anthony home? Makes no sense and will confuse the jury. They need to pick one and focus on it.
5. I'm wondering if the defense had a falling out with WESH and Bob Kealing. lol Why all of a sudden is TP getting the scoops?

 

[bogeygal]

It's on TruTV right now. Just began

 

[BigFatMommyDog]

I've lived in SW Florida for over twenty years. There have been too many accidental drownings of young children, more than I can remember anyway, but in all of the incidents that I can recall, the parents or care givers called 911 immediately.

There has not been a single "ugly coping" cover up for an accidental drowning. It happens. It's tragic. It's accidental. The public is sympathetic toward the parents loss and very few parents have been prosecuted for neglect. It has to be glaringly obvious that the child was unattended due to drug use or left home alone etc...

No reasonable parent hides the fact of drowning with duct taping and dumping the child's body down the road and calls it a kidnapping!

KC could have intentionally drowned Caylee and still presented an accidental drowning and perhaps gotten away with it.

I, as a juror, wouldn't believe for one second that this was an accidental drowning.

Good luck defense team.

Just quoting you for general reference Clock. Perhaps it was mentioned up-thread, but this "positioning" combined with the presence of that retired judge (Bill Eaton) back in January, sure sounds to me like they're going for the "moment of inattentiveness" bit being not grounds for murder...http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-12-31/news/os-judge-eaton-retires-20101231_1_death-penalty-expert-spaziano-off-death-row-joseph-crazy-joe-spaziano Hope I linked that right. If I recall correctly this was discussed back in the strategy or hearing thread for that date back in January.

 

[logicalgirl]

Ah - a calming rational presence, thank you!

All good points Beach, and intellectually I do know all of this, but emotionally I know listening to "defense friendly reporters" over the next few months is going to have me standing on the edge of the cliffcguru:oke:

Because I know two months of listening to the defense floating theories this way will have me ullhair: ullhair: ullhair:

But it did help for a few moments to read your comments. :therethere:

 

[ClockWatcher]

Just quoting you for general reference Clock. Perhaps it was mentioned up-thread, but this "positioning" combined with the presence of that retired judge (Bill Eaton) back in January, sure sounds to me like they're going for the "moment of inattentiveness" bit being not grounds for murder...http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-12-31/news/os-judge-eaton-retires-20101231_1_death-penalty-expert-spaziano-off-death-row-joseph-crazy-joe-spaziano Hope I linked that right. If I recall correctly this was discussed back in the strategy or hearing thread for that date back in January.

Thanks BigFatMommyDog! And there it is, "n 1998, Lykkebak represented a topless dancer, Rachel Reed, 22, whose 1-year-old daughter and a playmate had drowned in a pool after wandering into the backyard while Reed was asleep. Prosecutors charged Reed with manslaughter.

Eaton presided at her trial. After hearing only the state's case, he granted a judgment of acquittal, finding Reed not guilty. If Reed were convicted, the judge said, then any parent whose child was ever hurt or killed during a moment of inattention could be put on trial."

There is NO REASON to cover up an accidental drowning.

 

[Chiquita71]

It's not really earth-shattering that there is information that backs up that Caylee's death was a homicide. I seriously don't see how anyone could claim that a two-year-old baby, whose remains were found double bagged in garbage bags, duct tape wrapped around her mouth and nose, and thrown out into those swamp-like woods like trash, could be anything but a homicide. It helps the state if there is even more evidence to support Caylee's death being a homicide, but all the evidence that was there already proves this, imo, without a reasonable doubt.

This reporter needs to take all this evidence as a whole and really think about what he is about to do. He can go ahead and write an article based on the Suburban Drive location and his theory that it was staged... but he would be a fool to not look at all the evidence as a whole.

Does he remember that there were murder charges... that Casey was indicted on First Degree Murder charges... even before Caylee was found and there was a Suburban Location?

There was overwhelming evidence to indict Casey Anthony in October 2008... evidence that I believe would have convicted Casey of First Degree Murder even without Caylee being found. The only thing that Suburban Drive and the finding of Caylee's remains proved... even further, imo... is that Casey Anthony murdered Caylee intentionally and it gave the State more reason to put the death penalty back on the table because of the circumstances of how Caylee was killed and how she was thrown away like trash.

All evidence at the Suburban location leads back to the Anthony home and to Casey Anthony and there is nothing staged about it.

LolaMoon :clap:


:tyou: Everyone for posting.

 

[Solace]

Thanks!

I remember when they finished questioning her and Baez and Cheney were acting as if they had just won the case. From what I read, Dr. G handled herself extremely well and the questions Cheney asked did not get the answers he wanted. In fact, they are damning. IMO

 

[ZsaZsa]

Gnatcatcher, There was a statement made that the duct tape was covering the nasal apertures. It was in an official report, I thought it was the autopsy. I think Dr G just can't say with 100% certainty that it covered her nose. I wish I had time to search for that report. Anyone remember where the "nasal apertures" statement was reported?

Yes, here it is :-
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...P4lFMa&sig=AHIEtbT93aCWhJ8wwbAHRDYtBWeWASYzUg
Page 14.

 

[Intermezzo]

Dr. G versus CM.

Really?? Wasn't the other lawyer Dorothy Clay Sims part of that Depo? I thought she was hired or brought in for scientific and medical testimony?
What happened to her?

 

[Intermezzo]

OMG what if she drowned in the pool!!!!!!!!!!!!

Duct Tape Ashton

Homocide + dumped to rot with duct tape on face this was not a drowning

tape indicates foul play

Are they going with Caylee Drowned?
And then go with,(SPECULATING) Casey, with the possibility of brain damage in childhood, applied Duct tape, double bagged her and threw her in a swampy area close to her home and the elementary school she used to attend.

:maddening:

 

[Intermezzo]

no child accidentally drowned is put in a plastic bag and dumped on the ground per DR G

If the Defense tries to go with Accidental Drowning, How do they then explain Casey's behaviour and actions afterward (duct tape, double bagging, driving around with a dead Caylee in the trunk, disposing of Caylee in a swampy area, partying, lying, stealing..avoiding her family like the plague)
Is this where they will try to bring in ugly coping and psyche issues?

 

[Solace]

What happens if the Defense tries to go with Accidental Drowning?
How do they explain the events afterwards (duct tape, double bagging, driving around with a dead Caylee in the trunk, disposing of Caylee in a swampy area, partying, lying, stealing..avoiding her family like the plague)
Is this where they will try to bring in ugly coping and psyche issues?

But, But But, isn't it up to KC? She is standing by a kidnapping right?

Also, if they do go with that theory, they are going to say she accidently drowned and KC was so "afraid" of Cindy that she hid the whole thing and tried to make it look like a kidnapping because of her fear of Cindy. IMO

 

[Intermezzo]

defense is going with "caylee drowned" or at least CM kept asking Dr G if caylee could have drowned

HMMM... the first thing that comes to mind is

Can Dr G even determine if a drowning occurred when there was no body, only Skeletal Remains? I'm thinking NO, but I don't know.

Can someone who knows answer that for me, please.

 

[beach]

CM's drowning "defense" is actually starting to convince me...now I think it was an intentional homicidal drowning with duct tape. Thanks, CM!:seeya:

<snip>

This could be one explanation for the K9 hit in the backyard by the playhouse.

eta: And the pool ladder being moved, per CA.

This is blowing my mind. I have never once considered that she duct taped Caylee then threw her in the pool to drown, but it seems very plausible now.