long weekend break: discuss the latest here #101

[Gypsy Road]

I want a "Do you have a memory problem?" ~ Juan Martinez bumper sticker.

HA HA! I just busted out laughing!

My husband has been watching the trial with me when he can catch it, and for the last month we having been kidding around with each other and swapping catch phrases from the trial. "It makes my brain scramble", "That's Right", "That's not what I said", "De-Edify", and so on, but "Do you have a problem with your memory, Ma'am" seems to be my hubby's favorite! He can imitate Juan now perfectly! HA HA!:floorlaugh:

 

[rose222]

Just glanced at the television (usually I listen to it) and saw JVM waving a freaking gun around.

Looks like she's at a range (?) but WHO THE BLOODY HECK let her wave that thing towards (if not at) the camera crew????

My brother and I were firing guns into targets at age 5. I helped my grandfather make his own shotgun shells. My first perfect bulls eye was with a .45 revolver when I was 11. When he died I inherited that pistol and an antique rifle.

The most important thing I learned from my grandfather was that you DO.NOT.POINT.A.GUN.AT.ANYONE.EVER. Not an unloaded gun. Not a toy gun (kinda ruined the whole water pistol thing for me, but hey)... the only time he ever got mad at me was over forgetting how important gun safety is. I never pointed a gun at any living thing - human or not - and I hope I'm never in a position to consider it.

I really hope someone set JVM straight on this - just seeing that kind of carelessness sends a shiver through me. More importantly - she should tape a re-do to educate not only herself but anyone watching.

Thank you, Grandpa...

Exactly. That is rule number 1. Never ever point a gun at any living being ever. Unloaded or not.

 

[VALee]

Random thought and if it's been discussed before I apologize, but does anyone know if the bottle of KY was ever discovered? I'm curious if that also got packed up with the gun, the knife, the rope etc during the 'frenzied' (NOT, as if, very meticulous clean up) crime?

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

Yes, this is a seperate set of papers which he claimed that #535 was his original work sheet, however, #550 ( I believe I have those #s correct) was in fact the originals, the ones he was suppose to bring in. It does get confusing. Dr. S claimed the only difference (holes vs no holes) was that the copy was made from the original before the holes were punched. In fact, the comments and / or score on one section was entirely changed to benefit JA.

So how many counting errors does this make for Dr. Samuels now? In the C section of one test, he had only marked one, but later claimed he had miscounted and it was actually 4, in the D section I believe he had originally counted 2 and on proofing it claims he found several more. Now I could see miscounting if the number was something like 894 but who miscounts a list of numbers under 6? And now this "doctored" transcription / fake original dilema.
If you are wondering what that was that flew out the courtroom window today, it was Dr. Samuel's credibility followed closely by JA's last hope in H3ll of him helping her.

That's very detailed and impressive, but his last shred of credibility flew out when he said Jodi was not jealous, and gave as a reason that she was going to see Ryan. ?????? Like nobody who starts dating someone else could be jealous of a past lover? And like seeing Ryan wasn't an obvious pretext for taking her road trip of murder?

He's a fraud. I hope the Law of Attraction crap is real and he gets his just desserts.

 

[sourgrapes]

PTSD self test. don't tell me we can't fake this to make us all seem like we are suffering. Everyone take the test! And these are samples of the type of questions. Just look at them, I can tell what it wants me to say, and if I say it I'm stressed

http://www.reshealth.org/rhcservices/behavioral/ptsd.cfm

For closing, I think JM should put this test up on the courtroom's whiteboard and have everyone on the jury take the test.

After a reasonable amount of time has passed, he should then throw up the score interpretations.

Perhaps, he could go one step further and have the jurors answer the test questions the way they believe someone with PTSD would answer them.

Then, ask them if they believe an experienced liar would be able to skirt the test?

 

[minusfour]

Jodi's lack of remorse, and her claims about Travis keep me awake at night.
Can I ask you all- do you think Jodi wishes this had never happened, that she could turn back time, if only because she was caught, and now has to face the consequences?

 

[runningwater]

Couple of days ago Nancy Grace was on AC 360 discussing Jodi Arias case .... and Anderson noticed Nancy's necklace ---pair of handcuffs

Well, now it seems that either someone stole it from her or she lost it ...

Not long ago I was watching AC 360 ... at the end they have that Rediculist thingy on AC 360 .. and NG was on .. it was pretty funny ...

Anyone caught it also, maybe?

It was really funny...there is a reward for her necklace...lol,lol...
She thinks Anderson nicked it...so funny...
She was so droll...I was laughing out loud...

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

For closing, I think JM should put this test up on the courtroom's whiteboard and have everyone on the jury take the test.

After a reasonable amount of time has passed, he should then throw up the score interpretations.

Perhaps, he could go one step further and have the jurors answer the test questions the way they believe someone with PTSD would answer them.

Then, ask them if they believe an experienced liar would be able to skirt the test?

Is there some place we can see the actual questions, all of them, she was asked in this test? I want to know which questions would screen for someone lying. This doctor keeps acting as if only someone with an astronomical IQ would be able to fake symptoms of PTSD. I think that, even if you have only heard about it in passing, most people at least have a general idea of what PTSD does to a person. I also think that Jodi is very mindful of, when she lies, to pepper in some truth. So questions she answered on that test probably would reflect that. For instance when the doctor was trying to say that her scores could be even higher, if her intent was to make it seem as if she was immensely traumatized... Well, yea on some of the questions - like was she having nightmares - she could answer truthfully. All of her stories, IMO, has a little truth to it. Travis on his knees, saying he couldn't feel his legs, etc, I think that actually happened.

Anyway, I think that JM has done a suitable job of discrediting this doctor. Aside from all of his calculation errors, he also implied that when Jodi told him her wrists AND legs were bound, that he could have just added the "and legs" in error since that is something that people often say. Seriously? So, what you are saying is that we can't trust your notes either? Not only that, but you don't know that compassion and sympathy is the same thing? Not only do you not know the definition of compassion, you also have no clue what the definition of "gift" is. I mean, seriously - I would discount his entire testimony.


I can't wait until the state has its chance to put up their expert. Should be veeeery interesting. I have a sneaking suspicion that they are going to be 100x more credible.

 

[Steely Dan]

I'm not feeling well so I watched today's testimony archived on Youtube. Here are some observations I made:

Some of the juror questions make me believe that there are jurors who are buying the BS Gus Jr. is selling, and it aint a prepaid legal card.

Some of the juror questions make me believe that there are jurors who have Jodi nailed as exactly what she is.

Those two thoughts lead me to believe that it will be a lengthy deliberation.

I think some jurors believe that he deliberately changed the numbers on Jodi's tests and others don't. One thing that bothers me is that JM never mentioned whether it made the score better or worse for Jodi.

I think the defense did a much better job of rehabilitating Gus Jr. with the jury questions and Wilmotts recross. JM did his usual good job of cross, but I don't think he did much new damage. He does however have three days to prepare some more questions.

I've heard that Gus Jr. sent Jodi greeting cards, but I don't recall that ever being said. I think it would have come up in jury questions. Does anyone have a link to it?

Personally, I think that Gus Jr. fell under the spell that JA seems to have over men for a little while. I think he tailored some of her tests in order to make her look better.

All JMO

 

[PPKik]

Jodi's lack of remorse, and her claims about Travis keep me awake at night.
Can I ask you all- do you think Jodi wishes this had never happened, that she could turn back time, if only because she was caught, and now has to face the consequences?

For what it's worth, if only because she was caught.
After enduring her arrogance and her smug games while being relentlessly cross examined by the brilliant JM, and knowing she knows what the family has to see, hear and endure, I think she is enjoying this trial and her starring role in it (and being the only one who knows exactly what happened on June 4). I'm sure JA still believes a jury will never convict her.

Hope you have better luck sleeping than I do. Trying some JW and Samuels on redirect right now.

 

[gngr~snap]

For what it's worth, if only because she was caught.
After enduring her arrogance and her smug games while being relentlessly cross examined by the brilliant JM, and knowing she knows what the family has to see, hear and endure, I think she is enjoying this trial and her starring role in it (and being the only one who knows exactly what happened on June 4). I'm sure JA still believes a jury will never convict her.

Hope you have better luck sleeping than I do. Trying some JW and Samuels on redirect right now.

:doh: I'm thinking "I have never heard of that!"
cold med?
mixed drink?

ohhhhhhh.... JW and Samuels....

Yes! That does the trick for me! ZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz.......

 

[rose222]

Jodi's lack of remorse, and her claims about Travis keep me awake at night.
Can I ask you all- do you think Jodi wishes this had never happened, that she could turn back time, if only because she was caught, and now has to face the consequences?

No way. No remorse. I think she wishes she had better planned the murder. That is all.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

The greeting card thing was objected to and so wasn't asked.

 

[pferrin]

Jodi is playing her own story in her mind. She is thrilled because
She is the director and star of this entire show.
Once she is locked away in prison and we rememberMr Martinez
But have trouble recalling her name....then she will blame
Others for putting her in the Arizona prison mansion
God bless Travis family

 

[bsk]

I'm not feeling well so I watched today's testimony archived on Youtube. Here are some observations I made:

Some of the juror questions make me believe that there are jurors who are buying the BS Gus Jr. is selling, and it aint a prepaid legal card.

Some of the juror questions make me believe that there are jurors who have Jodi nailed as exactly what she is.

Those two thoughts lead me to believe that it will be a lengthy deliberation.

I think some jurors believe that he deliberately changed the numbers on Jodi's tests and others don't. One thing that bothers me is that JM never mentioned whether it made the score better or worse for Jodi.

I think the defense did a much better job of rehabilitating Gus Jr. with the jury questions and Wilmotts recross. JM did his usual good job of cross, but I don't think he did much new damage. He does however have three days to prepare some more questions.

I've heard that Gus Jr. sent Jodi greeting cards, but I don't recall that ever being said. I think it would have come up in jury questions. Does anyone have a link to it?

Personally, I think that Gus Jr. fell under the spell that JA seems to have over men for a little while. I think he tailored some of her tests in order to make her look better.

All JMO

It's hard to read some of the jury questions. A few were about premeditation, and Willmott eventually got some hints in about that even though he wasn't supposed to testify about it. Are they looking for an excuse to believe her? Several questions were definitely people honing in on Gus Jr's inconsistencies.

Re changing the numbers - That seems to be the area Juan is just starting into. I'm sure there are several jurors who "get it": instead of proving a hypothesis of PTSD, he decided up front that PTSD was the conclusion and then had to doctor the facts after the fact.

Re JW's rehabilitation - I'm not sure she helped. She had to bore the jury by making it a 3rd direct exam. She reminded the jury of many of his inconsistencies, and even added a new one - Nurmi and the shaking. She also reminded the jury of his unethical behavior. But getting in some premeditation comments was a big plus from her POV. But he is so obviously trying to spin for Jodi instead of acting like an expert that it should really turn some of the jury off.

Presumably the cards would have HAD to come through the jail's procedure for correspondence. If they really were greeting cards I don't see why the judge would have excluded that unless no copy was made before she received them.

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

I'm not feeling well so I watched today's testimony archived on Youtube. Here are some observations I made:

Some of the juror questions make me believe that there are jurors who are buying the BS Gus Jr. is selling, and it aint a prepaid legal card.

Some of the juror questions make me believe that there are jurors who have Jodi nailed as exactly what she is.

Those two thoughts lead me to believe that it will be a lengthy deliberation.

I think some jurors believe that he deliberately changed the numbers on Jodi's tests and others don't. One thing that bothers me is that JM never mentioned whether it made the score better or worse for Jodi.

I think the defense did a much better job of rehabilitating Gus Jr. with the jury questions and Wilmotts recross. JM did his usual good job of cross, but I don't think he did much new damage. He does however have three days to prepare some more questions.

I've heard that Gus Jr. sent Jodi greeting cards, but I don't recall that ever being said. I think it would have come up in jury questions. Does anyone have a link to it?

Personally, I think that Gus Jr. fell under the spell that JA seems to have over men for a little while. I think he tailored some of her tests in order to make her look better.

All JMO

The jury question that bothered me yesterday was when someone asked about a emotional "dam" breaking after the first shot, and if that would account for the overkill. They didn't use the word overkill, they said something about the excessive stabbing. I sort of felt like that question could have come from the same person who asked if Travis could have stopped to pick up the camera, and that's why he wasn't right behind her. Both sounded as if they are honestly buying her story. So if it is coming from one person, here is to hoping they don't make it into the 12. I can't imagine what kind of nonsensical person could believe that anyone ran into that closet during that struggle, nor who could excuse away 27-29 stab wounds, and a slashed throat, by suggesting that a dam of pent of anger was unleashed once he was shot in the face. ESPECIALLY when the ME said he was shot last. Has the defense put up a ME to say that he could have been shot first? Do they plan to?

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

Let me say this - I am a Gemini and I often find myself looking at things from both sides of the coin. I also tend to muddle in the "shades of gray" that life often finds us in. Not all situations are black or white. I came into this case late, but with an opened mind. I hadn't even heard of Jodi Arias until she had been on the stand for several days. I took the time to do as much research as I could, ignoring the "opinion" pieces, and just looked at the facts. And, for me, the fact is that she wants us to give her FAR too much benefit of the doubt in order to buy what she is selling.

We have to discount ALL of the signs of premeditation:

• Stolen gun of the same caliber.
• Car rental out of city.
• The reported hair color change on the way to AZ.
• The tampered license plates.
• The gas cans. (Which she filled up twice - once before, second after - Was this so she wouldn't have to explain why she used the gas upon returning the cans?)
• Not telling anyone she was going to AZ. (Did she even tell Travis?)
• NO RECORDS of her stepping foot in AZ - (No credit card transactions, although she used credit cards before entering and after leaving the state. No cell phone pings.)

We have to discount everything the crime scene, the photographs, and the ME tells us:

• No way to actually tie someone up to that sleigh-style bed.
• No mess in the closet; Shelves that could not support anyone but a small child's body weight.
• No/little blood from the gunshot wound and neck slash, suggesting that the heart either wasn't pumping, or was hardly pumping at the time.
• Her body remaining relatively unscathed during the battle, when a man bigger than her would have put up a much better fight on equal ground - suggesting he was caught off guard.
• No blood was tracked out of the house, or left on the doorknob, but we are to believe she left covered in blood.

We also have to discount all of her actions after:

• Managing to make it out of AZ without stopping for gas; if she did stop for gas, she would have done so wearing no shoes and covered and blood. She would have had to pay in cash. (Would that not stand out to people at a gas station?)
• Stopping just before a known roadblock to "clean up" and throw gun and other items away.
• Calling to leave a message to make it sound like she wasn't there.
• Continuing on with her plans, although she was in a state of shock. (Did the man she went to see - forgot his name, was it Ryan? - say that she seemed different to him? That she looked like she had just been in a fight for her life? A cold heart can move on as if nothing happened, but one that is in distress?)

And that doesn't even take into account all of the lies she told detectives, her ever changing story and her TV interviews.

What signs, in all of that, points to her innocence? What, in all of that, tells me that she was a woman who had no choice but to kill another human being in order to protect herself? Based on her OWN story, she got away twice - once when she "rolled away" from him, and the second time after she shot him in the face. Twice she got away and twice she made the choice to inflict bodily harm upon him - based on her own story - which, just doesn't make any logical sense.

If she is truly innocent of the charges against her, then maybe God is trying to tell her something and she should just accept the punishment presented, because someone certainly has gone out of their way to make her look guilty and it sure isn't some mere mortal.

 

[momof7]

Is there some place we can see the actual questions, all of them, she was asked in this test? I want to know which questions would screen for someone lying. This doctor keeps acting as if only someone with an astronomical IQ would be able to fake symptoms of PTSD. I think that, even if you have only heard about it in passing, most people at least have a general idea of what PTSD does to a person. I also think that Jodi is very mindful of, when she lies, to pepper in some truth. So questions she answered on that test probably would reflect that. For instance when the doctor was trying to say that her scores could be even higher, if her intent was to make it seem as if she was immensely traumatized... Well, yea on some of the questions - like was she having nightmares - she could answer truthfully. All of her stories, IMO, has a little truth to it. Travis on his knees, saying he couldn't feel his legs, etc, I think that actually happened.

Anyway, I think that JM has done a suitable job of discrediting this doctor. Aside from all of his calculation errors, he also implied that when Jodi told him her wrists AND legs were bound, that he could have just added the "and legs" in error since that is something that people often say. Seriously? So, what you are saying is that we can't trust your notes either? Not only that, but you don't know that compassion and sympathy is the same thing? Not only do you not know the definition of compassion, you also have no clue what the definition of "gift" is. I mean, seriously - I would discount his entire testimony.


I can't wait until the state has its chance to put up their expert. Should be veeeery interesting. I have a sneaking suspicion that they are going to be 100x more credible.

The www was probably JA's best friend. A little searching and a little reading and she could easily know what is needed for the PTSD diagnosis, or the criteria at least to look for.

I also hope the State's witness will be able to piece together for the jury where the real problem is. JA told the story, she was tested while telling the ninja story, there was no way she wasn't faking the answers because the story was fake. She is an actress.

I really just :what: when he said it was not a get out of jail free card.

Kelly

 

[momof7]

The jury question that bothered me yesterday was when someone asked about a emotional "dam" breaking after the first shot, and if that would account for the overkill. They didn't use the word overkill, they said something about the excessive stabbing. I sort of felt like that question could have come from the same person who asked if Travis could have stopped to pick up the camera, and that's why he wasn't right behind her. Both sounded as if they are honestly buying her story. So if it is coming from one person, here is to hoping they don't make it into the 12. I can't imagine what kind of nonsensical person could believe that anyone ran into that closet during that struggle, nor who could excuse away 27-29 stab wounds, and a slashed throat, by suggesting that a dam of pent of anger was unleashed once he was shot in the face. ESPECIALLY when the ME said he was shot last. Has the defense put up a ME to say that he could have been shot first? Do they plan to?

I agree with both you and Steely, there is someone(s) on the jury that are looking at all sides and it is coming across as someone is believing her story. It probably has a bit to do with what kind of person JA comes across as. There is no way she is normal. I think this is the same person(s) that asked if she was diagnosed with any other mental conditions. There is someone on the jury that really thinks she is mentally ill and that is the reason she did what she did. The free pass.

Kelly

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

The www was probably JA's best friend. A little searching and a little reading and she could easily know what is needed for the PTSD diagnosis, or the criteria at least to look for.

I also hope the State's witness will be able to piece together for the jury where the real problem is. JA told the story, she was tested while telling the ninja story, there was no way she wasn't faking the answers because the story was fake. She is an actress.

I really just :what: when he said it was not a get out of jail free card.

Kelly

The whole "PTSD is not a get out of jail free card" thing was definitely one of my favorite moments. JW's face was priceless.

I honestly don't know how much her answers would have changed if she had been telling the self defense story at the time. She was still presenting herself as the "real victim," and would still want to make it look like she was suffering. I wish that someone would have asked if someone was trying to paint themselves in a certain light, wouldn't they then answer the questions in a way that would highlight that. She wants people to believe that she had no choice but to kill TA, just like she wanted them to believe that ninjas did it. A couple of questions would have been answered a little differently, but she still would have been answering the questions, overall, in a way that made her present as suffering a trauma.

Does that make sense? I don't know I am out of it. lol.

Basically, she wanted them to think that the event was traumatic, regardless of if it was the Ninjas who did it, or if she had to do it in self defense. Therefore, she would respond to the questions on the test in a way that would showcase that. :moo: