Luka Magotta AKA Eric Newman Trial, Week beginning Oct 13, 2014 - Trial Thread #2

[Little Jedi]

Here's the 'John Kilbride' e-mail:

 

[BorgQueen]

Apparently, the attachment is invalid.

 

[Rayemonde]

That case in Barrie of the guy, Mark Dobson, who is going for a NCR verdict is wrapping up soon. And as expected it appears that the defence dragged out 3 doctors to state that he is schizophrenic and was in a psychotic state at the time of the murders, while the crown put up their own experts to dispute this. Which is pretty much what this case is going to boil down to. Which "experts" are the jury going to believe.

http://barrie.ctvnews.ca/final-witness-takes-stand-at-dobson-trial-1.2062718

MOO

Just looked this up...

"Dr. Hunter Lorberg, testifying for the defence, said Dobson did not have the mental capacity to understand what he was doing was wrong because he suffered from chronic schizophrenia. He said Dobson believed he could communicate with demons telepathically.

Dr. Percy Wright, testifying for the Crown, said he believed that while Dobson may suffer from a degree of mental illness, he understood that what he did was legally wrong.

"This man has endorsed some very strange beliefs," Wright said on Tuesday. "But it's hard to view them as traditional psychotic symptoms. ... To me, it is more like a religious vision than psychosis." "

http://www.thebarrieexaminer.com/2014/10/21/evidence-completed-in-satanic-trial-in-barrie

 

[Little Jedi]

Well at least Leclair is consistent. Let's smear another witness for absolutely no reason. At least the judge appears to be trying to contain it this time. But as we know with all defence tactics, what is said cannot be unsaid. :notgood:

MOO

:seeya:
He should maybe keep up-to-date with what he uses

Rebekah Brooks

On 24 June 2014, Rebekah Brooks was cleared of all charges related to the phone hacking.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebekah_Brooks

 

[Rayemonde]

I think LM is definitely going to be found guilty, because in most of the other cases I've read about where the person is found NCR it's clear-cut - the prosecution psychiatrists also find that the person was psychotic at the time. I do believe that LM has schizophrenia, because he was diagnosed more than ten years ago, has never spoken about it publicly for attention as he does most things (in fact his lawyer fought to keep the diagnosis from being made public) and has been in and out of mental hospitals over the years. So i don't think it's something he faked for attention or to "get away with" murder; if anything I think it's something he's ashamed of. His behaviour seems to show that he possibly had delusions of grandeur at the time of the murder, thinking that he was some kind of criminal genius who could get away with murder - but still knew that he was committing murder and doing something wrong and illegal. I suspect that he is now medicated and has been brought back down to earth with a crash, because I would have expected him to be loving all the attention and notoriety right now and to me he doesn't seem to be. He hasn't been making a scene or posing in court or attempting to speak to the media or anything like that, which his behaviour before he was arrested led me to expect. He just seems pathetic and pitiful now.

 

[Little Jedi]

Exactly the same as The Sun newspaper, ironically it's a really bad tabloid, very right-wing, still has photos of topless young women on Page 3. Their reporters are always secretly filming people eg celebrities or politicians doing drugs or and then plastering it all over the front page. They also pay people to do kiss and tell stories all the time and their reporting is very xenophobic, homophobic and stigmatises people with mental illness. Honestly, unless this e-mail can be linked to LM by independent experts I don't think it should be in a murder trial. The Sun have been known to make up stories before.

Whilst not disagreeing with your description :biggrin:
It's still Britains biggest selling newspaper by far

List of newspapers in the United Kingdom by circulation

Sun 2,213,659
Daily Mail 1,780,565
Daily Mirror 992,256​

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_newspapers_in_the_United_Kingdom_by_circulation

 

[Kamille]

Here's the 'John Kilbride' e-mail:

View attachment 61937

Well the part they chose to put in print anyway. There are a few more disgusting paragraphs they wisely chose to leave out.

 

[Kamille]

I think he sent the email too but I'd expect some evidence that he actually sent it and on what date before it was used in a court of law... Maybe some evidence will come with a further witness. Although I actually got the impression that the defense are going to admit that he wrote it, but say that it showed he was out of touch with reality and thought he was a character in a movie or something :/ Maybe I'm wrong, it's hard to tell from tweets.

If he sent that email using a computer that LE are not in possession of, then it's going to be next to impossible to prove that it was he who sent it. Even if he used an internet café in London to send it, and they can pinpoint where and when, by the time it became an issue because of the murder of JL, there would be no surveillance video to be found of him on that computer I'm sure. Not to mention the computer in question may not exist anymore either. Time is not helpful to evidence.

And I think Leclair made it known on a couple of occasions that it could not be proven that LM did send it. But I'm sure there are members of the jury that feel as I do and believe that he did. I didn't really follow this case so most of the stuff I'm seeing here, I'm seeing for the first time...just like a jury member would. And if I were on the jury, I'd believe he sent it. Doesn't make sense that anyone else would have. LM worked alone. I think we know that "Manny" is not going to show up in that courtroom.

So to counteract those who believe he sent it, you have to also make sure to indicate that whomever did was delusional right?

MOO

 

[Kamille]

I think LM is definitely going to be found guilty, because in most of the other cases I've read about where the person is found NCR it's clear-cut - the prosecution psychiatrists also find that the person was psychotic at the time. I do believe that LM has schizophrenia, because he was diagnosed more than ten years ago, has never spoken about it publicly for attention as he does most things (in fact his lawyer fought to keep the diagnosis from being made public) and has been in and out of mental hospitals over the years. So i don't think it's something he faked for attention or to "get away with" murder; if anything I think it's something he's ashamed of. His behaviour seems to show that he possibly had delusions of grandeur at the time of the murder, thinking that he was some kind of criminal genius who could get away with murder - but still knew that he was committing murder and doing something wrong and illegal. I suspect that he is now medicated and has been brought back down to earth with a crash, because I would have expected him to be loving all the attention and notoriety right now and to me he doesn't seem to be. He hasn't been making a scene or posing in court or attempting to speak to the media or anything like that, which his behaviour before he was arrested led me to expect. He just seems pathetic and pitiful now.

He did spend time in mental hospitals? I didn't know that. I thought I read that his father is schizophrenic? Don't think he's known for killing animals and at least one human is he? Even while not on medication, I don't think it's a given that schizophrenics are killers. And from what I've seen so far LM really seemed to know that everything he was doing was morally wrong and that it was against the law. He uses the word "caught" on more than one occasion so far. You don't "catch" a person who has no idea that they are being "hunted" because they have no idea they did anything wrong IMO.

Pretty sure that it would not be in LM's best interest to turn on the crazy in that courtroom, especially if he's medicated. I think his end game here is to ultimately get back out into society. Not going to happen if he's acting anything less than remorseful during the trial.

MOO

 

[Little Jedi]

Just to clarify who 'John Kilbride' is .........

Moors murder victim John Kilbride

" John was a 12-year-old child victim of the notorious 'Moors Murderers' Ian Brady and Myra Hindley.

He was abducted from Ashton-Under-Lyne market, (1963) and taken up to Saddleworth Moor.
Here, he was sexually abused, strangled and buried.

John's body was later recovered (1965) and buried in Hurst Cemetry. "

http://www.gonetoosoon.org/memorials/john-kilbride

I am still catching up but noticed some confusing tweets,

One stating Ian Brady was a notorious serial killer in London ??

*Ian Brady was from originally from Glasgow, but the 'Moors Murders' were committed around Saddleworth Moor near Manchester.

http://murderpedia.org/male.B/b/brady-ian.htm

Murder on the Moors: The Ian Brady and Myra Hindley Story

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/moors/index_1.html

 

[Kamille]

By the way, I'm a little confused about why LM was in London and for how long he was there. Is that where he filmed one of the animal killing videos? I was trying to figure out what they were talking about with today's witness matching "blankets" from the video or something like that?

 

[Little Jedi]

So, WHO else besides Luka Magnotta could have had knowledge of the confrontation with Alex West just 48 hours earlier on 8th December in relation to the kitten killing videos, that was so obviously intimated at in the 'John Kilbride' email?

http://magnottafiles.blogspot.com.tr/p/timeline.html

http://magnottafiles.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/the-kitten-gate-conspiracy.html

 

[BorgQueen]

I do believe he sent that email. It follows the patterns of many/most of his other online rants. Lots of 'me' and 'I' used. Very high on himself, too. Just as he went around the internet posting about how good looking he thought he was, he went on about how he is a criminal mastermind who won't get caught. He thought himself a very clever mouse who could not be caught by the cat.
And when he did get caught at that internet cafe... "you got me". Doesn't sound like somebody who doesn't have the capacity to understand that what he did was wrong. He has gotten away with a lot over the years, he truly felt that he wouldn't be caught. And now that he has been caught, he feels that he will ultimately get away with it, much like his hero Homolka.

 

[Little Jedi]

“Sir, you have got a medical problem, and you need to always take medication. If you do not, your life is going to get messed up.”

Those are not my words of wisdom, but the summation by Madam Justice Lauren Marshall taken from the Ontario Courts of Justice transcript during Luka Magnotta's fraud Trial in June 2005.

http://magnottafiles.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/sir-you-have-got-medical-problem-and.html

" Crown lawyer Anna Stanford added: “It is clear from the letter … that Mr. Newman has some significant psychiatric issues that may have contributed to his lack of judgment in these offences.”

The judge ordered him to take his medication, receive treatment for mental health issues and counselling for life skills.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/a-glimpse-inside-magnottas-mind/article4446492/

 

[Kamille]

“Sir, you have got a medical problem, and you need to always take medication. If you do not, your life is going to get messed up.”

Those are not my words of wisdom, but the summation by Madam Justice Lauren Marshall taken from the Ontario Courts of Justice transcript during Luka Magnotta's fraud Trial in June 2005.

http://magnottafiles.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/sir-you-have-got-medical-problem-and.html

" Crown lawyer Anna Stanford added: “It is clear from the letter … that Mr. Newman has some significant psychiatric issues that may have contributed to his lack of judgment in these offences.”

The judge ordered him to take his medication, receive treatment for mental health issues and counselling for life skills.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/a-glimpse-inside-magnottas-mind/article4446492/

So basically he was using "mental illness" as a defence in that case as well. Interesting that he didn't blame "Manny". I guess he wasn't as prolific a liar and storyteller yet at that point.

He friended a 21yr old young woman with the mental capacity of an 8-12yr old on the internet and used her to obtain credit for himself in her name. How is that a mental issue? It's fraud. If he had a mental issue there would be a long list of other, non mentally challenged individuals whom he also tried this with. And he also feared for his own life at the time because he believed this young woman's father was angry enough to hurt him in some way? Again...how is this a mental issue?

Also interesting that his entire "criminal" career and online "famewhore" presence on the internet was done after he changed his name. And that he changed it after this conviction. When the judge ordered him to take his medication and he had to complete community hours and go to counselling. How much did he actually complete as Eric Newman before Luka Magnotta became a person with a clean slate in his mind?

MOO

 

[Little Jedi]

By the way, I'm a little confused about why LM was in London and for how long he was there. Is that where he filmed one of the animal killing videos? I was trying to figure out what they were talking about with today's witness matching "blankets" from the video or something like that?

Here's a bit about his time in London

November 25, 2011:
Two Facebook pages named '1 Cat 1 Christmas' are created. Also several Blogspot accounts are created with the same cat photo and same title. One of the Blogspots (Magnotta) writes "Shot in Islington, a suburb of London, United Kingdom in 2011, the video shows a cute litte kitty interacting with a boy and his pet. The Christmas present is revealed towards the end of the video and is so cute."
..........
November, December 2011:
Magnotta was living in a $60-a-night room above the Fusilier Inn in Wembley, north London, while sightseeing in the capital.

December 2, 2011:
A seven-minute video titled “Python Christmas” is uploaded. A video of kitten being fed to a python.
The video held the message "promises more feeding videos" and was posted on a site called Flix from an account registered in Islington, North London.

A "Linda Collins" uploads the video to LiveLeak and says its from "Islington, London". "Linda Collins" also seems to be very pro-Magnotta in "her" Nov-2011 article " Male Model Falsely Accused of Animal Cruelty"

URL: http://authspot.com/thoughts/luka-magnotta-male-model-falsely-accused-of-animal-cruelty/

December 8, 2011:
The Sun reporter Alex West and his photographer track down Magnotta and hold a 20 minute interview (about the kitten killings). During the interview two cops show up to evict Magnotta from the hotel.

December 12, 2011:
Days later The Sun received an e-mail target to Alex West believed to be sent by Magnotta but signed John Kilbride (a Moors murder victim, ref. May 15, 2012).
The e-mail is in response to the 'Kitten Killer' videos and their interview.

Reporter Alex West is convinced Magnotta sent him the e-mail. *The mail was sent to the Sun from a Dutch computer.*

The Sun reported that their documents were sent to Scotland Yard, but that an investigation did not take place.

URL:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...ngbrlooking-in-his-eyesbr-left-me-shaken.html

2011 December: Kitten Killer vid 'Python Christmas' is uploaded with upload location Islington, London.

2011 December: Sun reporter confronts Magnotta in Wembley, England.

2011 December: Sun reporter receives a taunting mail from Magnotta 'next time i kill humans'

* Magnotta is in Amsterdam now, a fly over back to the US *

^^ This part looks as if they do have more technical details re. e-mail ^^

Please note I haven't checked links within Timeline ~ They've automatically embedded from C&P

http://www.abproject.org/docs/luka_magnotta_-_the_ultimate_timeline_of_events.txt

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

URGE TO KILL:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montr...ut-urge-to-kill-u-k-journalist-says-1.2807509

 

[Little Jedi]

Luka Magnotta diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, 2005 court document says

TORONTO — Luka Magnotta, accused of killing and dismembering a Chinese student, was treated for paranoid schizophrenia, though his doctor said he didn’t always take his medication. A letter from Magnotta’s psychiatrist was attached to the court file of his 2005 conviction for fraud in Toronto

http://www.montrealgazette.com/Luka...a+2005+court+document+says/8189128/story.html

 

[Kamille]

So he filmed those videos in that hotel and then got kicked out of the hotel for not paying the bill. But before that happened, people started matching the interior of the room in the video to that hotel? And told The Sun about it? So they showed up, climbed up the fire escape to "ambush" him with a secretly recorded interview and then the police hauled him out but let him go so he took off for Amsterdam. Where he sent the email to West?

Um...yeah. Not feeling too sorry for him being all ambushed like that. :floorlaugh:

MOO

 

[BorgQueen]

So basically he was using "mental illness" as a defence in that case as well. Interesting that he didn't blame "Manny". I guess he wasn't as prolific a liar and storyteller yet at that point.

He friended a 21yr old young woman with the mental capacity of an 8-12yr old on the internet and used her to obtain credit for himself in her name. How is that a mental issue? It's fraud. If he had a mental issue there would be a long list of other, non mentally challenged individuals whom he also tried this with. And he also feared for his own life at the time because he believed this young woman's father was angry enough to hurt him in some way? Again...how is this a mental issue?

Also interesting that his entire "criminal" career and online "famewhore" presence on the internet was done after he changed his name. And that he changed it after this conviction. When the judge ordered him to take his medication and he had to complete community hours and go to counselling. How much did he actually complete as Eric Newman before Luka Magnotta became a person with a clean slate in his mind?

MOO

He successfully used mental illness as a defence/excuse in that case, so he is hoping it will work for him again. He got away with it.
Unfortunately, mental illness has a stigma around it. People like Magnotta, who use it to excuse and get away with their bad behaviour, feed this stigma. It makes things difficult for good people who suffer from various mental illness.
I don't think it should be allowed as a defence in court. If you murder somebody, you are dangerous. Mental illness or not. These people shouldn't be allowed back out into society. People who have a history of not taking their medication and not going to therapy on a regular basis will continue this after being released (where they are 'free' and not forced to do so). History will repeat. Especially people like Magnotta. He kept getting away with things, and his bad behaviour escalated. Each time he got away with something, he moved on and did something worse. He took pride in it, quite obviously (from that email). And here we are. But... Jun isn't.