MA - Bella Bond, 2, found dead, Deer Island, Boston Harbor, June 2015 - #2

[heartgoesout]

I apologize if this has been discussed. I'm coming in this late. I have a lot of thought on this tonight. I cannot find any reports of the shirt she was wearing. Was she topless or are authorities holding some evidence back?

To possibly answer the question I've been asking like Floridian has, why there? Why Deer Island? Is there swimming on Deer Island? Could she have been swimming or wading in the water and drowned? Maybe she slipped, was knocked unconscience and panicked parent thought she was dead. Autopsy would not show drowning as cause of death and not necessarily suffocation either as heat stroke (from the bag) would be the cause of death. Mind you I do not pretend I know what I'm talking about, just thinking out loud.

I am currently of the opinion this child was loved and taken care, maybe because I can't fathom otherwise, but as someone said above if the person has a reason to believe they may lose their other children or deported this may have been, in their mind, their only answer.

 

[Floridian]

Maybe I'm alone on this or read through too quick. My first impression of the pollen information was that this is residue that was embedded on her, meaning testing showed long term exposure to these specific pollens. Hence, an educated, more than a guess determination that she was from the Boston area. However, the more I read I am now wondering if the reported "dusting" of pollen on the clothing and hair was just from her last environment and/or short term. Possible within hours. I did read that pollen can survive on clothing through washing. What is everyone's take on this? I can't find any info googling. If short term, than her being from the Boston area could be way off.

No ur not alone, I've been questioning the whole pollen testing thing. I also read
A link on here that the bag had the pollen stuff, didn't state she was. If the bag tested positive of course it's gonna be on her. When I asked about that, I got a response not to always believe third party, but it was a new s link. Wasn't the answer I was looking for, so NO your not alone I been wondering the same and have been curious if the pollen was on her bc of the bag. My biggest question is the time a person has to have it on them for the test to pinpoint that. In other words of I live in Kansas and travel to Michigan, obviously I'm gonna have Kansas pollen on me and

 

[Floridian]

I apologize if this has been discussed. I'm coming in this late. I have a lot of thought on this tonight. I cannot find any reports of the shirt she was wearing. Was she topless or are authorities holding some evidence back?

To possibly answer the question I've been asking like Floridian has, why there? Why Deer Island? Is there swimming on Deer Island? Could she have been swimming or wading in the water and drowned? Maybe she slipped, was knocked unconscience and panicked parent thought she was dead. Autopsy would not show drowning as cause of death and not necessarily suffocation either as heat stroke (from the bag) would be the cause of death. Mind you I do not pretend I know what I'm talking about, just thinking out loud.

I am currently of the opinion this child was loved and taken care, maybe because I can't fathom otherwise, but as somueone said above if the person has a reason to believe they may lose their other children or deported this may have been in their mind their only answer.

Some people will swim anywhere.. dirty nasty, snake infested. So what happened we dont know but why that area is a good question. Apparently that particular area is popular because she was founded by someone in a short amount of time. So it wasn't secluded she wasnt being hidden almost like they thought putting her in a bag would conserve her before nature got to her and new she would be found there. What ab dna fingerprints of the devil that did this, that would be on bag unless they wore gloves.,

 

[Floridian]

Some people will swim anywhere.. dirty nasty, snake infested. So what happened we divvy know but why that area is a good question. Apparently that particular area is popular because she was founded by someone in a short amount of time. So it wasn't secluded she wasnt being hidden Ashley like they thought putting her in a bag would conserve her before nature got to her and new age would be found there. What ab dna fingerprints of the devil that did this, that would be on bad unless they wore gloves.,

Overlook the spelling the website makes my phone freeze up and will not let me put my curser in spot to correct spelling

 

[heartgoesout]

I didn't see the article about the pollen found on just the bag. I did assume it was faulty reporting as every other source indicates pants, blanket and a few media outlets include her hair.

Having said that, your Kansas/Michigan is a better example of when I believe pollen testing works ideally.
Body found in Michigan with pollen native to Kansas. Body moved.
In comparison, body found on Deer Island with pollen native to the area. Body is local. Seems simple enough.
However, how long does pollen linger on a body? A day? A week? I can't find this answer.
I was seriously about to google map and scan until I found a house with both privet hedges and cedar of Lebanon trees in the landscape. Those are specific. Put that on the billboard. Do these trees look familiar? Do I look familiar?

 

[heartgoesout]

Fingerprinting is not an exact science. It is my understanding matching fingerprints, even with a sophisticated computer can be difficult. And if your prints are not in the system, well than no match. I bet they have all sorts of fingerprints on that bag. Let's table that as I BET it comes back up later when a suspect is in custody.

 

[Floridian]

I didn't see the article about the pollen found on just the bag. I did assume it was faulty reporting as every other source indicates pants, blanket and a few media outlets include her hair.

Having said that, your Kansas/Michigan is a better example of when I believe pollen testing works ideally.
Body found in Michigan with pollen native to Kansas. Body moved.
In comparison, body found on Deer Island with pollen native to the area. Body is local. Seems simple enough.
However, how long does pollen linger on a body? A day? A week? I can't find this answer.
I was seriously about to google map and scan until I found a house with both privet hedges and cedar of Lebanon trees in the landscape. Those are specific. Put that on the billboard. Do these trees look familiar? Do I look familiar?

http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/mystery-of-baby-doe-troubles-massachusetts-investigators/
The latest development was the result of tests on pollen in the bag, which suggested last week that s

 

[Floridian]

I'm trying to visualize the drop of point. I've seen pics of the rocks beach and water.. but I'm from florida, panama city beach area, our beaches are all accessed by boat or foot, but some areas are not easy to get too and swim at. My question is the location she was put at is it a location u can pull ure vehicle on side of road and walk down to it? Is that spot populated, is it a normal spot that people swim at..can a local pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease answer

 

[Steleheart]

Just to re-hash the mistaken argument that only the bag was tested for pollen, it was inaccurate reporting in SEATLE not BOSTON IMO:

<snipped> UBM;
"Sticky and hardy, the pollen that had floated from the flora surrounding Baby Doe in life had clung to her in death, coating her blanket, leggings, and hair. Detectives already suspected that the child had died locally, but where she had lived had remained a mystery.

On that 41st day, the results of the pollen analysis came back. Baby Doe had played among the pines and oaks of New England; she was dusted with traces of privet hedges and cedar-of-Lebanon, which are not native but are often planted in the suburbs. The soot mixed in with the pollen told investigators her surroundings were urban. Somewhere near Boston, they concluded"

<snipped>
There was no time to dwell on the sealant. Test results had arrived from a Houston lab that had analyzed the pollen in a sample of the girl's hair, as well as her blanket and clothes. The lab had given them reams of data on the presence of 39 types of pollen. Investigators gave the data to scientists at Harvard and Texas A&M and concluded that the combination the lab found, and the proportion of pollens, probably pointed to the Boston area.

http://www.wcvb.com/news/detectives-try-to-id-little-girl-left-dead-on-deer-island/34715284

 

[Hexe]

I have thought about this many times too! I've also wondered if she could be from far away, but brought to Boston shortly before she died. So there would be polen on her, but maybe they went to a park there the day before she died? Just a thought. I hope they don't rule out children from far and wide unless they have more of a reason to KNOW she is local.

It's impossible. The privet starts to flower in June, yes, but the cedars flower and therefore produce pollen, in autumn. The Atlas cedar flowers since Septembet till October and the Lebanese one even later, in november and December. So if Baby Doe got exposed to the cedar pollen she had to spend at least few months in Boston.

 

[Inthedetails]

It's impossible. The privet starts to flower in June, yes, but the cedars flower and therefore produce pollen, in autumn. The Atlas cedar flowers since Septembet till October and the Lebanese one even later, in november and December. So if Baby Doe got exposed to the cedar pollen she had to spend at least few months in Boston.

Botanical sleuthing! Love it.

 

[Faithandhope]

Any word on cause of death?? Last I saw, no mention on COD, just that it wasn't poison/toxin/etc from the first round of testing, but they needed to test for further types of poisons/drugs?

I think COD might help this case. If they deem it accidental, then somebody might feel safe coming forward and saying, hey I know this girl, her parents are nice, I knew it was an accident. OR if it was foul play, someone might come forward because they felt the need to get her justice... Wish we knew!

 

[Inthedetails]

Any word on cause of death?? Last I saw, no mention on COD, just that it wasn't poison/toxin/etc from the first round of testing, but they needed to test for further types of poisons/drugs?

I think COD might help this case. If they deem it accidental, then somebody might feel safe coming forward and saying, hey I know this girl, her parents are nice, I knew it was an accident. OR if it was foul play, someone might come forward because they felt the need to get her justice... Wish we knew!

It's my understanding that the Medical Examiner was unable to determine the COD.

 

[LisaB]

It's impossible. The privet starts to flower in June, yes, but the cedars flower and therefore produce pollen, in autumn. The Atlas cedar flowers since September till October and the Lebanese one even later, in november and December. So if Baby Doe got exposed to the cedar pollen she had to spend at least few months in Boston.

But would the pollen from last year still be around? Say on the floor of a garden shed or something?

 

[carbuff]

Pollen is sticky. If you're out in your yard while the cedars of Lebanon are blooming, some of it will get on your clothing, and can survive there through multiple washings.

 

[carbuff]

I'm trying to visualize the drop of point. I've seen pics of the rocks beach and water.. but I'm from florida, panama city beach area, our beaches are all accessed by boat or foot, but some areas are not easy to get too and swim at. My question is the location she was put at is it a location u can pull ure vehicle on side of road and walk down to it? Is that spot populated, is it a normal spot that people swim at..can a local pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease answer

It's part of the Boston Harbor Islands National Park, which covers a bunch of islands. It's accessible by small boat from the harbor and by vehicle from the town of Winthrop. There's a walking path that circles the perimeter of the island and you can walk down onto the beaches (mostly rocky) and onto the tidal flats. It's day use only (sunrise to sunset) but people taking sunrise pictures, watching moonrise, etc. sometimes stretch that. The recreational strip sort of wraps around the wastewater treatment plant, which takes up most of the island.

In some places the road is right next to the beach, but in others, there's quite a bit of grassy or treed land between road and water.

http://www.nps.gov/boha/learn/historyculture/facts-deer.htm

 

[cvaldez1975]

i believe LE is knowledgeable enough about this testing to infer that if they said she was local, it was more ingrained pollen exposure. we will know more once the isotope testing comes back.

Maybe I'm alone on this or read through too quick. My first impression of the pollen information was that this is residue that was embedded on her, meaning testing showed long term exposure to these specific pollens. Hence, an educated, more than a guess determination that she was from the Boston area. However, the more I read I am now wondering if the reported "dusting" of pollen on the clothing and hair was just from her last environment and/or short term. Possible within hours. I did read that pollen can survive on clothing through washing. What is everyone's take on this? I can't find any info googling. If short term, than her being from the Boston area could be way off.

 

[cvaldez1975]

i read an article that said her pants, blanket and hair was coated with it.

No ur not alone, I've been questioning the whole pollen testing thing. I also read
A link on here that the bag had the pollen stuff, didn't state she was. If the bag tested positive of course it's gonna be on her. When I asked about that, I got a response not to always believe third party, but it was a new s link. Wasn't the answer I was looking for, so NO your not alone I been wondering the same and have been curious if the pollen was on her bc of the bag. My biggest question is the time a person has to have it on them for the test to pinpoint that. In other words of I live in Kansas and travel to Michigan, obviously I'm gonna have Kansas pollen on me and

 

[Donjeta]

Any word on cause of death?? Last I saw, no mention on COD, just that it wasn't poison/toxin/etc from the first round of testing, but they needed to test for further types of poisons/drugs?

I think COD might help this case. If they deem it accidental, then somebody might feel safe coming forward and saying, hey I know this girl, her parents are nice, I knew it was an accident. OR if it was foul play, someone might come forward because they felt the need to get her justice... Wish we knew!

Cause and manner of death are two different things. The medical examiner might determine that someone's cause of death is poisoning, falling, blunt force injuries etc. but without knowing the circumstances of death it wouldn't tell them if it was accidental or a homicide.

 

[Sika]

But would the pollen from last year still be around? Say on the floor of a garden shed or something?

Yes indeed -- and in woodlands as well. Pollen can persist for years, it doesn't really go away. As carbuff said, it is sticky. Its kind of like the Post-It note of the natural world. It has to be just sticky enough to accumulate around the feet of bees and various other insects that flit out and about -- but not so sticky that it doesn't get re-deposited when the insect lands on the flower's mate. Damp pollen may go dormant, but the pollen reactivates once it dries out.

Pollen can be sterilized. In New England, the most common natural cause for sterilization would be winter temperatures. I do not know how that would impact the forensics.