GUILTY MA - Colleen Ritzer, 24, brutally murdered, Danvers, 22 Oct 2013 #2

[jacct]

Next Doctor, Please

The way the case is turning out suggests that the Defense team may have used other mental health professionals for evaluations during the last two years before finding Dr. Dudley. Perhaps earlier mental evaluations of Chism were unhelpful for Defense team purposes. Even Dr. Dudley wouldn't rule out that Chism knows what he did is wrong and, therefore, is legally responsible for the crimes.

Per the reports in the courtroom this is the only Dr. the defense has. The other Dr. was Dr. Jackson, who evaluated Chism when he had his meltdown during jury selection. The judge let the doctor testify but didn't like it, the prosecution didn't even have an opportunity to depose Dr. Jackson. Defense didn't mention Dr. Jackson as a witness until the day before they wanted him on the stand.

The prosecution has 2 experts they will bring in for rebuttal when the defense rests. The defense didn't want these experts to have a copy of Dr. Jackson's report. The judge ruled today that these experts could read the report and talk about it, because the defense brought it in when they had Dr. Jackson on the stand.

 

[Steleheart]

Next Doctor, Please

The way the case is turning out suggests that the Defense team may have used other mental health professionals for evaluations during the last two years before finding Dr. Dudley. Perhaps earlier mental evaluations of Chism were unhelpful for Defense team purposes. Even Dr. Dudley wouldn't rule out that Chism knows what he did is wrong and, therefore, is legally responsible for the crimes.

Very simply, if he didn't know what he was doing was wrong he would not have been hiding his face, changing his clothes, being quiet, etc. He hid because he knew it was wrong.
He is evil, not insane. Disturbed, yes, but that is not some excuse to rape, kill, pose her, rape her again with a tree limb, leave a note expressing his anger, steal her phone, credit cards, underpants and celebrate by going to a movie, then brag as to how she insulted him so he became the teacher.
An angry disturbed young man large enough to overpower, rape and kill a young woman for his own power and control is criminal not insane.

MOO

 

[Skigirl]

Very simply, if he didn't know what he was doing was wrong he would not have been hiding his face, changing his clothes, being quiet, etc. He hid because he knew it was wrong.
He is evil, not insane. Disturbed, yes, but that is not some excuse to rape, kill, pose her, rape her again with a tree limb, leave a note expressing his anger, steal her phone, credit cards, underpants and celebrate by going to a movie, then brag as to how she insulted him so he became the teacher.
An angry disturbed young man large enough to overpower, rape and kill a young woman for his own power and control is criminal not insane.

MOO

Oh dear, I missed the bragging about becoming the teacher part. At what point did he do that? Just when I thought this case couldn't be worse, it is. How creepy.

 

[trixandhoney]

I've watched most of the available video from the trial, but I haven't seen any discussion of how/when CR's body was discovered. The footage I saw detailed the canine finding the recycling bin and other various related items, but I didn't see any details regarding the discovery of her body (just the evidence/DNA recovered afterwards). Did I miss something or is there a reason this (discovery of her body) was excluded? If I missed it, does anyone know when that info was discussed (what day of the trial)? If it was purposely excluded, can anyone explain why?

 

[Masterj]

It was discussed early on, I believe.

 

[Skigirl]

I've watched most of the available video from the trial, but I haven't seen any discussion of how/when CR's body was discovered. The footage I saw detailed the canine finding the recycling bin and other various related items, but I didn't see any details regarding the discovery of her body (just the evidence/DNA recovered afterwards). Did I miss something or is there a reason this (discovery of her body) was excluded? If I missed it, does anyone know when that info was discussed (what day of the trial)? If it was purposely excluded, can anyone explain why?

You missed something. The canine handler and other LE professionals discussed finding her body, and one of her colleagues testified about finding her purse in/near the woods.

 

[Rayemonde]

It seems like some of the same type of evidence that was allowed in the James Homes trial is not being allowed here? Iirc the jury were allowed to hear about the brain scans showing changes consistent with schizophrenia in the Holmes trial, and the psychiatrists were allowed to testify about what he'd told them. The jury were even shown hours and hours of video interview with Holmes, although he never took the stand and so wasn't able to be cross-examined.

 

[Skigirl]

It seems like some of the same type of evidence that was allowed in the James Homes trial is not being allowed here? Iirc the jury were allowed to hear about the brain scans showing changes consistent with schizophrenia in the Holmes trial, and the psychiatrists were allowed to testify about what he'd told them. The jury were even shown hours and hours of video interview with Holmes, although he never took the stand and so wasn't able to be cross-examined.

Other than different states, different judges, the difference is that Holmes actually had a schizophrenia diagnosis, whereas the defense attorney is trying to lead the jurors to conclude that PC is schizophrenic in the absence of a diagnosis by having an expert testify about that his scans versus what's been found in schizophrenia. All PC has been formally diagnosed with is a transient psychotic state brought on by the stress of the trial (as far as psychosis goes).

 

[Steleheart]

Oh dear, I missed the bragging about becoming the teacher part. At what point did he do that? Just when I thought this case couldn't be worse, it is. How creepy.

"According to court documents describing a taped police interview, Philip Chism told officers: 'After she insulted me, that's when I became the teacher.'
Chism, now 16, said Ritzer provoked the attack at Danvers High School, Massachusetts, with a 'trigger' word, which he would not disclose."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-claims-insulted-teacher.html#ixzz3tTtlueXZ

***********************************
The taped interview isn't allowed at trial so the jury will not get all the facts of the case, sadly.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/teens-confession-to-killing-teacher-wont-be-used-at-trial/

"As a result, the judge said, he would allow the statements Chism made to Topsfield police to be introduced as evidence but not his taped confession at the Danvers police station.
He also allowed items gathered at Danvers High School, as well as those seized from Chism's pockets and backpack. They included Ritzer's ID and credit cards, a bloody box cutter and women's underwear."

 

[trixandhoney]

I've watched most of the available video from the trial, but I haven't seen any discussion of how/when CR's body was discovered. The footage I saw detailed the canine finding the recycling bin and other various related items, but I didn't see any details regarding the discovery of her body (just the evidence/DNA recovered afterwards). Did I miss something or is there a reason this (discovery of her body) was excluded? If I missed it, does anyone know when that info was discussed (what day of the trial)? If it was purposely excluded, can anyone explain why?

In case anyone else comes in late like I did and spends an embarrassing amount of time looking for videos on YouTube: the judge kicked out all media on the 19th and 20th of November. Video coverage ends (approximately) after the police canine finds the recycling bin, and there is no video coverage of trial re: the discovery of Colleen's body or the specifics of why the restroom was cleaned (the manager of the custodial team starts to explain it, but more specifics were given later). Luckily, though, Jacct filled in those missing pieces with the live tweets:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...eacher-murdered-by-14-year-old-student/page67

 

[Skigirl]

In case anyone else comes in late like I did and spends an embarrassing amount of time looking for videos on YouTube: the judge kicked out all media on the 19th and 20th of November. Video coverage ends (approximately) after the police canine finds the recycling bin, and there is no video coverage of trial re: the discovery of Colleen's body or the specifics of why the restroom was cleaned (the manager of the custodial team starts to explain it, but more specifics were given later). Luckily, though, Jacct filled in those missing pieces with the live tweets:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...eacher-murdered-by-14-year-old-student/page67

OOps, thanks. I guess the tweets combined with my vivid imagination to fill in the details. Just another datapoint about the unreliability of memory! But didn't we at least hear from the cleaner via translator who told about finding the bloody bathroom and trying to tell the school personnel about the blood but being told to wash it anyway? I could have sworn I saw video of that.

 

[trixandhoney]

Haha skigirl no worries!!!

The cleaner started to explain how he went to tell the custodial managers (of the school) that there was blood in the bathroom, but the testimony from the school custodial managers (and details of how the bathroom was cleaned) came during the days the cameras weren't allowed.

 

[jacct]

It seems like some of the same type of evidence that was allowed in the James Homes trial is not being allowed here? Iirc the jury were allowed to hear about the brain scans showing changes consistent with schizophrenia in the Holmes trial, and the psychiatrists were allowed to testify about what he'd told them. The jury were even shown hours and hours of video interview with Holmes, although he never took the stand and so wasn't able to be cross-examined.

This is where I think the defense made a mistake, they used the wrong Dr. Gur.

Dr. Rachel Gur testified in Holmes, she is an expert in schizophrenia and has testified as an expert on schizophrenia before. She did interview Holmes and reviewed all of the material from other psych. reports (or at least the ones the defense gave her) and was the only psych. Dr. that diagnosed Holmes with schizophrenia. She brought in the MRIs and brain volume information and even referred to her husbands research on brain volume and schizophrenia. I was surprised that the defense didn't use her as their expert.

Dr. Ruben Gur, the expert the defense in Chism wanted to use, doesn't have the qualification to diagnose or treat schizophrenia and he can only say that based on his research Chism has the same brain volume as others that have been diagnosed with schizophrenia. To get around that the defense wanted to bring in another psychiatrist to say that based on Dr. Ruben Gur's research the psychiatrist would diagnose Chism with schizophrenia (even though he didn't interview Chism). If the defense had just used Rachel instead of Ruben they would have been able to bring the MRI stuff in, like it was in Holmes.

 

[jacct]

Ethan Hartley ‏@Ehartley_DH_BC 4m4 minutes ago Salem, MA
Back live in Salem for #PhilipChism trial. Defense expert Dr. Richard Dudley will resume testimony today. Jury could deliberate this week

Twitter: https://twitter.com/hashtag/philipchism?f=tweets&vertical=default

Livestreams:
http://www.wildabouttrial.com/one_off/live-stream-3/
http://worldjusticenews.com/philip-chism-live-stream2.htm
http://www.wcvb.com/news/newscenter-5-breaking-news/26098608

 

[AnaTeresa]

I agree. The brain scans didn't come in, because no one had diagnosed Chism with schizophrenia. The defense didn't lay enough of a foundation for that evidence to be admitted. :twocents:

 

[jacct]

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago

#PhilipChism mom and Ritzer parents are in the courtroom, awaiting Judge Lowy

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 3m3 minutes ago
#PhilipChism just brought in, he's wearing a black suit

Ethan Hartley ‏@Ehartley_DH_BC 2m2 minutes ago Salem, MA
Court now in session for the #PhilipChism trial. Attorneys go to sidebar to begin. Jury not in courtroom yet

Laurel J. SweetVerified account ‏@Laurel_Sweet 1m1 minute ago
As Judge David A. Lowy takes the bench, defense attorney Denise Regan requests immediate sidebar.#PhilipChism appears to watch them.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 58s58 seconds ago
#PhilipChism defense attorney Denise Regan has motion, wants some questions prohibited during ADA cross of Dudley

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
Defense attorney Susan Oker also has a motion re: #PhilipChism confinement if he's committed to Bridgewater State

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 1m1 minute ago
Defense wants to call Bridgewater superintendent to describe conditions there - wants jury to know what happens if #PhilipChism goes there.

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 1m1 minute ago
Were #PhilipChism to be ordered there before age 18, he'd be staffed "one-on-one," defense says.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
Lowy says he understands motion, will address later

 

[jacct]

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 59s60 seconds ago
Dudley taking the stand again. ADA MacDougall continues her cross of him

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
He says he reviewed DYS records, #PhilipChism was also given IQ testing

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 1m1 minute ago
MacD In 3/2014, #PhilipChism was given IQ test? Dr. Dudley: yes

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 1m1 minute ago
MacD: Results were avg or high avg? Dr. Dudley Correct

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 59s59 seconds ago
MacD: And in 6/15 #PhilipChism was given adult IQ testDr. Dudley: yes.

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 41s41 seconds ago
MacD: And he scored below one percentDr. Dudley: i believe so.

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 53s54 seconds ago
MacD: That's barely functioning.

Victoria WarrenVerified account ‏@vwarrenon7 1m1 minute ago
Questioning about #PhilipChism IQ test. Prosecutor questioning why average IQ 5 months after murder, but less than 1% 18 mos after.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
ADA asks how he could score so low - absent of having a head injury the day b4 test

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 1m1 minute ago
MacD: Is any testing you reviewed from 6/15 shows #PhilipChism was showing pyschosis in 2013?Dr. Dudley No.

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 1m1 minute ago Salem, MA
Dudley confirms there's no testing evidence #PhilipChism was experiencing psychosis before June 2015.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
Dudley said he did no testing of malingering, which would indicate if #PhilipChism was exaggerating or faking symptoms of psychosis

Victoria WarrenVerified account ‏@vwarrenon7 1m1 minute ago
Prosecutor grilling defense expert about how he came to his finding about psychotic disorder, but not malingering.

 

[MsJosie]

Can an IQ test be faked/failed/low score be done on purpose? And would giving more then on test over a certain time frame show that? Also, who writes down the answers, the specialist or the taker? Thanks

 

[jacct]

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 2m2 minutes ago
Dudley concedes he didn't specifically assess malingering, or faking.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 1m1 minute ago
ADA said some who viewed #PhilipChism didn't think he was having auditory hallucinations, hearing voices

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 2m2 minutes ago Salem, MA
Dudley confirms no staff observed #PhilipChism hearing voices when he didn't know he was being watched.

Maria CramerVerified account ‏@GlobeMCramer 2m2 minutes ago
MacDougall asks Dudley to confirm he read reports from other medical staffers who did not see #PhilipChism suffering from hallucinations.

Maria CramerVerified account ‏@GlobeMCramer 2m2 minutes ago
At the time, #PhilipChism did not know he was being observed, MacDougall points out. Dudley said yes, he saw those reports.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
ADA points to DYS report that says #PhilipChism after arrest was at times "exuberant."

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 2m2 minutes ago
ADA: his DYS counselor says #PhilipChism was often flat, but also occasionally exuberant, engaging.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 2m2 minutes ago
Dudley can't find his notes. ADA says only thing he includes in his report was that #PhilipChism suffered childhood trauma

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 2m2 minutes ago
ADA: DYS counselor said she never saw any evidence of psychosis in #PhilipChism in months after arrest.

Ethan Hartley ‏@Ehartley_DH_BC 2m2 minutes ago Salem, MA
MacDougall asks Dudley if he left out details in his report of DYS counselor that evaluated #PhilipChism to bolster his opinion and report

Victoria WarrenVerified account ‏@vwarrenon7 2m2 minutes ago
ADA: 'She never saw anything consistent with him hearing voices' - saying DYS worker didn't see evidence of psychosis.

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 3m3 minutes ago
While Dudley considered some details of DYS counselor - possible trauma - he did not include #PhilipChism acting normal engaged.

Victoria WarrenVerified account ‏@vwarrenon7 2m2 minutes ago
ADA: Is it true your opinion of #PhilipChism onset of psychosis at age 10 based only on interview with Chism? Dr: yes.

allison manningVerified account ‏@allymanning 2m2 minutes ago
ADA: only evidence that #PhilipChism started hearing voices at 10 is Chism's own account. He told others he heard them as early as 5, or 2.

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 3m3 minutes ago
MacD: And he told others he started when he was 2. That would be extremely rare.Dr. Dudley yes

 

[jacct]

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 3m3 minutes ago
MacD: How many voices he reported hearing?Dr. Dudley A voiceMacD: Male or femaleDr. Dudley Eventually male.

Rupa Shenoy ‏@RupaShenoy 3m3 minutes ago Salem, MA
Dudley says #PhilipChism said he was hearing one male voice. He told other clinicians there were more voices, including female voice.

Maria CramerVerified account ‏@GlobeMCramer 3m3 minutes ago
Jurors scribbling furiously aS MacDougall picks apart the idea #PhilipChism began hearing voices as early as 10, as he told Dr. Dudley.

Bob Ward Fox25Verified account ‏@Bward3 3m3 minutes ago
MacD: And that doesn't change your opinion that he wasn't malingering (exaggerating)?Dr. Dudley: No it doesn't

Victoria WarrenVerified account ‏@vwarrenon7 3m3 minutes ago
Dr: It's my opinion he's been experiencing a psychotic disorder ever since. The intensity is what ebbs and flows.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 4m4 minutes ago
"The intensity of the voices is what ebbs and flows." -Dudley #PhilipChism "It's not like he can be lucid and psychotic at same time."

Ethan Hartley ‏@Ehartley_DH_BC 4m4 minutes ago Salem, MA
Dudley says #PhilipChism mental illness does not affect his intelligence. "It's not like he can't be lucid and psychotic at the same time."

Laurel J. SweetVerified account ‏@Laurel_Sweet 4m4 minutes ago
MacDougall needles Dudley that #PhilipChism has told several variations of the voice story to different people.

Jill Harmacinski ‏@EagleTribJill 3m3 minutes ago
After meds, person with psychosis could be "profoundly remorseful" after committing a violent act

Julie Manganis ‏@SNJulieManganis 2m2 minutes ago
DA is seeking to elicit testimony that #PhilipChism did not express remorse or any sign of remorse to the dr. Defense objects