GUILTY MA - Conrad Roy, 18, urged by friend, commits suicide, Fairhaven, 13 July 2014 #2 *guilty*

[monkeypants]

Please watch Cataldo explain on a CNN broadcast how he sees (and believes the court will see) the case:

I will transcribe what he said for you and others:

"I see this as, eh, ah, I think the court will see it as an encouragement case. Massachusetts does not have a law, like some States have, making it a criminal act to assist or encourage suicide. Massachusetts has no such law. Our legislature has decided not to enact such legislation. So this is a case where somebody planned his own death over a lengthy period of time, had previously tried to kill themself, with acetaminophen, almost needed a liver transplant, and had planned this all out."

The above verbatim transcript excerpt came from the CNN link below (start at :40 in the CNN video):

[video=cnn;us/2015/09/02/michelle-carter-attorney-suicide-text-case-lv.cnn]http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/08/us/text-message-suicide-michelle-carter-conrad-roy/index.html[/video]

Edited to add: The video works, but when I put the link here, it turns into a video that doesn't work. Here is the direct link (if this doesn't work, could a mod please help?). Thank you:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/08/us/text-message-suicide-michelle-carter-conrad-roy/index.html
---

Also, I'd like to thank everyone for the welcome by those who were so kind. Much appreciated and heartfelt thanks to all.

For the record Gitana is an attorney and our holy grail in these threads [emoji6]

This is such a heartbreaking case. I want justice for his family. So that they feel some relief that this monster that befriended them doesn't have any sort of life.

 

[HRP]

For the record Gitana is an attorney and our holy grail in these threads [emoji6]

This is such a heartbreaking case. I want justice for his family. So that they feel some relief that this monster that befriended them doesn't have any sort of life.

I did notice that it stated verified attorney and that is why I transcribed verbatim the explanation given to an international news station in regard to what is being explained as Massachusetts law. All I know is what has been hammered into me over the years in regard to the subject and it is the same thing as had been explained to the CNN audience.

I'm not a professional anything, really. I only wanted it to be known what is being said (not by me, but by others).

 

[bessie]

Please watch Cataldo explain on a CNN broadcast how he sees (and believes the court will see) the case:

I will transcribe what he said for you and others:

"I see this as, eh, ah, I think the court will see it as an encouragement case. Massachusetts does not have a law, like some States have, making it a criminal act to assist or encourage suicide. Massachusetts has no such law. Our legislature has decided not to enact such legislation. So this is a case where somebody planned his own death over a lengthy period of time, had previously tried to kill themself, with acetaminophen, almost needed a liver transplant, and had planned this all out."

The above verbatim transcript excerpt came from the CNN link below (start at :40 in the CNN video):



http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/08/us/text-message-suicide-michelle-carter-conrad-roy/index.html
---

Also, I'd like to thank everyone for the welcome by those who were so kind. Much appreciated and heartfelt thanks to all.

Welcome, HRP. I saw you had a problem with the CNN link. I'm afraid that's pretty typical with CNN. The pages are in video format. Sometimes they play nicely, sometimes not. You found the best workaround, though more labor intensive. Thank you for the effort.

:welcome5:

 

[Safeguard]

I did notice that it stated verified attorney and that is why I transcribed verbatim the explanation given to an international news station in regard to what is being explained as Massachusetts law. All I know is what has been hammered into me over the years in regard to the subject and it is the same thing as had been explained to the CNN audience.

I'm not a professional anything, really. I only wanted it to be known what is being said (not by me, but by others).

Hi HRP,
I didn't think for one second, that it escaped your notice that Gitana1 is an attorney. I, personally, have no "Holy Grail" in this or any thread (though I do respect her opinion.), I appreciate your contributions to this thread, you have a good sound grasp on the situation imo. Thanks for the personal antidote, painful to read, (dreadful to have lived that I'm sure!), but you are knowledgeable because of it. You are in fact and "expert" in some ways that are relevant here. Imo of course.

 

[Jewels53]

I've just come to this thread and after reading several of the communications back and forth I cannot read any more.

I have had up close and personal experience losing two friends to suicide over the years and living in the aftermath. The pain for the families is unlike anything anyone can imagine. Friends and family would have done ANYTHING to save their loved ones lives.

This girl is a monster and deserves to be punished. There is something very very wrong with her and I see her as extremely dangerous.

This is a terrible case.

MOO

Tealgrove, I am so sorry what you went through with your friends and appreciate your not being able to stay for that reason.

It has to be really tough to read and listen-watch what MC did to Conrad who really did not want to die that night. MC truly is a Monster for what she did to push him in to committing his suicide. I hope the Judge gives MC proper punishment!

 

[HRP]

Welcome, HRP. I saw you had a problem with the CNN link. I'm afraid that's pretty typical with CNN. The pages are in video format. Sometimes they play nicely, sometimes not. You found the best workaround, though more labor intensive. Thank you for the effort.

:welcome5:

Thank you for the welcome, and I love your avatar! The way Janice sang "Piece of My Heart" makes me think she knew a sociopath at one time--those words are so strong, as was she.

Also, I wanted to post about an interesting article I just read about the case.

Excerpts:

It Looks Like The Woman Accused Of Urging Her Boyfriend To Kill Himself Stole A Quote From "Glee"

Michelle Carter, 20, is on trial for allegedly pressuring Conrad Roy — through text messages — to kill himself. Messages to her friends about Roy's death seem to have drawn inspiration from Glee star Lea Michele.

```

Roy, who was a ship captain, died on July 13, 2014 — exactly one year after Monteith's death on July 13, 2013.


```
Carter said, "One of the hardest parts is feeling like I'm gonna forget everything. And I don't want to. I can still hear his voice so clearly.”

In "The Quarterback," Rachel says to Will, "I can still see his face and I can hear his voice so clearly. Do you think that I'll ever forget it? Because I'm afraid that one day I will."

In a text message to one of Roy's friends in August 2014 — a month after Roy killed himself — Carter used a line from the show to describe their relationship.

"We were endgame we both knew it, he didn’t need to tell anyone that," Carter wrote.

In a Season 4 Glee episode titled "I Do," Finn tells Rachel, "We are endgame. I know that and you know that."

````
More at link:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall...essages-glee?utm_term=.unKvdBRyMn#.bvNB83xl52

 

[HRP]

Hi HRP,
I didn't think for one second, that it escaped your notice that Gitana1 is an attorney. I, personally, have no "Holy Grail" in this or any thread (though I do respect her opinion.), I appreciate your contributions to this thread, you have a good sound grasp on the situation imo. Thanks for the personal antidote, painful to read, (dreadful to have live that I'm sure!), but you are knowledgeable because of it. You are in fact and "expert" in some ways that are relevant here. Imo of course.

Thank you for your kindness. I'm just a regular person who doesn't see myself as a victim and who wants to occasionally share my humble opinions.

 

[Safeguard]

@HRP
Your clearly very observant. I greatly appreciate the thoughtful, respectful way you joined in here. Your "humble opinions" are very much welcome. I look forward to hearing more of them.

 

[Lilibet]

Thank you for the welcome, and I love your avatar! The way Janice sang "Piece of My Heart" makes me think she knew a sociopath at one time--those words are so strong, as was she.

Also, I wanted to post about an interesting article I just read about the case.

Excerpts:

It Looks Like The Woman Accused Of Urging Her Boyfriend To Kill Himself Stole A Quote From "Glee"

Michelle Carter, 20, is on trial for allegedly pressuring Conrad Roy — through text messages — to kill himself. Messages to her friends about Roy's death seem to have drawn inspiration from Glee star Lea Michele.

```

Roy, who was a ship captain, died on July 13, 2014 — exactly one year after Monteith's death on July 13, 2013.


```
Carter said, "One of the hardest parts is feeling like I'm gonna forget everything. And I don't want to. I can still hear his voice so clearly.”

In "The Quarterback," Rachel says to Will, "I can still see his face and I can hear his voice so clearly. Do you think that I'll ever forget it? Because I'm afraid that one day I will."

In a text message to one of Roy's friends in August 2014 — a month after Roy killed himself — Carter used a line from the show to describe their relationship.

"We were endgame we both knew it, he didn’t need to tell anyone that," Carter wrote.

In a Season 4 Glee episode titled "I Do," Finn tells Rachel, "We are endgame. I know that and you know that."

````
More at link:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall...essages-glee?utm_term=.unKvdBRyMn#.bvNB83xl52

Yay Buzzfeed!! How great that Buzzfeed followed up on this in such depth. I could tell when the person brought this to everyone's attention in the comments (in the link you posted earlier as your source) that other posters were on it like we were...contacting the author of the article and the D.A.

It's interesting to find out that MC was a huge fan of Lea Michele (her favorite person). As a commenter on this article mentioned, MC had to copy other people's words to express emotions she knew she should feel. She also seems to want to be just like Michele. I think it's quite possibly significant that Monteith and Roy died a year apart to the day. Does anyone think it's possible that MC pushed him so hard partly for that reason? I wonder. Any way you look at it, it's depraved and evil.

 

[Safeguard]

Yay Buzzfeed!! How great that Buzzfeed followed up on this in such depth. I could tell when the person brought this to everyone's attention in the comments (in the link you posted earlier as your source) that other posters were on it like we were...contacting the author of the article and the D.A.

It's interesting to find out that MC was a huge fan of Lea Michele (her favorite person). As a commenter on this article mentioned, MC had to copy other people's words to express emotions she knew she should feel. She also seems to want to be just like Michele. I think it's quite possibly significant that Monteith and Roy died a year apart to the day. Does anyone think it's possible that MC pushed him so hard partly for that reason? I wonder. Any way you look at it, it's depraved and evil.

bbm

Absolutely. I believe it. I was stunned to learn that. I can't believe how she just "became" that character from Glee, after Conrad died. She doesn't have a human soul. She had to mimic someone who does. Uhhggg.

 

[Jennifer17]

That is how psychopaths blend into the world. They have no empathy, but learn to mimic other's behaviour and use it to their own ends.

 

[LvsAMystry]

I wanted to put links in the quick comment I made yesterday in regard to Glee and I couldn't and found out the thread was closed. I wanted to post what I read in regard to the similarities in Glee's actress's dialogue and Carter's.

I found this yesterday when reading a report, here is the excerpt with the link:

She texted Boardman that she had her “whole life” planned out with Roy.
“He was going to graduate Fitchburg and then when I graduated the college I'm going to, we would live happily ever after on the ocean somewhere, with our son Conrad the 4th....Now it's gonna be something different, maybe something better, But I just don't think that's possible. He was my person.”

https://www.buzzfeed.com/tasneemnas...read-testimony?utm_term=.qrbAwn6AW#.wkJOW6ZO8

More information gleaned from those who commented on not only the "He was my person" Glee knockoff (allegedly), but from comments this was found out, copied and pasted for your review:

Like comments/wording extraction and comparison:

Carter: "I had my whole life planned out with 'Roy'... we would live happily ever after ...Now it's gonna be something different, maybe something better, But I just don't think that's possible. He was my person."

Rachel Berry Dialogue/Exchange, Glee, Season 5 Episode 3 (Finn's Memorial) at the end: "I had it all planned out... then we would live happily ever after... And now what? I don't know. Something different. Maybe something better. I just, I don't think that's possible. He was my person."

Dialogue: Rachel: I had it all planned out. I was gonna make it big on Broadway and maybe make a Woody Allen movie. And then when we were ready, I would just, come back and he'd be teaching here and I'd walk through those doors and I would just say 'I'm home' and then we would live happily ever after.
Will: That's a good plan. Did you tell him?
Rachel: I didn't have to, he knew.
Will: And now what?
Rachel: I don't know. Something different.
Will: Maybe something better.
Rachel: I just-I don't think that's possible. He was my person.

W-T-F...

Nice catch wow.

 

[zencompass]

Brilliant catch. "Fifty Shades of Psychopathic Tendencies"

 

[Tigerlily75]

That is how psychopaths blend into the world. They have no empathy, but learn to mimic other's behaviour and use it to their own ends.

Yes! Exactly this.

 

[LaneGirl]

That is how psychopaths blend into the world. They have no empathy, but learn to mimic other's behaviour and use it to their own ends.

And many of them are successful people that have never committed a crime...yikes.

 

[Tigerlily75]

I'm just catching up on this case, it's definitely an interesting - and heartbreaking case.

I'm no legal expert, but I've just watched the video where the defense tries to get the case dismissed, and found the defense attorneys statements about it just being "words" and that she was not physically there, made me think of "murder for hire" cases.

If a person offers someone $10,000 to kill their wife, and they are 1500 miles away when the "job" is done, that too is just "words" and they are not physically there. They didn't pull the trigger. But they are still clearly responsible for the death.

"Words" can definitely kill. That kind of thing can surely not be considered "free speech". Is there much of a difference? Especially that she was knowingly dealing with an emotionally fragile person, she knew her words would likely lead to his death.

 

[gitana1]

Please watch Cataldo explain on a CNN broadcast how he sees (and believes the court will see) the case:

I will transcribe what he said for you and others:

"I see this as, eh, ah, I think the court will see it as an encouragement case. Massachusetts does not have a law, like some States have, making it a criminal act to assist or encourage suicide. Massachusetts has no such law. Our legislature has decided not to enact such legislation. So this is a case where somebody planned his own death over a lengthy period of time, had previously tried to kill themself, with acetaminophen, almost needed a liver transplant, and had planned this all out."

The above verbatim transcript excerpt came from the CNN link below (start at :40 in the CNN video):



http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/08/us/text-message-suicide-michelle-carter-conrad-roy/index.html
---

Also, I'd like to thank everyone for the welcome by those who were so kind. Much appreciated and heartfelt thanks to all.

There would be no reason to try continuously to pass assisted suicide laws if assisted suicide was legal in MA.

Cataldo is a defense attorney. So of course he is going to make arguments he feels will benefit his client, whether he is speaking entirely truthfully or not.

There is no specific code section criminalizing suicide or assisted suicide. Which is what Cataldo is basing his arguments on. However, he omits the fact that the common law continues to hold suicide and assisted suicide to be illegal - a crime.

I can see why that can be confusing. I hope I made it somewhat clearer:


Assisted suicide is governed by common law in Massachusetts. Common law is a body of law that is based on custom and general principles and is embodied in case law that serves as precedent or is applied to situations not covered by statute. In general, assisted suicide is covered by the murder statute and a statute within the laws for health care proxies.
http://euthanasia.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=005104

Current law regarding assisted suicide
Assisted suicide, including doctor-prescribed suicide, is a common law crime in Massachusetts.
Failed attempts to permit doctor-prescribed suicide

Bills were proposed in:
1995 (H 3173)
1997 (H 1543)
2009 (H 1468)
2011 (H 2233)
2012 Question 2 (voter initiative) Analysis of Question 2
2013 – 2014 (H 1998)
2015-2016 (H 1991)

On Tuesday, November 6, 2012, Massachusetts citizens defeated a measure (Question 2) that would have permitted doctor-prescribed suicide.The ballot question cannot be put before voters again until 2018. However, in 2013, proponents then introduced a doctor-prescribed suicide bill, H1998, in the legislature. That bill also failed.
http://www.patientsrightscouncil.org/site/massachusetts/

But because suicide is a crime, assisting a suicide is also a crime. So, the Commonwealth need not prove that Carter was the immediate cause of Roy’s death. It would be enough to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she intended to assist his suicide and that she did so.
http://newbostonpost.com/2015/10/08/michelle-carter-and-the-case-against-assisted-suicide/

 

[Safeguard]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40226332

"But Mr Cataldo reminded the judge, who will be determining the verdict after Ms Carter opted to forgo a jury trial, that Massachusetts is one of about 10 states that do not criminalize assisted suicide."

I think it is "unlawful" to assist in a suicide in MA, but not illegal...( or are those terms interchangeable? I am reading up and seeing some sources using "illegal" and some using "unlawful"... Not criminal seems to be key, however).

If something is unlawful, it means it is against the law, but not necessarily a criminal act; it can be a civil wrong, for which the wrongdoer may be sued, but will unlikely face criminal prosecution.

Illegal describes an act that is unlawful and also a criminal act.
As I understand it; ‘legal’ refers to statute legislation and ‘lawful’ refers to constitutional and common law. Lawful is higher than legal.

So... as Carter cannot be criminally charged with assisting, they are going with manslaughter?

 

[The Farm]

And many of them are successful people that have never committed a crime...yikes.

Good Morning all,
Dont quote me on this but I remember reading years ago that a pyychopath does not always commit henious crimes but just ruin other peoples lives. So I wonder if there is a trigger.
Example, I have an EX sister-inlaw that is an extreme psychopath, actually so are many members of her family.
After many terrible years of marriage my brother opted out. He had to come to my house to hide, it was terrible. She found out he was here and started coming to my property which I told her to get out but she would not listen. The police were called many times.
What is very creepy is we found out that she had a million dollar life insurance policy on my brother!!! He had no clue, he was working three jobs to keep her where she wanted to be. We also found out that she had forged his name on credit cards etc.She hid it all.
She still to this day is after him and she is remarried. The poor guy.
We often wonder if she would have killed him or had him killed for that money. Would there have been a trigger? What is it that pushes them, such as what Michelle has done to Conrad.
Also I am wondering are psychopathic behaviors generational and passed down because her whole family is a bunch a crackpots.

 

[ninij9]

I know squat about law. But I think that if miss Carter is found innocent, it could be a catastrophic case to have on the books. She really needs to be held legally responsible for her actions and inactions in regards to Mr Roy. I get why they chose a judge. They are hoping for a purely clinical, lawful decision. She would be hanged by a jury of laymen and women. The judge can professionally sit back and consider her actions with the detachment and experience of his training.

I really hope he gets it right. Beyond any other reason, this young woman is dangerous. Can you imagine her having children? A relationship? A job? It makes me ill.

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