MA MA - Joan Risch, 30, Lincoln, 24 Oct 1961

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BostonSu, there is no proof in the original report. I think there's confusion because phones used to be a lot different from the way they are now. In the 1960s, the handsets didn't just unplug. They were attached. That's why even the police and FBI reports refer to the phone being ripped off the wall.

Yes, but there is a difference in the amount of force needed to rip a handset out, and to rip an entire phone from the wall. As a small child, I actually "ripped" the handset from my parents phone playing with it. It's not a pop out, as we have now, but it doesn't require a lot of strength or anger. As I said once before, if she was in pain, and pulled on it hard, it could come out.

Not saying that's what happened, but trying to be clear that there is a difference.
 
Liz, you are correct, sort of... you posted several newspaper links back in December, one of which (below) states Martin Risch's fingerprint (not bloody) was found on the phone. Not to be a wise guy, but to the Newspaper,of course his prints would have been found on just about anything in the house. So, I guess there was not retraction because technically they printed a correct statement.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?i...FAAAAIBAJ&pg=3035,6089099&dq=joan-risch&hl=en

It doesn't actually say whether they were bloody prints or not. Only that his prints were found on the phone. jmo

also, I really have to wonder why LE asked martin Risch if Joan was pregnant.
 
It doesn't actually say whether they were bloody prints or not. Only that his prints were found on the phone. jmo

also, I really have to wonder why LE asked martin Risch if Joan was pregnant.

Liz, so we don't dwell on your first point too much, can we pretty much stipulate Martin Risch was not in the house during the time frame when the incident occurred? Honestly, the newspaper should have done a better job in describing Martin's prints. To a casual observer, it probably is confusing and makes one consider where the husband is in all of this. But, we here on WebSleuths are not casual observers (ha ha) Now, moving on...your second question is more intriguing and right up my alley. I believe you and I have discussed Martin Risch's behavior and answers before. Again, for the record, I truly believe he had nothing to do directly with her disappearance and demise. That being said, I really believe he knew more than he stated for the record (that is available to us...) So, yes, you raise a great question and one that plays into my theory. I would love to know the basis for asking the question? I cannot point to anything in a document but I do have a brain and I can only think of two reasons why they would ask.
 
Liz, so we don't dwell on your first point too much, can we pretty much stipulate Martin Risch was not in the house during the time frame when the incident occurred? Honestly, the newspaper should have done a better job in describing Martin's prints. To a casual observer, it probably is confusing and makes one consider where the husband is in all of this. But, we here on WebSleuths are not casual observers (ha ha) Now, moving on...your second question is more intriguing and right up my alley. I believe you and I have discussed Martin Risch's behavior and answers before. Again, for the record, I truly believe he had nothing to do directly with her disappearance and demise. That being said, I really believe he knew more than he stated for the record (that is available to us...) So, yes, you raise a great question and one that plays into my theory. I would love to know the basis for asking the question? I cannot point to anything in a document but I do have a brain and I can only think of two reasons why they would ask.

I know, he wasn't there when this happened. What are the two reasons ? The one that immediately comes tomind for me is that LE thought she may have had an abortion. jmo
 
IDK, but back in these threads there is a news report which stated that Mr. Risch's bloody print was found. I have only seen this once, but have never seen a retraction.

Can you please link to it?
 
Maybe he didn't actually believe she was alive. Maybe he sent someone to kill her, a la Teresa Sievers. He had an alibi, and it would be in his interest for people to think she just wandered off.

What do you suppose would be his motive? I never read anything where he profited financially nor a lover waiting in the wings. He continued to live in the same house.
 
joans story is both intriguing and frusterating. My thoughts&questions of the key points in this case goes as follows~

1. The day Joan disappeared was a busy one. While I do think the botched abortion theory holds water- I don't think it was done the day of her disappearance. That leads me to ask - What was Joan's day like the day before the disappearance? The day before her vanishing was the day her husband left for business-correct? does anyone know the details regarding Joan's schedule or whereabouts the day before her disappearance?

2. The intruder theory is also plausible, because so little is known about the events that transpired, it's can't be ruled out that Joan met with foul play with a stranger/random attacker. However the problem with that theory to me is A) the lack of noise or evidence of a violent struggle. It's hard for me to imagine that a woman being attacked in her suburban home during the day- with her children in close proximity- wouldn't of screamed, hollared, or made any noise alerting the neighbors or leaving a trace of her fighting off a second person or persons. B) the window of opportunity between when Joan dropped off Lilian to when BB brought Lilian back to when BB arrived home to see Lilian in the yard- I feel is too narrow and specific for a random person to know exactly when someone would be coming back to the Risch home. They would of have to be extremely swift or extremely lucky to have attacked Joan and abduct her from her home in that amount of time without going unnoticed.

3. I tend to lean towards the medical emergency theory- whatever it might have been. It makes the most sense to me- looking at the evidence and circumstances. However, I have the same problem with the intruder theory.. I can't imagine going through a medical emergency alone with an infant in my home and not screaming or doing anything to alert to anyone or call for help in anyway. I know the phone was off the jack suggestionig she could of grabbed it then fell and jerked it out the wall. But again, I feel for her to be overcome with pain or illness- whether it be gynecological or undiagnosed- bleed out- fall to the ground for sometime as the blood in the photos suggest, only to regain stability, stand up, walk out her home- too disoriented to know who she was, where she was going, or to alert anyone for help- seems awfully narrow and improbably to happen within the timeline we are given to where Joan went missing from her home.

4. The liquor bottle in the waste basket bothers me. I don't know if Joan was a drinker, or perhaps it was her husbands that never made it to the trash can, but it seems so obvious and out of place to me.

5. Mr. Barker was once accused of having involvement with Joan's disappearance. I know the evidence on the theory is almost nonexistent but here is my speculation on how he could of had involvement. He and Joan could of been having an affair in some way. Joan could of been pregnant, not knowing if it was her husbands or Mr.Bakers, which could give reasoning behind the abortion theory- as all reports indicates she loved her kids so that makes sense as why she would want the procedure if she did indeed have one leading up to her diappearance. Mr. Barker met her at the home, either with an abortionist or perhaps tried to perform it themselves, something went wrong and they drove off with Joan. Even if she didn't the speculation can still continue as follows- Mr. Baker went over to the Risch home and either with intentions to harm Joan, or perhaps an altercation had occurred that injured Joan. After which he took her to a location, perhaps by some land/property owned by the Barkers, and disposed of the body. One step further- BB knew of the affair and knew of her husbands intentions to call it off. It was back in the 60s, and divorced was still almost nonexistent. Perhaps she accepted the affair, as a lot of women did, and knew of her husbands intentions - whether them be just confrontational or harmful. Which would explain why BB was so suspicious when leaving Lilian home without confirming someone was there. Maybe if there was screaming or calls of help sent towards the Bakers from the Risch home, it went unnoticed.Maybe that's how the corse of events fit so seemlessly within the timeline of BB bringing back Lillian and returning from the store. Although, BB did call the police upon her discovery of the "red paint" in the kitchen. Again, far fetched with no evidence to support- just based on my speculation.

6. The husband could of hired someone to kill Joan for any number of reasons - affairs, money, etc.. I don't know if there was any kind of life insurance policy for Joan, but it does strike me odd that Mr. Risch always just assumed she ran off and the family never made any feverous attempt to find Joan or investigate her fate. Then again it was reported that he always kept the same phone number with the thought he may hear from her again one day. Again, only speculation, it could just be how he and the family chose to deal with Joan's disappearance or the attitude of the time.

Thanks for listening!

Bunny, I am very interested in your point # 5. Do you have a source for him being accused or being a person of interest? I am not busting your chops, it is just something I have never read, although the pdf file referenced severl times here attempts to make some cloudy connection of Joan Risch being buried under some undeveloped (at the time) land a Barker family member may have owned in the next town.
 
Can you please link to it?

Yes, please see my post # 217. the newspaper link is there. The paper refers to Mr Risch's prints on the phone as being a dead end lead. The LE cleared him. I did notice that he spoke of his wife in the past tense when interviewed by LE. How times change,huh ? Today something like that would likely make LE give him the side eye...jmo
 
I know, he wasn't there when this happened. What are the two reasons ? The one that immediately comes tomind for me is that LE thought she may have had an abortion. jmo

Two reasons you ask?

Either LE heard about the possible pregnancy from somone (ex. neighbor) or they found or observed something within the house to suggest she may have been pregnant. Specifically what? I can only speculate? A hidden diary? A letter, pregnancy kit? Menstrual blood?
 
has there ever been in updated stories in regards to the children as to what they think may have happened to their mother?
 
jgfitzge, we must be neighbors of a sort. I live in the area too. One thing that strikes me is that a lot of these places still don't have sidewalks. Did they back then? How on earth did she get so far without many many many more people noticing a woman walking on rather busy roads? Ok, sure, there were a lot more woods, but would she have been able to successfully traverse those woods and end up out where she was seen? I wonder if the local papers have microfilm articles still available at the library. I might give that a gander next time I have a couple of free hours.
 
OnePH, good to have a local, home of SB 51Champions:) on board. Funny thing about Lincoln is the current population is not much larger than what it was in 1960 (5600 vs 6300) In fact the population has declined over the last 20 years. Now, i was only 5 at the time and am not familiar with the commuting/traffic in 1961 in that area. Nowadays, it is jammed during commuter times. I assume it was somewhat busy (?) because of the growth of all the tech and defense companies along the 128 corridor at the time. Now, as far as where JR went and the sightings, well I am on record as believing the eyewitness sightings. They were independent of each other and no motivation to lie. Now, from her house to 2A (the first sighting) is a short walk and there are woods involved. Now for the sightings on 128, I am of the opinion she didn't just walk from 2A to the section of 128 near Trapelo Road. There are still a lot of wooded areas around 2, 2A, an 128.
 
OnePH, good to have a local, home of SB 51Champions:) on board. Funny thing about Lincoln is the current population is not much larger than what it was in 1960 (5600 vs 6300) In fact the population has declined over the last 20 years. Now, i was only 5 at the time and am not familiar with the commuting/traffic in 1961 in that area. Nowadays, it is jammed during commuter times. I assume it was somewhat busy (?) because of the growth of all the tech and defense companies along the 128 corridor at the time. Now, as far as where JR went and the sightings, well I am on record as believing the eyewitness sightings. They were independent of each other and no motivation to lie. Now, from her house to 2A (the first sighting) is a short walk and there are woods involved. Now for the sightings on 128, I am of the opinion she didn't just walk from 2A to the section of 128 near Trapelo Road. There are still a lot of wooded areas around 2, 2A, an 128.
I would be inclined to agree with you. IF she had walked to 128, there would have been a shed-load of sightings, not a handful.
ETA: The GOAT! (Dreadfully OT, apologies to everyone else)
 
Yes, please see my post # 217. the newspaper link is there. The paper refers to Mr Risch's prints on the phone as being a dead end lead. The LE cleared him. I did notice that he spoke of his wife in the past tense when interviewed by LE. How times change,huh ? Today something like that would likely make LE give him the side eye...jmo

Liz b. if this isn't the link you're referring to, would you please paste it into a separate message since there were so many links in your post #217? https://news.google.com/newspapers?...FAAAAIBAJ&pg=3035,6089099&dq=joan-risch&hl=en

I am confused by your earlier reference to a bloody print. The link just said that her husband's fingerprints were in the kitchen. That is not significant since he lived in the house, used the phone, etc. It doesn't say his prints were bloody, which would be significant since it would put him at the scene of the crime when he was supposed to be in NY at the time when she was attacked and until after she was reported missing.

I agree that the reference to her in the past tense is interesting and it was noted at the time by LE. But since he wasn't at the scene, they lost interest in him as a suspect. Still, I have always wondered if he hired someone to make her disappear. Yes, he never remarried, but that doesn't mean he wanted to be married to her. He didn't do a whole lot to find her as far as I can tell, and he would be far from the first seemingly happily married man to want to make his wife go away.
 
Liz b. if this isn't the link you're referring to, would you please paste it into a separate message since there were so many links in your post #217? https://news.google.com/newspapers?...FAAAAIBAJ&pg=3035,6089099&dq=joan-risch&hl=en

I am confused by your earlier reference to a bloody print. The link just said that her husband's fingerprints were in the kitchen. That is not significant since he lived in the house, used the phone, etc. It doesn't say his prints were bloody, which would be significant since it would put him at the scene of the crime when he was supposed to be in NY at the time when she was attacked and until after she was reported missing.

I agree that the reference to her in the past tense is interesting and it was noted at the time by LE. But since he wasn't at the scene, they lost interest in him as a suspect. Still, I have always wondered if he hired someone to make her disappear. Yes, he never remarried, but that doesn't mean he wanted to be married to her. He didn't do a whole lot to find her as far as I can tell, and he would be far from the first seemingly happily married man to want to make his wife go away.

Sorry, that was my error, the reference was to fingerprints, not bloody fingerprints. I had wondered why Mr. Risch believed Joan was still alive ? Did he ever hire a PI , I wonder ? I have a difficult time believing Joan would have walked away and left her 2 year old son alone. Likewise her daughter. Have you ever wondered about the beer bottles, and liquor bottle that were left in the kitchen trashcan ? I know Mr. Risch had an explanation, but something about all the empties bothers me. JMO
 
Sorry, that was my error, the reference was to fingerprints, not bloody fingerprints. I had wondered why Mr. Risch believed Joan was still alive ? Did he ever hire a PI , I wonder ? I have a difficult time believing Joan would have walked away and left her 2 year old son alone. Likewise her daughter. Have you ever wondered about the beer bottles, and liquor bottle that were left in the kitchen trashcan ? I know Mr. Risch had an explanation, but something about all the empties bothers me. JMO

I agree about the empties; they do seem odd to me. I also don't believe that Joan walked away from her kids. I don't believe she had a home abortion scheduled, and I don't think the dental visit was actually anything other than a dental visit. I am alone in thinking this, I think, but my best guess is that her husband paid someone to make her disappear: that's why he had a hastily-arranged business trip, that's why he spoke of her in the past tense, that's why he continued to assert that she was probably still alive someplace. I think that he may have requested that she pick up the books about disappearances from the library, just to plant that seed as well.
 
I agree about the empties; they do seem odd to me. I also don't believe that Joan walked away from her kids. I don't believe she had a home abortion scheduled, and I don't think the dental visit was actually anything other than a dental visit. I am alone in thinking this, I think, but my best guess is that her husband paid someone to make her disappear: that's why he had a hastily-arranged business trip, that's why he spoke of her in the past tense, that's why he continued to assert that she was probably still alive someplace. I think that he may have requested that she pick up the books about disappearances from the library, just to plant that seed as well.

Skigirl, I am with you up until your speculation about Martin Risch paying someone to make her disappear. He was a sales exec who regularly traveled. Was there an interview where the NY trip was termed "hastily arranged?" As for the books, let's assume Martin had her take out those library books. Twenty-Five books over the summer, Joan was an intelligent woman, I would think at some point she would have said something to a friend, "Martin had me check out more of those mystery/disappearing books...

I totally get how the husband more often than not is the one allegedly responsible in cases like this. I have seen it all the time, even locally here I can cite several examples. But, in the Risch case I just don't see it. Based on all the theories about this case, Martin Risch would have had to have done some intense planning. Here are some reasons why I don't see him arranging her disappearance. Let me preface each with IMO.

He and the family were the "newbies" in the Lincoln neighborhood. How would he go about asking around and making the arrangements? If it was trial and error, surely someone would have come forward and told LE. Where does a Harvard MBA, sales executive, stranger in the area go about this? Simple equation is, More Planning = More people know.

He never remarried or had a girl friend waiting in the wings

He stayed in the same house and even had the house relocated to another part of Lincoln. If he really pulled it off, I would think he would move elsewhere. So staying put was all an act?

It doesn't appear he reaped a financial windfall from her disappearance.

If he hired someone to kill her, why didn't the perp just kill Joan in the house? Why let her escape and be seen?

The timing and place, he probably had a general idea of her daily tasks, but how would he know if one or both kids would be in or out of the house. Wouldn't it have been better to abduct her when she was alone shopping?

The blue/gray car, was it the perp hired by Martin? If yes, why was he there a week before when the mailman saw the car?

This last point may be bit controversial but, it is just the way I have seen things go down in life....If Martin Risch did indeed arrange for his wife's disappearance, and local LE thought this as well, I believe local LE would go to any length to bust him. He wasn't "connected" in the local establishment, whereas perhaps other locals were.
 
Re: Hastily arranged, Risch's police interview -- in the PDF linked to upthread, said he arranged the trip the day before her disappearance.

Re: Where would an business person find a hitman... hundreds of people who are considerably less intelligent and who have considerably fewer resources have figured out how to find a hitman. And the smarter ones are less likely to get caught.

Exhibits A, B, and C:
http://abc13.com/archive/9251140/
http://abcnews.go.com/US/bob-bashara-sentenced-hiring-hitman-involved-wifes-murder/story?id=17926817
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-hit-man-sentence-20140618-story.html

I'm afraid I can't offer examples of people who were not caught, since, well, they were not caught.

Re: Not remarrying. Wanting to marry someone else isn't the only motive someone might have for murder.


Skigirl, I am with you up until your speculation about Martin Risch paying someone to make her disappear. He was a sales exec who regularly traveled. Was there an interview where the NY trip was termed "hastily arranged?" As for the books, let's assume Martin had her take out those library books. Twenty-Five books over the summer, Joan was an intelligent woman, I would think at some point she would have said something to a friend, "Martin had me check out more of those mystery/disappearing books...

I totally get how the husband more often than not is the one allegedly responsible in cases like this. I have seen it all the time, even locally here I can cite several examples. But, in the Risch case I just don't see it. Based on all the theories about this case, Martin Risch would have had to have done some intense planning. Here are some reasons why I don't see him arranging her disappearance. Let me preface each with IMO.

He and the family were the "newbies" in the Lincoln neighborhood. How would he go about asking around and making the arrangements? If it was trial and error, surely someone would have come forward and told LE. Where does a Harvard MBA, sales executive, stranger in the area go about this? Simple equation is, More Planning = More people know.

He never remarried or had a girl friend waiting in the wings

He stayed in the same house and even had the house relocated to another part of Lincoln. If he really pulled it off, I would think he would move elsewhere. So staying put was all an act?

It doesn't appear he reaped a financial windfall from her disappearance.

If he hired someone to kill her, why didn't the perp just kill Joan in the house? Why let her escape and be seen?

The timing and place, he probably had a general idea of her daily tasks, but how would he know if one or both kids would be in or out of the house. Wouldn't it have been better to abduct her when she was alone shopping?

The blue/gray car, was it the perp hired by Martin? If yes, why was he there a week before when the mailman saw the car?

This last point may be bit controversial but, it is just the way I have seen things go down in life....If Martin Risch did indeed arrange for his wife's disappearance, and local LE thought this as well, I believe local LE would go to any length to bust him. He wasn't "connected" in the local establishment, whereas perhaps other locals were.
 
Re: Hastily arranged, Risch's police interview -- in the PDF linked to upthread, said he arranged the trip the day before her disappearance.

Re: Where would an business person find a hitman... hundreds of people who are considerably less intelligent and who have considerably fewer resources have figured out how to find a hitman. And the smarter ones are less likely to get caught.

Exhibits A, B, and C:
http://abc13.com/archive/9251140/
http://abcnews.go.com/US/bob-bashara-sentenced-hiring-hitman-involved-wifes-murder/story?id=17926817
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-hit-man-sentence-20140618-story.html

I'm afraid I can't offer examples of people who were not caught, since, well, they were not caught.

Re: Not remarrying. Wanting to marry someone else isn't the only motive someone might have for murder.


LE did not believe he had anything to do with it, and since the husband/boyfriend is generally the immediate suspect, I tend to think Martin had no involvement.
 
The empty beer and liquor bottles : in one report I read, the garbage container in the kitchen was described as "overflowing" with bottles. I wonder : did Joan drink on the afternoon she went missing ? Could she maybe have been inebriated ? I wonder if Martin Risch felt the need to "cover" for her by saying that they had both drank the whisky the night before, and guests had also drank the beer ? It might explain her wandering off ? IDK, jmo the bottles somehow seem "off" to me...
 

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