MA MA - Molly Bish, 16, Warren, 27 Jun 2000

[somequestions]

In the case of Molly Bish, there is one aspect of the crime that you can actually narrow down. If it was a stranger abduction, then narrowing down who might have planned her abduction could be as simple as researching everything from the day she started work at Commins Pond to the day of her abduction. I think it was only her fifth day of work so the opportunity to plan the crime might have been very small. OR the person is already very familiar with the location of the pond in relation to the cemetery and simply knew that was an easy escape route. Then the timing does not mean much.

One can guess the white car seen by the cemetery worker was parked at the southernmost part of the cemetery so this person could get her into the car quickest. If it was not parked on the southernmost road of the cemetery I would think that strange. If I saw a female wearing just a bathing suit walking around a cemetery as opposed to regular clothing I would think something was odd.

So who had funerals at St. Paul's cemetery during the time Molly Bish worked at Commins Pond?
What type of dates are on the gravestones of those in southernmost part of the cemetery?
Who dropped off flowers at a grave during the time Molly Bish worked at Commins Pond? Maybe one of those people saw something?
Was there any electric company work done in the area by someone in a lift or by a tree trimming company? Maybe they saw something?
When was the last time the lawn was mowed at the cemetery? Maybe that person saw something?
What connects Commins Pond to St. Paul's Cemetary, other than maybe a property line or town boundary?

I think you have to ask questions like these and maybe you get lucky with some information.

 

[somequestions]

I wanted to correct some info in an earlier post (320). I cannot figure out how to edit a post.

I wrote that Commins Pond and St. Paul Cemetery are divided by a town boundary. This is wrong. Both the pond and the cemetery are located within the town of Warrens, MA. The towns of West Brookfield and Brookfield are further east. So the police officer on Dark Minds show, that was not part of his jurisdiction. He was probably just part of the earlier coordination of police departments working together to search for Molly Bish early on when she went missing. Sometimes the misconceptions about a case are from people who get their facts wrong.

Sometimes with any murder case, especially on a forum like Websleuths, there is a tendency to think too much into the case. So lets stick with the facts or things reasonably certain.

1. Molly Bish was kidnapped on Tuesday, June 27th, 2000. There was possibly earlier surveillance of her on Monday, June 26th. What this means to me is that whoever kidnapped her needed to probably have an entire day or two off.

2. Whoever kidnapped and murdered Molly Bish is comfortable with ascending and descending hills, whether pulling someone by the hand or carrying a body. They might be trained this way and that is why it is not a big deal to them.

3. At both crime scenes, the perspective is from above. This person would have to come down from above to kidnap her at the Commins Pond Beach. They would also be able to look out over the slope and down at the road at the spot where it is believed she was buried. Person might possibly work in a lift like a tree trimmer.


4. The first aid kit was open but the emergency radio was not used. And I am guessing nothing was found on the ground during the course of a struggle like a band aid or gauze. In lifeguarding there is this rule when you are the only lifeguard to call first although I do not know under what circumstances that applies. A cut on the finger probably would not require ambulance attention.

I know all of these conclusions except for the date of her kidnapping are very loose and not solid. All these facts taken together and remembering that Molly Bish would have to be found in order to guess at the mapping profile, I could come up with an educated guess. If I were a detective in June 2003 there would be one place I would visit in each town. It is yet another guess but hopefully better than my map reading. It is easy to figure out what that place is.

 

[somequestions]

I went through the all the comments since 2003 about Molly Bish's case. There was one interesting piece of information. When Molly Bish took her lifeguard certification classes, she took them in the town of Southbridge. I thought it would be Warrens. Southbridge is the town the main suspect, "the hunter" is from according to the show Dark Minds. It just goes to show you that when you do not have all the information or the correct information it is a lot more difficult to even make educated guesses. Hopefully this case can finally get solved.

 

[somequestions]

There is so much that points to "the hunter" being the person who kidnapped and murdered Molly Bish. I read on here that his birthplace was Warren, MA so now it makes sense as to how he would be familiar with Commins Pond.

In the interview with the young reporter Molly Bish's mother said that she wished she had taught Molly to be more of a fighter which made me think about her being a lifeguard. If someone were watching a lifeguard it is strange they would not assume the person might be physically inclined to want to fight them off. But maybe the guy brought a knife and since fisherman use knives and "the hunter" fished at Commins Pond, that makes sense.

If this was a planned crime, then maybe Molly Bish was taken to a specific place after she was kidnapped. Since "the hunter" was familiar with Whiskey Hill, maybe he knew of some house up in that area.

I saw this story on t.v. one time about a criminal who murdered a woman's daughter and once the guy went to prison, she was allowed to burn down the house. The fire department used it as a training exercise. I am guessing all abandoned buildings around Whiskey Hill were checked out by police for clues. Then you have to keep in mind she was not found for 3 years.

All you can do is guess as to what happened in this case.

 

[somequestions]

Psychologically whenever a profile is constructed I think it has to be in simple terms. I started thinking about one of my profile points, that the killer's perspective would be from above. Maybe it does not have to do with the landscape at all, but of the individual. Maybe this person "looks down" on others. Maybe it is a tall person?

In many cases, when police have a good suspect that usually ends up being the right person. It is not like t.v. or the movies. But my profile would be

1. Lives between Commins Pond and Ware, MA or travels it a lot. I know this does not fit the hunter suspect.

2. Has some physical strength at least in dragging or carrying a heavy object up a hill. What did "the hunter" do for a living?

3. Might be a tall individual. Was "the hunter" a tall person?

And all of these profile points are guesses that may or may not be correct. That is my profile.

 

[somequestions]

There was one last profile point I wanted to add:

On the episode of Dark Minds, the author asks why Molly Bish was not kidnapped on Monday and thinks maybe it was because Mrs. Bish saw him. I know what I am about to write is not a popular idea, but suppose for a second the white car has nothing to do with the case. If you factor in Molly Bish's start time at the pond, the day of the week might mean something or it might not.

Maybe the kidnapper chose Tuesday because they were tired on Monday?

 

[somequestions]

One of the more difficult things about web sleuthing is not knowing certain information.

Who was in Molly Bish's lifeguard class? When I took my class there were coaches from the university also in the class because you receive more than just lifeguard certification. You also receive first aid certification and AED certification in addition to the lifeguarding certification.

Where there other lifeguards at Commins Pond? What days did Molly Bish work? Was it common knowledge among her friends that she would be lifeguarding there that summer?

There is a lot of circumstantial evidence pointing to the hunter suspect. He hunted where her body was found meaning that he had to travel the same road her body was found next to and since he murdered his girlfriend and had trinkets from young girls in his trailer, that is a big coincidence if he was out at Commins Pond.

The police are at a big disadvantage with this case. Since Molly Bish's remains were not found for almost 3 years, there was no way to know what happened or where she went. If this is a stranger abduction, without any witnesses it is a very hard case to solve. The mapping really does not mean anything. The suspect might or might not be a tall person. My profile is as much a guess as anything.

About the only thing I can even think of to do at the beginning of the investigation would be to make sure she was not taken by someone she knew. So the one thing to check would be to make sure no one put the cart before the horse. After a few days when it is very public that Molly Bish is missing, and people have helped in the search, then bring in all the friends of Molly Bish. Then make sure that all of them state that they were asked by their parents if they had seen or heard from Molly Bish. It would not prove anything, but might provide a direction to move towards early on in the investigation especially if the individual helped in the search. I am trying to think like an investigator so maybe this was already done.

After 15 1/2 years if a case is not solved it should at least be investigated as close to a conclusion as is possible.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Several videos on YouTube. Its been 6 months now since the new DNA testing was going to be done. Should we consider that as being no connection to current suspects/nothing in data base if they were able to obtain any new profiles etc? Do we to continue to wait for the results, if they are going to release that.
The mother would know.

 

[scriptgirl]

What DNA testing?

 

[colette]

What DNA testing?

They found a bag in the woods under a log. Inside there was a pair of shorts that looked like the one Molly was wearing that day. Only her swimsuit was found. Here is an article/video about this: http://www.wcvb.com/news/possible-n...year-old-lifeguard-molly-bish/26680024#!4COqg

 

[Ray_of_hope]

http://boston.cbslocal.com/tag/molly-bish/feed/
I found this link to many feeds from the case.

 

[Tssiemer]

Hmmm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bessie]

:bump:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Just fyi if you search for Molly Bish in the search box all the threads come up archived.
I am not trying to argue but I always search first.

Thanks for connecting this to the other thread.

 

[bessie]

Just fyi if you search for Molly Bish in the search box all the threads come up archived.
I am not trying to argue but I always search first.

Thanks for connecting this to the other thread.

I don't know how you searched, but searching "Bish" in the Cold Case forum, and searching "Bish" in thread titles through Advanced Search does not bring up archived threads. There is only one Molly Bish thread, this one, and it never has been archived.

 

[wendybtn]

I have not followed the investigation in this case closely since Ms. Bish's remains were recovered. Was there not some circumstantial evidence or other evidence that pointed to a Massachusetts man who moved to Florida and died while incarcerated? Or am I thinking of another case?

 

[somequestions]

Haunting Evidence, that old show about psychics that try to solve crimes, did an episode about Molly Bish's case. Unlike many of their episodes, I actually agreed with their assessment of the individual who committed this crime. What is kind of unique about Molly Bish's case is time. It takes time to watch someone set up a chair, lay out a towel, take off sandals, prepare a first aid kit. It takes time to dig a hole to bury a body when you could just leave it and go. The person who committed this crime does not seem to be fazed by time. Whereas another kidnapper might immediately grab the victim, this one watches the victim first. Whereas another murderer might just dump the body and leave, this one digs a hole and on the side of a hill too. I do not think they had any concern for whether Molly Bish was ever found. After all, Molly Bish was not found for nearly 3 years and it might have been longer.

On the Haunting Evidence episode, the psychics described him as someone who might work in a medical office and be very organized. Doctor, nurse, EMT, lifeguard, Red Cross worker, funeral home worker, someone who is not fazed by an emergency or maybe even by a dead body. This person seems like they are calm, cool, and collected. I also think they have some upper body strength.

In lifeguarding, in order to participate in the class you have to swim 500 yards straight without stopping. I never prepared for this so after I barely finished, and I do mean barely, when I got out of the water my arm muscles were burning. I came to realize that where swimming really helps with physical fitness is upper body and arm strength.

So the profile for this person would be calm under pressure and physically fit, whether a trail runner or a swimmer. Maybe they run laps in the neighborhood where Molly Bish was kidnapped or maybe they do swim laps at the local YMCA. I know that describes a lot of people. My profile is a guess.

The time aspect of this crime really makes me think the murderer would not just pick out anyone he sees for the first time. If he really did put planning and thought into his crime like the psychics on Haunting Evidence said, wouldn't that be a waste a time?

 

[somequestions]

I had another theory. This theory is based on on the white car being important and Molly Bish not having any previous association with her kidnapper/murderer. It is completely different from what I wrote before, the other side of looking at the case for me. Here is the theory:

Molly Bish's mom sees the white car the day before when she drops Molly off at the pond. The next day, the day of the kidnapping, the cemetery worker also sees a white car in the cemetery. The kidnapper takes Molly Bish in a white car. He drives her to his home or other place and leaves her there. He returns the white car to the dealership and picks up his own vehicle. The vehicle is very important because even with just a white car description the kidnapper has to assume somebody might have seen it. We know now since Molly Bish was found on Whiskey Hill in Palmer, MA. that he was most likely not from somewhere very far away. So police could pull registrations for white cars in the area and the last thing he needs is police knocking on the door with Molly Bish hidden there or someone reporting a white car parked in a secluded place.

After returning to home or hideout place, he murders Molly Bish probably sometime between Tuesday and Thursday of that week and buries her body on Whiskey Hill in Palmer, MA. Friday he is back at work. Tuesday thru Thursday are the slow days in the car selling business and him not being there during those days is normal to the people he works with. That is the theory.

I came up with this theory after reading a book about buying cars. In my own research, it looks like white cars tend to be the cheapest.

OR the kidnapper simply owned a white car and did not care or think anyone saw it. He simply drove Molly Bish to wherever and murdered her.

So I would add one other possible occupation to the list of people I would look at: used/new car salesman.

 

[Bargle]

I have not followed the investigation in this case closely since Ms. Bish's remains were recovered. Was there not some circumstantial evidence or other evidence that pointed to a Massachusetts man who moved to Florida and died while incarcerated? Or am I thinking of another case?

Yes, that is this case. The man you're thinking of was Rodney Stanger. He's also suspected of the murder of Holly Piirainen.

 

[Pettibon Junction]

Yes, that is this case. The man you're thinking of was Rodney Stanger. He's also suspected of the murder of Holly Piirainen.

Stanger's brother Randy was placed near the crime scene and is a good match for the composite drawing in that case. However, forensics linked a different man, David Pouliot, to the murder of Holly Piirainen.