VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #14

[turaj]

I wonder how Yannetti feels about some of his co-counsel's antics. Yannetti has to work in that court room after this is all over and possibly face the same judge. Once the verdict is in Jackson is out of there and will likely never be back in that town.

Yanetti will be fine....probably been before her before and will be after. Might belong to the same country club. These attorneys are all used to courtroom antics.

 

[themonk]

I loved that part because the defense also said it was broken by a slight tap on JO's van. And that's the value of expert witnesses.

Yes, about that.

Makes me recall this CW witness testimony

“I saw there was some damage to the right rear tail light,” he said. “It was cracked. A piece was missing. But it was not completely damaged.” - Dighton Police Sgt. Nicholas Barros

State Police Trooper Michael Proctor takes the stand in Karen Read murder trial - Boston News, Weather, Sports | WHDH 7News

DEDHAM, MASS. (WHDH) - State Police Trooper Michael Proctor took the stand in the Karen Read murder trial Monday, beginning his testimony after weeks of<a class="excerpt-read-more" href="https://whdh.com/news/state-police-trooper-michael-proctor-takes-the-stand-in-karen-read-murder-trial/">Read...

whdh.com

 

[mrjitty]

I loved that part because the defense also said it was broken by a slight tap on JO's van. And that's the value of expert witnesses.

To be fair the van has 1000s times more mass than a glass and probably immobilised by hand brake/gear. If you drive your SUV into another massive body - something is likely to give. IMO

 

[TTF14]

My Fitbit says right now at almost 2pm, that I have climbed 61 floors so far today. I can assure you I have not. It's obviously a different device than JO had, but these things are not always accurate.

I still think NG.

Oh wow. Do you have a theory on why it's recording 61 floors?

 

[MyJoey]

I loved that part because the defense also said it was broken by a slight tap on JO's van. And that's the value of expert witnesses.

Honestly with what Lally was up against I think asked some very good questions to these experts, they also didn’t have all the information if I remember correctly.

 

[jepop]

RBBM

proud of him I would imagine, inspired etc

Yep, I'd imagine all the normal feelings for an esteemed fellow attorney who's done an amazing job defending an innocent person imo

 

[JudyBolton]

They are probably hung up on the lesser charges, wondering if can they convict her on those charges for being drunk and driving.

IMO

Hoping and praying there are jurors who paid attention and realize she cannot be found "guilty of drunk driving" that all of the charges require her to have hit him with her vehicle (which - if they listened and believed the expert FBI witnesses was impossible.)

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Honestly with what Lally was up against I think asked some very good questions to these experts, they also didn’t have all the information if I remember correctly.

They didn't have information about DNA or other things that honestly had no determination on the biomechanical issues or the physics involved.

 

[TTF14]

Hoping and praying there are jurors who paid attention and realize she cannot be found "guilty of drunk driving" that all of the charges require her to have hit him with her vehicle (which - if they listened and believed the expert FBI witnesses was impossible.)

Right, but there could be some jurors stuck on making sure she's charged with something simply because she was drunk driving.

Before anyone balks at my use of the word "simply," I didn't use that word to downplay the seriousness of drinking and driving.

IMO

 

[turaj]

I hope this proves true but biggest mistake was bringing this case at all...and as I recall neither side wanted to do it this soon. It showed. Lally just put everyone in town on the stand. Can you imagine if defense had done that...it would have gone all summer...as it stands at least jurors will get 1/2 summer left.

 

[JudyBolton]

According to journalists who were in the courtroom, the 3 jurors not deliberating (2 alternates and the 1 juror dismissed by the judge on the last day) were the 3 who appeared most "engaged with the defense testimony and expert witnesses." I wonder if the dismissed juror will speak out after it's over and tell what happened. It was also reported that one of the alternates was crying as she entered the court yesterday. Hmmmm - just makes one wonder!

 

[jepop]

Honestly with what Lally was up against I think asked some very good questions to these experts, they also didn’t have all the information if I remember correctly.

They were provided the information required to perform objective expert analyses to determine if lexus could have caused injuries found on JO's body. No more and no less. That was made clear on direct. moo

 

[turaj]

I still don't know why the dog dead or alive was not examined to see if those were his bite marks. If so proof of his being in the house.

 

[Curiousobserver]

Honestly with what Lally was up against I think asked some very good questions to these experts, they also didn’t have all the information if I remember correctly.

If we want to apply actual critical thinking to the report, and why you shouldn't take it as Gospel...other things the mythbusters did not test included-

Any pre-existing fractures in her tail light from other impacts we don't know about

A lucky shot on a stress line or parting line in the plastic

The effect of ice being on the lens focusing the impact force

Microfractures or crazing from UV damage on a 3 year old car

 

[Aquarian]

My memory of the testimony was that the CW witness claimed there was an elevation change on their route in the neighborhood. But I don't know if that's accurate. I do live here (not Canton...nearby) and there can be hills, steeper streets, etc. Not everywhere of course but in some places. I don't know personally whether there was on this route.

I thought they said there was coming off Chapman and entering Fairview.
T Paul also said elevation changes can look like stair climbing but many are dismissive of his testimony.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Can't not be impressed with Alan Jackson. He's been a pleasure to watch. It's nice seeing a bit of humour now and then for instance when he was trying ask questions of the three defence expert witnesses, and he openly admitted he was out of his depth structuring questions on the technical side of things.
Lally - "Objection"
Judge - "Sustained, ask it a different way Mr Jackson"
AJ - "Easy for you to say..."

On the flip side he can be terrifying. I recall him on cross examination with Proctor - This video:
Lead investigator Michael Proctor cross-examination
Pretty much a whole day affair. Circa six hours of Proctor looking all kinds of guilty and ashamed and wishing the witness box would just open up and swallow him.
And I mean Proctor REALLY deserved it. AJ didn't even come up for air, he was completely unrelenting.

My analogy at the time was that it was like watching a dog tear apart a fluffy toy, and the toy gets destroyed in the first 30 seconds... But then it somehow just keeps tearing more strips off for SIX HOURS.

Yes Spectrix….. must agree! And another interesting and human moment IMO was the complicated question AJ had posed I believe to the first expert testifying on direct over the third part / agency report?

After a couple of prosecution objections the question became more cumbersome and long. The expert under direct asked something to AJ like: ‘can you please repeat the question?’….. and without a quip….. AJ responded politely and jovially ‘probably not’.

And by comparison, for the testimony I could watch….. and others said this earlier, it was infuriating for the objection basis, grounds, and ultimate disposition to not be given on the record? Granted IANAL but after viewing other trial proceedings it is good for that clarification on the record IMO. And on some other cases, it is not uncommon to request a ‘read-back’ of testimony or an asked question from the record? MOO

 

[Maat99]

It just seems like when JO's body temp was found to be 80 degrees, that there would be a consensus of opinion among experts that either he could or couldn't have been lying in the snow for as long as 6 hours.

I’m just going to post this again since it is relevant to your point. 80 degrees Fahrenheit is roughly 26.7 degrees Celsius. This chart is estimated for less body weight (176 lbs) than JO (220 lbs). The temperature in the example is not exact. The example is for 25 degrees Fahrenheit whereas the actual temperature between 12am to 6 am was a range from 30 to 25 degrees. That said, the JOs body temp at 6 am (yellow dot) seems to align much more closely with JO being outside for a few hours than with being outside for 6 hours.
Idk why this wasn’t a bigger topic given the testimony from Lucky.

Cold Weather Survival Time – Body Physics: Motion to Metabolism

openoregon.pressbooks.pub

 

[turaj]

i think at this point safe to think that one or more are not on board with next move and some discussion happening. Hoping others can convince them.

 

[Curiousobserver]

Hoping and praying there are jurors who paid attention and realize she cannot be found "guilty of drunk driving" that all of the charges require her to have hit him with her vehicle (which - if they listened and believed the expert FBI witnesses was impossible.)

None of the charges require her to have hit him with the car.

Please re-read the rather lengthy discussion of this on previous threads

 

[KSwizzle]

Would be interesting to know if the holdout(s) are wanting to say guilty or if they're wanting to say not guilty