VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #14

[sunspun]

This was interesting testimony from the trial. I'm inclined to believe that out of all the data in this case that possibly could be wrong, this is the data that I most believe could be inaccurate. Maybe because I know that my fitness app sometimes says I am swimming when I am actually folding laundry.

I was recently watching a different live trial (the Susana Morales case) where a teen was kidnapped by an off-duty cop. She was taken in his car, and then at some point killed and placed in the woods off the side of a rural highway. Investigators used data from Fitness apps on both the victim and perpetrators phones to show activity levels, when they occurred and what they showed. The prosecutor at one point asked about the data point "stairs climbed" that occurred after the kidnapping took place but when it was presumed the victim and perpetrator still would have been in his car and the lead detective said that this is commonly seen with "elevation changes," it often has nothing to do with stairs actually being climbed. My head swiveled around when I heard that come up in this other case. This was said very matter of factly, almost dismissively and not challenged on a technical basis as far as I know (I haven't watching the entire trial yet).

I believe that that can happen, but then it should be important to know if there are any elevation changes on the route KR and JO took that night! They only went a few miles from the bar to 34 F, so easy to check. Is this part of the state all up and down in elevation like that? Seems doubtful, but I'm nowhere near MA, so who knows.

 

[geevee]

I often wish jury members could ask a witness questions for clarification while that witness is still on the stand instead of sending them to deliberate on some piece of evidence that they may not understand. This is especially true of forensic, scientific, and digital types of evidence. Witnesses come in all shapes and forms; some extremely believable, some not so much, some very clear and precise, some not so much. Expert witnesses in particular can provide very long, intricate statements to bolster their theories, some of which go right over the head of some jury members. Some of these tedious statements can include extremely important information, but what good is their testimony if it is not understood by the jury?
Edit to add that I realize it is the job of both the defense and prosecution attorneys to try and extract the needed information from a witness, but sometimes you still have questions.

Oh so yes to this!

 

[keek]

I believe that that can happen, but then it should be important to know if there are any elevation changes on the route KR and JO took that night! They only went a few miles from the bar to 34 F, so easy to check. Is this part of the state all up and down in elevation like that? Seems doubtful, but I'm nowhere near MA, so who knows.

It has been driven and no elevation was shown at all as there was no elevation on that route.

 

[KMouse]

She was pretty dismissive of the defense in pre-trial hearings. She was particularly rude to Alan Jackson. More than once she made some comment about "that's not how we do it in Massachusetts". And she often just sat on their motions to compel (to get the commonwealth to turn over evidence) and refused to rule on them, sometimes for months.

I remember how upset she was just before the trial when the defense complained about the original courtroom because the jury couldn't see the faces of the witnesses. A completely legitimate complaint that impacts Karen's rights, but the judge acted like they were trying to pull some kind of fast one on her.

She's been more circumspect in front of the jury, but I think her behavior when they're not present shows what she really thinks of Karen Read and her attorneys.

I wonder how Yannetti feels about some of his co-counsel's antics. Yannetti has to work in that court room after this is all over and possibly face the same judge. Once the verdict is in Jackson is out of there and will likely never be back in that town.

 

[Spectrix]

On the 3rd day of jury deliberations, this is taking longer than Proctor's entire "investigation". jmo.

One can only hope that unlike the team involved in that sorry excuse for an investigation, the jury are actually taking their job seriously.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

I wonder how Yannetti feels about some of his co-counsel's antics. Yannetti has to work in that court room after this is all over and possibly face the same judge. Once the verdict is in Jackson is out of there and will likely never be back in that town.

What antics are you referring to? Defending his client vigourously?

 

[Yemelyan]

I believe that that can happen, but then it should be important to know if there are any elevation changes on the route KR and JO took that night! They only went a few miles from the bar to 34 F, so easy to check. Is this part of the state all up and down in elevation like that? Seems doubtful, but I'm nowhere near MA, so who knows.

My memory of the testimony was that the CW witness claimed there was an elevation change on their route in the neighborhood. But I don't know if that's accurate. I do live here (not Canton...nearby) and there can be hills, steeper streets, etc. Not everywhere of course but in some places. I don't know personally whether there was on this route.

 

[Leilei]

I wonder how Yannetti feels about some of his co-counsel's antics. Yannetti has to work in that court room after this is all over and possibly face the same judge. Once the verdict is in Jackson is out of there and will likely never be back in that town.

Antics? I didn't see any antics, just some strong, intelligent lawyering for his client.
IMO.

 

[arielilane]

Earlier post from this morning, never posted.
https://x.com/TedDanielnews
@TedDanielnews

Both sides can leave the building at 10am. Defense team just walked out of courtroom. They have church hall across the street to wait.


10:01 AM · Jun 27, 2024

 

[TTF14]

I believe that that can happen, but then it should be important to know if there are any elevation changes on the route KR and JO took that night! They only went a few miles from the bar to 34 F, so easy to check. Is this part of the state all up and down in elevation like that? Seems doubtful, but I'm nowhere near MA, so who knows.

I know very little about cars, but wouldn't shock absorbers or other automotive stabilizing technology prevent an app from recording driving over hills as climbing stairs?

The only time I recall my health data recording flights of stairs when I didn't actually climb any was when I got lost hiking and was climbing (and descending) actual hills. Steep hills. Like stairs. On foot.

JMO IMO

 

[whitelilac]

I asked a similar question a couple of times and haven't gotten anyone who can answer yet. I've been trying to figure out how, if his phone WAS in the house and did register steps and/or flights of stairs, then why didn't it register anything when it was taken back out to the front of the house in the middle of the night?

Rather than the phone being taken back out by someone, would the phone register steps if it was thrown out from the door/porch? I don't think so.

 

[fluffypaste]

My memory of the testimony was that the CW witness claimed there was an elevation change on their route in the neighborhood. But I don't know if that's accurate. I do live here (not Canton...nearby) and there can be hills, steeper streets, etc. Not everywhere of course but in some places. I don't know personally whether there was on this route.

My concern is that unless the jurors were exceptionally diligent in taking notes in an organized manner, those details may be completely lost on them at this point.

 

[Moonstrawbs]

I wonder how Yannetti feels about some of his co-counsel's antics. Yannetti has to work in that court room after this is all over and possibly face the same judge. Once the verdict is in Jackson is out of there and will likely never be back in that town.

Do elaborate on these antics? I must have been distracted by Lally's overbearing attitude, repeatedly talking over the witnesses, downright lying claiming to have certain videos and for saying that using misogynistic/abusive language and "trying to find a defendant's nudes" on their phone, was meant to be in a "safe space". But that's just me. jmo.

 

[Curiousobserver]

You're absolutely correct, and you ought to watch the defence expert testimonies. All three of them were brilliant and one of them did cover this scenario.

In order to ascertain if it was plausible that a cocktail glass could crack or demolish the Lexus tail light, they literally built a pneumatic canon to fire consecutive shots, each using an increasing amount of pressure. The consensus was that it wasn't possible that the glass was broken by the Lexus backing into JOK's outstretched arm holding the glass (at the 24MPH claimed by the CW).

They found that the only way they were able to crack the tail light was to fire the glass at the tail light in excess of 39 MPH. So their conclusion was that it was plausible that the glass could have cracked the tail light, but only if it was thrown.

I loved that part because the defense also said it was broken by a slight tap on JO's van. And that's the value of expert witnesses.

 

[Leilei]

Coming up on the end of the one hour "blackout" time.
We're now at 13 hours of deliberation.
Maybe we'll hear something from the jury in a few minutes?
They must have worked through lunch again, too, which shows that they are trying to sort through all of this.
IMO.

 

[themonk]

I wonder how Yannetti feels about some of his co-counsel's antics. Yannetti has to work in that court room after this is all over and possibly face the same judge. Once the verdict is in Jackson is out of there and will likely never be back in that town.

RBBM

proud of him I would imagine, inspired etc

 

[TTF14]

I asked a similar question a couple of times and haven't gotten anyone who can answer yet. I've been trying to figure out how, if his phone WAS in the house and did register steps and/or flights of stairs, then why didn't it register anything when it was taken back out to the front of the house in the middle of the night?

Airplane mode? We know this particular set of LE officers know about airplane mode because it was discussed with some of them on the stand.

IMO

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

I agree with that. There was nothing inappropriate done in front of the jury. Judicially, she was fine. However, the cameras were rolling. Judge, in her momentary lack of reasoning, forgot that. Under such, she herself just moments before scolding KR for laughing, had giggled/chuckled out loud at Yannetti's comment about him not ever seeing a Verdict form like that before. Then she does her snarling take-down of KR for laughing. Netflix was watching.....We all were watching.

She needed to act quickly to redeem herself, and she did. But we saw it.

I do wonder who will portray her in the series.

Yes shotgun09!…… was there a question in there? Meryl Streep IMO. MOO

Back to jury watch…….

 

[jepop]

One can only hope that unlike the team involved in that sorry excuse for an investigation, the jury are actually taking their job seriously.

that's all i believe they are doing. could be a case of mwt but think they are simply being thorough and talking it out.

 

[Electric Sheep]

It has been driven and no elevation was shown at all as there was no elevation on that route.

My Fitbit says right now at almost 2pm, that I have climbed 61 floors so far today. I can assure you I have not. It's obviously a different device than JO had, but these things are not always accurate.

I still think NG.