VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #14

[less0305]

I really like to try and understand people’s thought processes and how different people listening to the same witnesses reach different conclusions. This is why thousands of dollars are spent on studying potential jurors. It could be upbringing, background, life experiences and a slew of other factors that work together to influence how a juror forms an opinion on a case.
Can I pick your mind?
You said you would be the holdout because you believe KR hit JOK with her vehicle and killed him. You also say the other possibilities do not ring true. Interestingly, you said that if the prosecution presented the alternative, it would give you reasonable doubt.
Does this mean you would always believe a prosecutor over a defense attorney?
Besides thinking the alternative defense did not ring true, what evidence leads you to conclude KR is guilty?
If neither the vehicle nor JOK’s body showed any signs that he was killed in this manner, what prompts you to disregard that evidence?
Do you disregard an eminently qualified witness because he testified for the defense instead of the prosecution?
Please do not think I am trying to pounce on your opinion. I am genuinely interested in your thought process.

If the prosecution were presenting the evidence that the victim went into the house was beaten up by other law enforcement officers, attacked by a dog, drug outside and left to die in the cold, all in the space of just a matter of minutes and then there was this huge cover up by other people in the home, other agencies responding to the scene in the form of EMS, fire department, other law enforcement agencies, I would have a hard time believing that story. It means I'd believe the defense in that case that here you have a vehicle with a broken tail light, a woman who was clearly obsessed with a man that was obviously not into her, was intoxicated and shouldn't have been driving to begin with. And if the defense posited this theory of an angry, inebriated girlfriend who drops him off and then does a 24 mph reverse, obsessively calls and texts him, and makes statements that she did hit him or may have hit him or thought she possibly hit him, but that girlfriend wasn't charged - and you had two sets of experts - one saying the exact opposite the other, then yes, I would have reasonable doubt and not find the group of friends, law enforcement officers, beat him and threw him out in a blizzard. So I would agree with the defense in that case.
I don't think KR is guilty of second degree murder. I don't believe she had the intention to kill him. I do believe she was too drunk to be driving, was not thinking or being responsible and accidentally hit him and drove off. He died. Accident, yes, but still negligent.
Experts - I don't ALWAYS trust the experts, no matter who they are. I mean, you know, there's the whole money thing about that. And you can call me skeptical. But one thing I do know... with enough money you can buy anything.
Anyway, I won't change anyone else's mind, just like my mind is made up and that's where we stand.

 

[jepop]

As far as I can gather, KR was chatting to the boy and his mum about the difficulties the boy faced with bullying due to his colostomy bag. She took the sign away so they could pose together for a photo.

The sign appears to read:

My name is Ben,
I am a 12 year old with
A Colostomy Bag
(not a leaky balloon knot)

Props to that kid for making the trip out there to show his support. That took some real guts.

Right thanks. So that was it? No drama at all and understand people being furious at what proctor's testimony exposed re abhorrent attitudes towards people with this sort of medical issue. I don't see that the parents of this boy have anything at all to be ashamed about. Why should they be ashamed of their child. Bravo to their brave child. He will always remember this and feel proud.Imo

 

[MyJoey]

Do you have a link to that specific witness testimony?
IMO

Do you have a link to that specific witness testimony?
ETA: I know they weren't on camera, but I don't recall any mention of "once in a while" at all. There's a lot of testimony, though, so I may have missed it. TIA.
IMO

John O’Keefe’s nephew, niece testify about his relationship with Karen Read. Here’s what they said

The niece and nephew of late Boston Police Officer John O’Keefe were called to the stand Tuesday in the murder trial of Karen Read.

www.yahoo.com

This one is sometimes, most time but trying to find the other I read….so bad a finding stuff when I need it,

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

In the interest of science...

-She was there- she is not disputing this
-She was several fold over the legal limit- she is not disputing this
-She was driving her car- she is not disputing this
-Prosecution showed that her car made a highly unsafe backup maneuver recorded by the EDS system that she should know is unsafe; this is the intent (I don't buy the keystroke argument about the count, I trust the mileage argument)
-Her tail light is at the scene (disputed, but testified they were under the snow not on top of it which is difficult to fake without detection by bystanders)
-His DNA is on the tail light (I don't buy the touch DNA argument, nobody touches their girlfriend's tail light, and I don't buy the transfer from the blood in the cups argument. If someone planted this there would be micrograms of his DNA, not nanograms of his DNA). The fact that there is very little DNA is more incriminating, not less.
-Pieces of the tail light are on his clothes
-His phone GPS suggests he was in the exact same spot all night
-Karen Read even thinks hitting him was a reasonable explanation and shouted it in front of multiple witnesses.
-The FBI provided 3000 pages from their investigation to the defense, including Grand Jury Testimony and the only thing they found that they could use that might be exculpatory were some guys firing a glass at the tail light with a pneumatic cannon.
-After seeing what the FBI found the Judge allowed the trial to move forward, subjecting Karen to the possibility of conviction and prison.
-No dog DNA on the swabs from his clothes (you would expect some if he laid on the floor in their house or was attacked by the dog even if they didn't swab the exact spot where she bit)
-Chloe is only in Vermont and is apparently alive and well (it would have been easy for the defense to get a bite impressions but they didn't; it would have been foolish for the prosecution to do it because they would be handing the defense credibility and an easy way to confuse the Jury on cross examination, allowing upteen experts to come in and refute them)

Good post, I just have one question. What is specifically wrong with the touch DNA argument? It was my understanding that CW witness testified to it being touch DNA. What do you mean nobody touches their girlfriend's taillight? I was bringing groceries in out of my trunk, both my girlfriend and I touched the taillights. We went to a baseball game and were leaning on the back bumper and tailgating, the taillights again were touched. Where does the certainty that it's not touch DNA come from?

 

[Maat99]

Much like the CWs case against KR, the evidence for deliberation time being related to verdict is inconsistent and doesn’t prove anything. So I am not losing hope!

 

[Colorado303]

Would be interesting to know if the holdout(s) are wanting to say guilty or if they're wanting to say not guilty

I have no idea how these things work in the jury room, but if I was the lone holdout I’d be more inclined to cave if I thought the person was guilty and everyone else said innocent. If I was convinced the defendant was innocent i would hang in there like grim death till everyone else changed their minds or the Judge declared us hung.

 

[Colorado303]

Fourth of July next week. I’m wondering if jury is close, but wants to get out of town on a Friday as the reaction to any verdict erupts. If they have working spouses or other obligations, they may not want to hang around the area while waiting for the weekend.

Very interesting point!

 

[jepop]

THE JUDGE should say no. Lets get this done.

yeah but what are the odds of that happenning

 

[whitelilac]

Well heck, tomorrow is Friday. If the jury does not come to a verdict before the weekend, then I think there's some contention and disagreement in there, a holdout or two. Just my feeling.

 

[JenaTaoson]

Once again thank you @arielilane for providing us tweets throughout the day!

 

[fluffypaste]

Much like the CWs case against KR, the evidence for deliberation time being related to verdict is inconsistent and doesn’t prove anything. So I am not losing hope!

I don't know what to think. I consider the medical testimony and the engineering testimony to be so overwhelmingly exculpatory that I can't imagine how any jury could find her guilty of anything. But for deliberations to continue this long, there must be individuals on the jury who are pushing for a guilty verdict. It's certainly disconcerting.

There is still hope; it's not over until a verdict is actually delivered, but I'm definitely not so confident anymore.

 

[mzmarymac]

Maybe just another thought. They are done early because they have a pretty good idea of their verdict but maybe some want to sleep on it?

Fun Fact: "Longest recorded jury deliberation in the United States lasted 4.5 months, in a 1992 bribery trial in California."

Statistics About The Average Jury Deliberation Time • Gitnux

The statistic implies that, on average, jury deliberations in criminal trials last around 8 hours. This means that after all the evidence and arguments have

gitnux.org

 

[Colorado303]

I do hope 1 or more jurors agree to be interviewed after this is done. Would be interesting to know what when on behind those doors.

Does anyone else wish Nate Eaton was covering this trial closely like he did w/Daybell? If he were, no doubt he would get the jury scoop once the verdict was in.

 

[BUF]

Unless I have missed it, the jury hasn’t sent a note saying that they are at an impasse.

Tomorrow is another day…let’s hope it’s the day

 

[whitelilac]

Maybe just another thought. They are done early because they have a pretty good idea of their verdict but maybe some want to sleep on it?

snipped for focus.
That's what we said yesterday lol.
If no verdict tomorrow, can we say they're sleeping on it for 2 days?

 

[OldCop]

Very interesting point!

Same reason politicians and such always release bad news on Fridays - so they can get out of Dodge.

 

[Maat99]

I don't know what to think. I consider the medical testimony and the engineering testimony to be so overwhelmingly exculpatory that I can't imagine how any jury could find her guilty of anything. But for deliberations to continue this long, there must be individuals on the jury who are pushing for a guilty verdict. It's certainly disconcerting.

There is still hope; it's not over until a verdict is actually delivered, but I'm definitely not so confident anymore.

I agree with everything you said. My hope is that they are just being diligent in going over all of the testimony which could take a while. So thanks again to Lally for putting on a protracted, drawn out case filled with meaningless minutia

 

[TTF14]

She never said it imo. Just not true. She said cracked and a small hole. That was it. Moo from memory but I recall the testimony well. <modsnip>

And something was "sticking out of it."

IMO

 

[TTF14]

No verdict today. Jury has indicated they want to go home.

This jury has really gotten used to Judge C's working hours/short days.

My prediction has changed from NG to hung jury.

IMO MOO

 

[jepop]

I agree with everything you said. My hope is that they are just being diligent in going over all of the testimony which could take a while. So thanks again to Lally for putting on a protracted, drawn out case filled with meaningless minutia

Meaningless Minutia, that's another catchy alliteration. I'm making a list of them from this trial. Meaningless Minutia shall join Derierre Dialing I think.