VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #14

[TIGER0822]

I think I understand now.

So the idea for this to fit into a conspiracy is she made this false text within a short period time of the murder of John O'Keefe?

I always have a problem with instant conspiracy's. Very hard for them to work in my opinion.

She saw an SUV. Did she ever specifically say it was KR?

 

[RANCH]

She saw an SUV. Did she ever specifically say it was KR?

That's a good question.

 

[Maat99]

I would be interested to hear what others think why his phone was moving that fast for 80' at 12:24.

Was there a treadmill in the basement gym?
The distance of the walking steps is 338 feet. The distance for the running steps is 288 ft. Walking 338 feet takes roughly a minute, running 288 ft would take roughly 33 seconds. So JO could have messed around on the treadmill for a minute or so before being injured. Could be something a drunk guy would do. Definitely seems more likely than JO sprinting around the property unseen IMO.

 

[Spectrix]

KR's car did not hit JO and his injuries were not caused by her car.

“You can’t deny the science and the physics,” Andrew Rentschler from ARCCA, testified at one point.

But but... Trooper Paul used his maths, and the compelling "it just did" calculations...

 

[Spectrix]

Was there a treadmill in the basement gym?
The distance of the walking steps is 338 feet. The distance for the running steps is 288 ft. Walking 338 feet takes roughly a minute, running 288 ft would take roughly 33 seconds. So JO could have messed around on the treadmill for a minute or so before being injured. Could be something a drunk guy would do. Definitely seems more likely than JO sprinting around the property unseen IMO.

I have to chuckle at this as treadmills are notorious for launching people at a great rate of knots and causing all kinds of injuries. I can imagine the dog getting involved too

 

[PenelopeJude]

I'd be the holdout. I believe she hit him with her vehicle, and that scenario rings truer to me than the whole went in the house, gets beat up, and dog attack, and thrown out in the cold to die by other law enforcement officers, and there be some grand cover-up scheme - and for what?? Too many people for somebody not to have come clean. If it were reversed and the prosecution were presenting that kind of case, then I'd have reasonable doubt. But I still feel strongly, and without reasonable doubt, that she was drunk off her *advertiser censored*, they were fighting, she was not intending to hit him or kill him, but accidentally hit him and didn't know it. And for that she's guilty of a lesser charge. Hell, SHE even thought she hit him.

How do you explain the arm wounds? This is the one thing I can’t get past (with car theory).

 

[OldCop]

@OldCop Guessing you were in LE, your name might be a give away! This situation is a disaster for the reputation of the Police in general. Presumably the FBI investigation is about the Police (thugs) handling of this case. In your opinion, how likely is it that some of the players in this travesty will end up in jail? MOO

I stood back from posting on this case until just recently. In the past, when I tried to defend LE if I thought they were being unfairly criticized, I was often labeled a fanboy or someone who would defend/cover for them whether they were right or wrong. Nothing could be further from the truth. When I see any LEO engaged in improprieties, corruption, brutality, or any criminal activity, I just hang my head in shame. For LEO’s more than any other profession, one bad seed paints every member of that Department in the same light.
Fact: Every good cop hates every bad cop.
As I began getting deeper into this particular case I could hardly believe what I was hearing. It was so outlandish that I really thought it couldn’t be true. In general, I also hate coincidences, don’t believe in them. This case was loaded with them! As facts began to come out in this trial, it seemed obvious that something was very, very wrong.
As far as jail time we need to look at their (alleged) wrongdoing. We have everything from shoddy investigative work, to evidence tampering, to accessory after the fact, to false reports, to false arrest, to using government facilities under false pretenses/to conceal a crime and the list goes on. If the accusations are true, at minimum several will be suspended and reprimanded, others will loose their jobs and pensions, and the top players may very well be facing jail time. The federal investigation will, hopefully, uncover whether, if true, the evidence tampering, false reports, etc were done to “hurry along”and close the case or to intentionally hide or protect the person who was actually responsible for the death of John O'Keefe. Their findings will make a huge difference in the punishment that will be meted out. MOO

 

[seekingjustice**]

Question for the 'KR is guilty' crowd

Do any of you also think tail light evidence was planted at 34F?

No!

 

[seekingjustice**]

Listen to Lally and closing arguments I think he wrapped it up perfectly.

I agree! He was factual and right on point.

 

[seekingjustice**]

I give him a ton of credit he did very well with what he was up against. He don’t have AJ jazz but he put it together well in closing…..dragged it out some but whatever. I loved the time line charts of everything.

Same here. So much credit to him sticking to the facts and not getting sucked in by the nonsensical alternative theory. His personality may be a bit boring but a lot of people, including myself, appreciate listening to factual evidence which is his style.

 

[devilsangeldoc]

So ignore medical testimony because no expert can tell me definitively? No expert can tell me definitely how JOK died or that he was hit by a car, but that hasn't stopped anyone from making those assertions. How do I know which testimony to ignore? Since I don't think anything was said as "definitively" happening in this trial other than it snowed, and even then, nobody can appear to agree on the amount of snow. JMO

And no good medical expert would say that; (I havent heard these guys myself) its not appropriate wording. They'd say "likely" or "unlikely to have occured", and "consistent with" or "not consistent". Unless it's something like a decapitation or full body crushing (obviously definitive, not capatible with life). Their opinion as a subject matter expert in their experience is that they can conclude what is highly likely to have happened based on the subject presentation of his injuries and moi, conciousness, Glasgow score etc (along with any other indicators and comorbid factors), which were very specific serious blunt force trauma to face and skull with significant brain bleeding and swelling CONSISTENT WITH immedate incapacitation and fatal decompensation/ loss of life uncorrected. Or something to that effect. There are a number of different types of brain bleeds and possibilities. But his level appeared significant and emergent, and NOT CONSISTENT with contact with a vehicle,. And being very drunk lying in the freezing cold found unconscious unknown downtime unaccounted for definitely wouldnt be conducive to a positive outcome for him. There's no evidence to support being struck by a vehicle but moreso for a physical assault.
I'm not familiar with this case or full autopsy report so not saying anything definitively here, just an example. Would be nice to see EMS run sheets and police and autopsy report for this though.

 

[nightowl1975]

I think I understand now.

So the idea for this to fit into a conspiracy is she made this false text within a short period time of the murder of John O'Keefe?

I always have a problem with instant conspiracy's. Very hard for them to work in my opinion.

Not necessarily. I think she could’ve legitimately texted him the where are you, hey, etc stuff wondering where he was but NOT checking the windows and all that. But it looked weird/bad for her to send those texts in light of this conspiracy talk, so she fabricated the whole “I sent this text, then looked out the window, then wondered why he wasn’t inside, so I sent the next text” lie. And it would’ve worked well…. except for the fact that we know KRs phone connected to the home WiFi during all of this supposed window checking from JM.

The problem is she lied. Bald faced. Without a doubt. Why? I don’t know. At best, to make herself look not guilty bc she was scared. At worst, to help cover up a crime after the fact. I don’t think she was personally involved in harming JO in any way.

 

[nightowl1975]

She saw an SUV. Did she ever specifically say it was KR?

Yes, she was very specific.

 

[nightowl1975]

I have to chuckle at this as treadmills are notorious for launching people at a great rate of knots and causing all kinds of injuries. I can imagine the dog getting involved too

I’ve wondered if there was some actual rather innocent explanation for what happened, perhaps he was messing around on the treadmill, tripped backwards, the dog went crazy, he hits his head, he’s surrounded by a bunch of drunk people who then freak out.

Why? Well, drunk people aren’t exactly rational. Maybe CA punched JO while he was messing around on the treadmill. JO falls backwards. No intent to kill him but dead he is. Which is a problem. And we’ve got a house full of drunk cops, multiple of them related to CA, obviously wanting to protect “just a kid”, especially if it wasn’t some deliberate attack meant to truly harm JO.

So now they’re all in a panic. Drunk and trying to figure out a plan. Maybe being hit by a car never crossed their minds. But they knew he at least needed to be not inside the house. So out on the lawn he goes. Maybe the original plan was he must’ve tripped and hit his head. How sad. Case closed.

Then hysterical KR shows up screaming and carrying on about how maybe she hit him, did I hit him? OMG, what if I hit him? Etc. It would’ve seemed like a dream come true. Let her take the fall. Case closed.

Enter Proctor who wants to help along the case so he can be the hero who solved a fellow officers death. Throw some glass and plastic around. Toss out the shoe at the curb that came off on the treadmill fiasco. Etc etc.

They never expected any of this to get this far. But once the first lies were told, they’re locked in. They can’t rewind and so, look, just kidding, what really happened is this…

 

[RANCH]

Not necessarily. I think she could’ve legitimately texted him the where are you, hey, etc stuff wondering where he was but NOT checking the windows and all that. But it looked weird/bad for her to send those texts in light of this conspiracy talk, so she fabricated the whole “I sent this text, then looked out the window, then wondered why he wasn’t inside, so I sent the next text” lie. And it would’ve worked well…. except for the fact that we know KRs phone connected to the home WiFi during all of this supposed window checking from JM.

The problem is she lied. Bald faced. Without a doubt. Why? I don’t know. At best, to make herself look not guilty bc she was scared. At worst, to help cover up a crime after the fact. I don’t think she was personally involved in harming JO in any way.

I'm sorry but I don't understand your reply to my post.

Other than you believe she lied. And I'm fine with that.

 

[Warwick7]

I agree! He was factual and right on point.

The problem is he lied.
Lally lied...
During closing arguments he said there was no other dna on JO'S clothing. There were 3 dna profiles in his blood on his jeans.
He wasn't factual.

 

[Warwick7]

Not necessarily. I think she could’ve legitimately texted him the where are you, hey, etc stuff wondering where he was but NOT checking the windows and all that. But it looked weird/bad for her to send those texts in light of this conspiracy talk, so she fabricated the whole “I sent this text, then looked out the window, then wondered why he wasn’t inside, so I sent the next text” lie. And it would’ve worked well…. except for the fact that we know KRs phone connected to the home WiFi during all of this supposed window checking from JM.

The problem is she lied. Bald faced. Without a doubt. Why? I don’t know. At best, to make herself look not guilty bc she was scared. At worst, to help cover up a crime after the fact. I don’t think she was personally involved in harming JO in any way.

Great post!!

 

[nightowl1975]

I'm sorry but I don't understand your reply to my post.

Other than you believe she lied. And I'm fine with that.

She DID lie. It’s impossible for her to have seen KR at the times she said she did. She was explicit. And absolutely “crystal clear”. Except, what she stated was factually impossible.

 

[RANCH]

She DID lie. It’s impossible for her to have seen KR at the times she said she did. She was explicit. And absolutely “crystal clear”. Except, what she stated was factually impossible.

Then we go back to my problem with a conspiracy.

And that's my biggest concern. JMO.

 

[k-mac]

I give him a ton of credit he did very well with what he was up against. He don’t have AJ jazz but he put it together well in closing…..dragged it out some but whatever. I loved the time line charts of everything.

Same here. So much credit to him sticking to the facts and not getting sucked in by the nonsensical alternative theory. His personality may be a bit boring but a lot of people, including myself, appreciate listening to factual evidence which is his style.

well most importantly the jury is still out.

So as unpopular as the prosecution case is around here the people who matter are thinking about it HARD.

Every day that passes makes me more confidant of a manslaughter conviction.
Or a hung jury.
Not looking positive for a not guilty IMO.

moo