VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #15

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I’ll tell you…. I really believe Karen’s Tail light pieces were around John’s body, I really believe John’s phone stayed in the same area. I really believe all Karen’s words and actions screamed guilt. I don’t see a conspiracy to frame Karen, I don’t believe he was ever in the house. In my eyes and I know others disagree, all that over rides the expert opinion's (which I never have put much into, since each side can say something different). I think the holdouts are a few NG VS Guilty. I really feel it’s hard for many like myself to get past her own words and actions. I realize it was a horrible investigation, and LE needs to get their act together but there is still enough evidence that tells me it was Karen that caused John’s death. Not debating what I feel, just giving insight.
I think, at this point, we pretty much know to a person what each individual on this thread thinks and believes. Now, we just have to wait for the jury.
 
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I’ll tell you…. I really believe Karen’s Tail light pieces were around John’s body, I really believe John’s phone stayed in the same area. I really believe all Karen’s words and actions screamed guilt. I don’t see a conspiracy to frame Karen, I don’t believe he was ever in the house. In my eyes and I know others disagree, all that over rides the expert opinion's (which I never have put much into, since each side can say something different). I think the holdouts are a few NG VS Guilty. I really feel it’s hard for many like myself to get past her own words and actions. I realize it was a horrible investigation, and LE needs to get their act together but there is still enough evidence that tells me it was Karen that caused John’s death. Not debating what I feel, just giving insight.
The tail light was largely intact before coming into Canton PD custody.

I don't understand why this is controversial. How can it even be in dispute?

There is video and testimony of it largely intact before coming into Canton PD custody.

Of course, it may go hand in hand with preferring one's own intuition over unbiased experts.

Who really knows.

Sign of the times, I suppose.
 
Imo only JMc actually testified to that. The ambulance officer and others ( were there any?) were second hand accounts IIRC. Moo
JENN MCCABE HAS ARRIVED

and she is here to multiple butt dial, delete texts and calls, say that Karen Read's car was at 34F when it was not, make ominous google searches, and allegedly try to find John O'Keefe's phone while he is dying from a beating.

Enjoy your weekend all!
 
I think, at this point, we pretty much know to a person what each individual on this thread thinks and believes. Now, we just have to wait for the jury.
The tail light was largely intact before coming into Canton PD custody.

I don't understand why this is controversial. How can it even be in dispute?

There is video and testimony of it largely intact before coming into Canton PD custody.

Of course, it may go hand in hand with preferring one's own intuition over unbiased experts.

Who really knows.

Sign of the times, I suppose.
Right, the taillight was never seen as all smashed and gone per the police officer who met the Canton police at Dighton, where the Lexus was in KR parents driveway. So once at the Canton PD lallyport, voila, smashed taillight and pieces found at 34 FV later in the day and so on. That was testified by the Dighton officer who had no ties to Canton PD or the Alberts, etc. No matter, Jury having a problem is what matters with sounds like the same kind of thinking of one or two possibly people, somehow.
 
Imo only JMc actually testified to that. The ambulance officer and others ( were there any?) were second hand accounts IIRC. Moo
yes, only Jenn McCabe. Do people actually think she is credible in any sense of the word?

seriously, who thinks Jenn McCabe has been a credible witness.

Please chime in here if you do. Jenn needs all the help she can get.
 
I'd hold out for guilty.

- I think the evidence shows he was struck by KR's car and killed ~12:30am.
- I believe the testimony of the people at the Albert's house.
- I believe KR's actions in the morning after JO was killed were telling.
- With all due respect to the defense's experts - I thought they varied in terms of effectiveness - but I didn't find any of them convincing to the level that the Occam's Razor explanation doesn't fit.

I feel like the circumstances both hurt and helped KR. If it hadn't been snowing and in a dark area, no way does she even have a chance to get away with it. On the other hand, those same circumstances (in my mind) really eliminate a lot of "reasonable" doubt options. I'm left with either 1) she did it or 2) the conspiracy/cover up.

Now a lot of people here say the defense doesn't have to "prove" anything... that's true... but they do have to convince a juror that the doubt is reasonable and in this case (for me), they'd have to prove things that really point to a cover up.

1) they didn't prove JO ever made it into the house.
2) they didn't prove that he was attacked by a dog.
3) they didn't prove that JM made that internet search at 2:27 AM.

Had they been able to do so with any of those 3 (and maybe something else I'm forgetting) - my thoughts on reasonable doubt would certainly be different.

* I also don't recall the defense offering any (what I consider) even remotely believable motive for a conspiracy murder. At one point, I do remember Jackson alluding to JM "luring" JO and KR to the house... and I nearly spit out my drink as I thought that was the most absurd and ridiculous characterization of the events we could all see (from the video) of the night at The Waterfall.
Omg we so think alike and I know soooo many think we’re nuts, welcome to my world . Honestly the first time I heard BA placed John in his front yard, I laughed out loud. I think when BA, CA, JM and Kerry sat with John’s family it was loud and clear to the jury what they believed and brilliant on the prosecutions side. While Lally isn’t a AJ, I think he did very well under the circumstances and asked some good questions of the defense witnesses.
 
Omg we so think alike and I know soooo many think we’re nuts, welcome to my world . Honestly the first time I heard BA placed John in his front yard, I laughed out loud. I think when BA, CA, JM and Kerry sat with John’s family it was loud and clear to the jury what they believed and brilliant on the prosecutions side. While Lally isn’t a AJ, I think he did very well under the circumstances and asked some good questions of the defense witnesses.
You have finally MET! You have about one or two more left to meet up with. I would say Monday cannot come soon enough but who wants to rush the weekend!
 
yes, only Jenn McCabe. Do people actually think she is credible in any sense of the word?

seriously, who thinks Jenn McCabe has been a credible witness.

Please chime in here if you do. Jenn needs all the help she can get.
I might be wrong as can't recall whether there were paramedics on the stand. Am I right only JMc testified to hearing it directly? I missed a few of those 67 (?) state witnesses
 
I'd hold out for guilty.

- I think the evidence shows he was struck by KR's car and killed ~12:30am.
RSBM

Hi there Mister Bedbug

Can you explain the physics of the car/pedestrian strike and also while you are doing that can you explain John O'Keefe's injuries and how they would have been the result of a car strike?

It seems obvious to you but I need it explained. I don't get it.

I don't recall the prosecution really explaining it, unless you agree with Joseph Paul's testimony.

I mean, you think Joseph Paul explained it pretty good, yeah?

He had some sweet theories. Do you agree with them?

Joseph Paul, a swell guy.
 
You have finally MET! You have about one or two more left to meet up with. I would say Monday cannot come soon enough but who wants to rush the weekend!
Right maybe we can all meet at the waterfall . Seriously can’t wait for this trial to be over!
 
JENN MCCABE HAS ARRIVED

and she is here to multiple butt dial, delete texts and calls, say that Karen Read's car was at 34F when it was not, make ominous google searches, and allegedly try to find John O'Keefe's phone while he is dying from a beating.

Enjoy your weekend all!
Oh, good! My memory is pretty pegged. I can't decide what to delete. I should just let JMcC do it!
 
yes, only Jenn McCabe. Do people actually think she is credible in any sense of the word?

seriously, who thinks Jenn McCabe has been a credible witness.

Please chime in here if you do. Jenn needs all the help she can get.
All I can say is her and her family have been harassed, even her children. I can understand why she was so angry and defensive on the stand. She also willingly handed her phone over. Like or dislike, I can understand where she was coming from.
 
My thought is that it has to be that most of the jury are of NG mindsight and there are 1 to 3 for the prosecution. My hope is that those who do feel she is NG and therefore have doubt stick to their instincts and don’t back down thinking the court wants a verdict not a hung jury and/or they want process to end. For me personally I could never change my instinct from NG to G if it meant the likelihood of a potentially innocent person going to prison. I’d rather force it to be hung.

I hope if they do indicate again they can’t reach a consensus that the Judge reads additional instruction and explains further the idea of collective mindset when a majority have doubt.
 
RSBM

Hi there Mister Bedbug

Can you explain the physics of the car/pedestrian strike and also while you are doing that can you explain John O'Keefe's injuries and how they would have been the result of a car strike?

It seems obvious to you but I need it explained. I don't get it.

I don't recall the prosecution really explaining it, unless you agree with Joseph Paul's testimony.

I mean, you think Joseph Paul explained it pretty good, yeah?

He had some sweet theories. Do you agree with them?

Joseph Paul, a swell guy.
I did see and listen to the experts there per FBI I believe. Right, Trooper Paul had a very hard time as it is not his expertise or experience, I believe he said he received a certificate. He was also a state witness, not unbiased.
 
The tail light was largely intact before coming into Canton PD custody.

I don't understand why this is controversial. How can it even be in dispute?

There is video and testimony of it largely intact before coming into Canton PD custody.

Of course, it may go hand in hand with preferring one's own intuition over unbiased experts.

Who really knows.

Sign of the times, I suppose.
I believed Kerry’s Testimony she was shown the tail light and asked if that’s what she saw. The picture the defense uses is when her brakes are on and you can’t tell because of the reflection.
 
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