VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #15

[Spectrix]

1.) if something happened at the residence that accidentally caused JO’s injuries/death, why wasn’t an ambulance called?

2.) If someone at the residence intentionally killed JO, what on earth was the motive?

Yes, quite. In the case of an accident, one would think it would be far easier to call paramedics than to stage a hit & run.

In the case of intentional killing. Lets consider that they're all cops. It's not outside the realms of possibility that JOK might have become aware of corruption involving one or more of the other occupants in that house.

 

[themonk]

Right away I think it’s funny he said she backed out and hit John’s SUV when Wolfe said it’s impossible. Plus the pictures they are using are reflecting and not clear.

RBBM

I don't follow. Wolfe said it's impossible KR hit JO's SUV? When did he say that?

There is video of her doing just that.

 

[Spectrix]

RBBM

I don't follow. Wolfe said it's impossible KR hit JO's SUV? When did he say that?

There is video of her doing just that.

What Wolfe said, in response to a question posed, was that he didn't believe the completely destroyed tail light would have been caused by a minor scrape with another vehicle. I'm not sure sure he'd even seen the video of the event in question.

 

[waldojabba]

That's the scenario I would prefer in terms of keeping faith with modern humanity. And for sure I can imagine the ng minority refusing to budge, it seems to be the nature of irrational conviction just in my opinion.

Honestly? At this point, I’m not sure. I am one of those who really thought early on that KR probably did it. Perhaps she did, but it has not been proven to me beyond a reasonable doubt, not by a long shot, and that is my obligation to KR as a citizen or a juror.

Thanks @OldCop for summing things up in a plain and simple fashion. Because this is truly the essence. Nobody knows on these threads for sure what happened.
We all have our theories but they are just that. Speculation.
It was the CE’s only job at trial to prove KR’s guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. And that never happened.
I came away with only reasonable doubt. That was my ONLY conclusion. An ABUNDANCE of Reasonable Doubt.
Beyond that? Who knows what led to John’s death.

Did he have a random slip and fall accident and then get chewed on by an animal?
Did Higgins whack him with his plow ? Throw him into his car and then drop him off later ( he had a ford edge too)
Did he get suckered punched by the “he who shall not be named kid” who no one mentioned was even in the house for at least 6 months, in the yard as one was coming and one was going?
Did he make it inside the Albert house and get in a physical fight
Etc etc - lots of options and opinions
Including KR hitting him with her car.

Unless more comes to light I do not believe we will ever know what happened here due to so many unforced errors by LE. You hate to see it. But it unfolded like a nightmare before our eyes in that trial.
Sad for the victim. And just embarrassing for the CW.
This was definitely a case that should never have gone to trial.
No matter what verdict gets handed down, this is a big ole black eye for the CW. A wound that will fester for a long time to come - at least until different leadership takes over the DA’s office.
As my Dad told me - the fish rots from the head down.

JMO.

 

[kittythehare]

This weekend one thing. Presuming there is some movement on the jury deadlock (either hung or a verdict) this coming Thursday through Sunday will be a whole nother experience for those folks in Canton. MOO
We can all anticipate another round of local dissension and polarization when the FBI report becomes available, presuming it ever does. In terms of Canton and its local politics and public services: It will be a long time before the fat lady sings.
MOO again.

Does absolutely everybody in Canton know about this?

 

[CourtandSims4]

IMO the state didn't prove their case BARD and I expected to see a fairly quick NG verdict handed down by the jury. Color me surprised. Don’t know what will happen Monday, my guess is still hung jury but we’ll see.

Personally, I have been on the fence in this case and thought it a strong possibility KR did hit and kill JO with her vehicle, but what’s tipping me over the edge is the independent analysis testimony at trial that JO’s injuries/death weren’t caused by vehicle hit.

Having said that, a couple things I personally struggle with if JO was injured and killed at the Albert residence:

1.) if something happened at the residence that accidentally caused JO’s injuries/death, why wasn’t an ambulance called?

2.) If someone at the residence intentionally killed JO, what on earth was the motive?

As to #1 above, for example, if the dog attacked JO and he fell and hit his head hard on something and/or someone swung something to stop the dog and ended up hitting JO in the head, OR if he fell off something in the basement hit his head hard on the floor, I think most people would have called an ambulance in any of these situations. So I don’t think any of these things happened to JO that night, or at least it’s way down my list of possibilities.

As to #2 above, if is the case, I don’t know if we’ll ever know exactly who, as in, which person(s) at the residence that night was responsible for JO’s death. And there’s always a motive in murder, but I definitely don’t think it was result of KR flirting with/leading some other dude on (BH). One motive I could see is if the young man CA killed JO and everyone is lying/covering up for him in order to save him from ruining his life at such a young age/save him from going to prison.
If it was someone else at the residence that night responsible for killing JO (BA, BH, Chloe the dog?) I have more trouble coming up with motive. In either case, for so many people to be involved in a conspiracy/cover up of this magnitude is a bit of a stretch/hard for me to believe they could pull it off for so long without someone talking/spilling the beans, so to speak. But they do seem to be a tight group so making a pact and everyone sticking with it/no one messing up for over 2 years, Hmmmm I guess possible.

Other things that I struggle with,
this was a cop’s home with other cops present and they chose to put a dead man out on the front lawn?? How did they know they wouldn’t be seen by a passerby or a neighbor or that the neighbors didn’t have cameras??
I think cops would have thought about/been more aware of these things than the average person. But I guess if their goal was to frame KR, they had no other choice but to put his body out there because they knew that’s the last place KR was with John and just took their chances they wouldn’t be seen carrying/dragging a dead body out to the front yard?? Maybe they knew for certain neighbors didn’t have cameras? Idk.

So what’s left if you don’t believe KR hit JO with her vehicle killing him, and struggle with the big lie/conspiracy? I realize the conspiracy is the prevailing theory by members here on the thread and elsewhere. It does seem like the logical conclusion if you believe KR is innocent and that JO made it inside the house and don’t believe in coincidences (butt dials, deleting messages, destroying getting rid of phones etc). I normally do not believe in coincidences in murder but this is one case where it’s really bothering me about this being such a huge conspiracy by so many people. Anyway, back to my question about what’s left, what about the theory if after KR dropped JO off, he was attacked outside by some unknown person and/or animal, and fell and hit his head on the ground and/or person hit him hard in the head with something and he passed away outside, and no one realized what happened until KR came to so to speak, and started wondering where he was and went looking for him. And possible plow driver (Lucky) just didn’t see him? Is this far-fetched probably but with no cameras around, does anyone think something like this is a possibility?
I forget if KR said she watched him go inside the house? Either way, she could’ve lied and said she watched him go inside if she thought she was being framed for something she didn’t do. I think the steps on JO’s phone don’t prove he went into the house. If he was attacked outside he could’ve been holding his phone and moving around trying to fight off attacker/animal. Or had it in his pocket (my iPhone counts steps when I hold it or if it’s inside my pocket while I’m moving around cleaning, walking the neighborhood etc.) and phone fell out of pocket at some point during a struggle. The I hit him/did I hit him isn’t strong evidence to me. Due to inebriated state that night, I think possibly KR was having memory issues/possibly blacked out and thought she might have hit him, or was possibly led to believe she did by JM in the conspiracy theory.

One last thing, I am a strong supporter of LE, a few in my family work in LE but I have to say in this case, the investigation for sure was careless and unprofessional with certain procedures and protocols not followed. Inexcusable and imo compromised the case from the jump. As for Trooper Proctor, totally incompetent, unethical, lacking in character and integrity. A total disgrace to his profession and to decent/good cops (imo majority are good) everywhere.

I’ve missed some posts so apologies if some of this has already been discussed. Just wanted to offer some of my thoughts after following the case and the trial.

JO didn’t deserve to die and I hope that ultimately, he receives the justice he rightfully deserves.


All of the above IMHOO

Actually, they would have had to put a knowingly still breathing man in the front yard, risking someone seeing him and saving him. Because this is when Jen McCabe was supposed to have done the search, at 2:27, asking "hos long." This obviously didn't happen at 2:27, as proven by all of Jen's other internet activity at the exact same time. So this really only proved to the jury that the defense is willing to mislead them and play them for idiots.

Anyway, a cop and ATF agent didn't look at John's visible injuries and say "let's say a snowplow did this." The snowplow cover story was Karen's while she was trying to figure out a way out of responsibility, imo. It was just thrown into this coverup conspiracy. (They were gonna blame the snowplow guy, but then they saw KR's cracked tail light!) There is a reason Karen has never looked scared going to court. She knows this story is BS. (And if she is acquitted, she won't sue the CW or anyone else for the same reason.)

I know I am in the tiny minority who believes that the infinite ways in which someone can interact with a MV makes it impossible to say that she could not have been the cause of JO's death. Most of what people imagine is if John was just standing there when the car connected with him at full force. Of course, that didn't happen.

LE was incompetent. That's the problem with this case. But they didn't frame JR, imo. The McAlberts not having a perfect recollection of times of arrival and departure and phone calls and texts doesn't mean much to me because who remembers what time they did with their phone a week ago, let alone months later? And having something to hide doesn't mean that it was about KR. A boston veteran cop, a man, probably has a lot on his phone he doesn't want going into evidence.

 

[cocomod]

I think this case should have been simple to close. Just like OJ - many many years later, everyone still remembers the line “If it doesn’t fit, you must acquit”. As a defense attorney, the closing should have been simple. As a jury, your job is to look at the facts presented in this case. One simple fact stands out - the prosecution have failed to prove that KR hit OJO with her car. Their own ME has said that she cannot definitively say that his injuries were caused by a vehicle. The ME we brought in with so much experience in autopsy has said that his injuries were not caused by a vehicle. The evidence was flawed, tainted, and not documented throughout the investigation The state has failed to PROVE BARD that KR killed him with her vehicle. You must acquit.

I also wish they had hammered home the key sequence as the prosecution theory was totally bonkers! Given their own theory, she wasn’t in possession of her vehicle at that key sequence.

Words matter, but evidence and proof matter more.

 

[Chelly]

Honestly? At this point, I’m not sure. I am one of those who really thought early on that KR probably did it. Perhaps she did, but it has not been proven to me beyond a reasonable doubt, not by a long shot, and that is my obligation to KR as a citizen or a juror.

I'm with @OldCop

 

[keek]

Thanks @OldCop for summing things up in a plain and simple fashion. Because this is truly the essence. Nobody knows on these threads for sure what happened.
We all have our theories but they are just that. Speculation.
It was the CE’s only job at trial to prove KR’s guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. And that never happened.
I came away with only reasonable doubt. That was my ONLY conclusion. An ABUNDANCE of Reasonable Doubt.
Beyond that? Who knows what led to John’s death.

Did he have a random slip and fall accident and then get chewed on by an animal?
Did Higgins whack him with his plow ? Throw him into his car and then drop him off later ( he had a ford edge too)
Did he get suckered punched by the “he who shall not be named kid” who no one mentioned was even in the house for at least 6 months, in the yard as one was coming and one was going?
Did he make it inside the Albert house and get in a physical fight
Etc etc - lots of options and opinions
Including KR hitting him with her car.

Unless more comes to light I do not believe we will ever know what happened here due to so many unforced errors by LE. You hate to see it. But it unfolded like a nightmare before our eyes in that trial.
Sad for the victim. And just embarrassing for the CW.
This was definitely a case that should never have gone to trial.
No matter what verdict gets handed down, this is a big ole black eye for the CW. A wound that will fester for a long time to come - at least until different leadership takes over the DA’s office.
As my Dad told me - the fish rots from the head down.

JMO.

It def starts with the D.A. office and the connections downward and that is how it goes. It has been normalized behavior by that crowd.

 

[waldojabba]

Yes, quite. In the case of an accident, one would think it would be far easier to call paramedics than to stage a hit & run.

In the case of intentional killing. Lets consider that they're all cops. It's not outside the realms of possibility that JOK might have become aware of corruption involving one or more of the other occupants in that house.

And if you are LE living in that house maybe that is why you have no cameras. You have Chloe instead to keep things safe.
You don’t want to Inadvertently record yourself meeting with say a bad guy who pulls up to the house and hands you say a stop and shop bag stuffed full of cash just for instance. Or some other type of illicit exchange.
Bc yes cameras are everywhere here in Norfolk County. Even in the affluent areas. Maybe more so in those areas. More disposable cash to purchase a camera and always a threat of robbery etc bc you do live in the high rent district. If I am a bad guy that’s where I’m headed. .
And it is suspicious that they had none. Did anyone verify ?
Jmo.

 

[CourtandSims4]

In regards to the trial. IMO opinion it doesn't matter if she KR actually hit him or not. What matters is if the prosecution proved that she did. Of everything I have read and watched, they did not sufficiently prove that she hit him. There is much reasonable doubt here. I would think a D.A. would want his case so air tight as to not leave room for doubt. It doesn't seem like this was the case. If I was on this jury my verdict would be not guilty of all charges.

In regards to what may have happened. I believe it was a fight that got completely out of hand with the dog protecting it's owners. Whether it was a beef with CA or BH is unknown, but I would lay odds on BH over CA. BH and KR were texting, and BH was trying to get with KR.

Edited by me for some typos. And there are probably more. I am a horrid typist on my phone lol

The thing is that the CW presented a lot of evidence. The defense had to make the jury feel like all of that evidence was compromised and untrustworthy. That means all of the first responders, LE and the McAlberts had to be discredited. But they didn't bother with Kerry Roberts. That stands out.

There is no reason for her tail light pieces to be there. So she had to leave them there or it had to be planted. Did they prove that Proctor being angry with Karen led to him definitely planting those pieces? It is not proof of that, but I understand why people would not trust him after that. Tunnel vision can be just as damaging as a blatantly planting evidence. But for the conspiracy to work, Proctor helping set Karen up works better because they can claim every person he talked to is tainted through him.

But is that enough to make the jury believe that people are all lying and the only person telling the truth - through her attorneys - is Karen? I can't wait to hear what the split is. I will be surprised if it is in favor of conviction. But also I would be surprised if it is 4 or 5 in favor of conviction.

 

[waldojabba]

In regards to the trial. IMO opinion it doesn't matter if she KR actually hit him or not. What matters is if the prosecution proved that she did. Of everything I have read and watched, they did not sufficiently prove that she hit him. There is much reasonable doubt here. I would think a D.A. would want his case so air tight as to not leave room for doubt. It doesn't seem like this was the case. If I was on this jury my verdict would be not guilty of all charges.

In regards to what may have happened. I believe it was a fight that got completely out of hand with the dog protecting it's owners. Whether it was a beef with CA or BH is unknown, but I would lay odds on BH over CA. BH and KR were texting, and BH was trying to get with KR.

Edited by me for some typos. And there are probably more. I am a horrid typist on my phone lol

BA and BH I think had been drinking a good portion of the day that day and into the night. With the high level of alcohol and testosterone running thru the men’s brains/blood at 34 Fairview anything was possible.
Why do drunk men do anything. This is another, WTH knows answer.
Any reason or no reason.
Impossible to cipher out with any type of logic.
JMO

 

[Curiousobserver]

I think this case should have been simple to close. Just like OJ - many many years later, everyone still remembers the line “If it doesn’t fit, you must acquit”. As a defense attorney, the closing should have been simple. As a jury, your job is to look at the facts presented in this case. One simple fact stands out - the prosecution have failed to prove that KR hit OJO with her car. Their own ME has said that she cannot definitively say that his injuries were caused by a vehicle. The ME we brought in with so much experience in autopsy has said that his injuries were not caused by a vehicle. The evidence was flawed, tainted, and not documented throughout the investigation The state has failed to PROVE BARD that KR killed him with her vehicle. You must acquit.

I also wish they had hammered home the key sequence as the prosecution theory was totally bonkers! Given their own theory, she wasn’t in possession of her vehicle at that key sequence.

Words matter, but evidence and proof matter more.

OJ is the perfect example. And like OJ she can write a book. Instead of calling it If I did it she can call it I hit him, I hit him, I hit him, what if I hit him.

 

[waldojabba]

The thing is that the CW presented a lot of evidence. The defense had to make the jury feel like all of that evidence was compromised and untrustworthy. That means all of the first responders, LE and the McAlberts had to be discredited. But they didn't bother with Kerry Roberts. That stands out.

There is no reason for her tail light pieces to be there. So she had to leave them there or it had to be planted. Did they prove that Proctor being angry with Karen led to him definitely planting those pieces? It is not proof of that, but I understand why people would not trust him after that. Tunnel vision can be just as damaging as a blatantly planting evidence. But for the conspiracy to work, Proctor helping set Karen up works better because they can claim every person he talked to is tainted through him.

But is that enough to make the jury believe that people are all lying and the only person telling the truth - through her attorneys - is Karen? I can't wait to hear what the split is. I will be surprised if it is in favor of conviction. But also I would be surprised if it is 4 or 5 in favor of conviction.

Forget Karen and the CW witnesses for a second.
The only people I truly believed and sense were truly unbiased were the fbi experts / far smarter in their field than the CW’s Trooper Paul and his book report.
You look at the autopsy photos, listen to all experts, and you see and know without a doubt the injuries are not consistent with being hit fo a car.
Then you pray for Justice.
JMO

 

[turaj]

Does absolutely everybody in Canton know about this?

it seems like a pretty tight community and the Alberts seem to have a hand in everything.

 

[JudyBolton]

Right away I think it’s funny he said she backed out and hit John’s SUV when Wolfe said it’s impossible. Plus the pictures they are using are reflecting and not clear.

At least they *have* pictures of the vehicle...unlike the CW. But notice how the CW *did* have clear photos of JO's car, however, so I found that a bit suspicious.

 

[kittythehare]

it seems like a pretty tight community and the Alberts seem to have a hand in everything.

I'm having difficulty picturing it.. how small is small?
I know this was not the start of the problems here but I wonder at its impact...
Like, do teenagers attending school all know about it? Things like that..

 

[jepop]

Missing Canton Library footage: Folks have speculated that it's missing because it showed intact tail light after KR left 34 Fairview at around 12.30am.

Here's a what if to chew over:

What if the footage is missing because it showed lexus receiving the minor tail light damage (crack and small hole) that is evident in the 5am 1 Meadows ring footage? Does the time-line allow for KR have to pulled over near library briefly to, say, make one of her earliest unanswered calls to JO on the way back that night, and when pulling out drunk and pissed off swiped that tail light against a parked vehicle or something. No memory in the am except maybe ''Did I hit something? *advertiser censored* my bf is missing, did I hit him?'

Could take a minute or less for that damage to occur in front of library.? Then later Proctor gets access to footage, has it disappear and heck even pops down there to recover a piece or two of tail light for planting on the scene?

When exactly did Proctor see that footage and when did it disappear?

 

[JudyBolton]

The thing is that the CW presented a lot of evidence. The defense had to make the jury feel like all of that evidence was compromised and untrustworthy. That means all of the first responders, LE and the McAlberts had to be discredited. But they didn't bother with Kerry Roberts. That stands out.

There is no reason for her tail light pieces to be there. So she had to leave them there or it had to be planted. Did they prove that Proctor being angry with Karen led to him definitely planting those pieces? It is not proof of that, but I understand why people would not trust him after that. Tunnel vision can be just as damaging as a blatantly planting evidence. But for the conspiracy to work, Proctor helping set Karen up works better because they can claim every person he talked to is tainted through him.

But is that enough to make the jury believe that people are all lying and the only person telling the truth - through her attorneys - is Karen? I can't wait to hear what the split is. I will be surprised if it is in favor of conviction. But also I would be surprised if it is 4 or 5 in favor of conviction.

The point is the defense did not have to prove anything...(I'm sure you already knew that!)

 

[RANCH]

The point is the defense did not have to prove anything...(I'm sure you already knew that!)

The defense did bring in their own witness's. I assume it was to prove that certain parts of the CW's case was wrong. JMO.