VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #15

[arielilane]

I understand what you are saying, @arielilane. The thing is, the defense has to defend. They can’t just let the prosecution witnesses’ proclamations go unchecked.
If they did, Proctor would get up there and say he conducted a stellar investigation, found all the evidence, (and handled it properly), interviewed witnesses, and can prove without a reasonable doubt that KR committed manslaughter.
Lally went on for WEEKS without hardly even mentioning how JOK was killed and how KR did it. When he finally got around to it even his own medical examiner couldn’t conclude that JOK was killed from being struck by a motor vehicle.
The defense rested it’s case after 2 days.

Agreed. They certainly created reasonable doubt.. that seed firmly planted.
Not a fan of how the CW's case was presented.
moo

 

[arielilane]

Just to play devils advocate here.
KR was already terrified that something terrible might have happened because JOK hadn't returned home.
Is it possible that Jen McCabe suggested to KR that she'd broken her tail light by hitting JOK?

I wonder if KR even remembers much of anything from that night/morning. moo

 

[thebedbug]

I don't know a lot about this case, but reading the article just posted, why does "I hit him" have to imply she hit him with a car? Did she clarify that that was what she meant? Or was it just assumed?

Karen's early morning actions aren't just relegated to a single moment of "I hit him." There are many things, including testimony from the kids, that we did not hear.

Also, remember... Karen's own words in her Nightline interview were that she saw JO get out of the car and walk up the driveway.

KAREN READ: "So I pull at the foot of the driveway. It's snowing. John has no coat on. It's windy. So I drop him off. He goes up the driveway and approaches the side door, and as I see him approach the door, I look down at my phone."

Read says after about 10 minutes of waiting in her car, she became irritated that O'Keefe still hadn't gotten in touch with her, and she drove back to his home, where she continued calling him before she says she fell asleep around 1:30 in the morning.

She then says she woke up before 5 a.m. He still wasn't home. She then started canvassing the neighborhood.


Every KR supporter has to reconcile this with what happened... is she telling the truth here or is she lying?

 

[Aquarian]

I guess we’ll never know why she was waiting out front for him? Why not just drop him and go on your way. What was he supposed to be reporting back on?

 

[Spectrix]

Have you considered the possibility that JO's arm scratches may have been self inflicted?

This is a solid theory, good work.
There is just one minor issue, JOK wasn't found to have any claws or fangs.

 

[vlbay]

Karen's early morning actions aren't just relegated to a single moment of "I hit him." There are many things, including testimony from the kids, that we did not hear.

Also, remember... Karen's own words in her Nightline interview were that she saw JO get out of the car and walk up the driveway.

KAREN READ: "So I pull at the foot of the driveway. It's snowing. John has no coat on. It's windy. So I drop him off. He goes up the driveway and approaches the side door, and as I see him approach the door, I look down at my phone."

Read says after about 10 minutes of waiting in her car, she became irritated that O'Keefe still hadn't gotten in touch with her, and she drove back to his home, where she continued calling him before she says she fell asleep around 1:30 in the morning.

She then says she woke up before 5 a.m. He still wasn't home. She then started canvassing the neighborhood.


Every KR supporter has to reconcile this with what happened... is she telling the truth here or is she lying?

I appreciate that. Thank you. I guess I was just wondered if she was saying "I hit him," meaning she'd physically punched/slapped him the last time she'd seen him--not that she'd run him over with a car. I don't know what or how that would change things, but not knowing the case, when I first saw the word 'hit' I thought it was a physical fight.

 

[Spectrix]

I guess we’ll never know why she was waiting out front for him? Why not just drop him and go on your way. What was he supposed to be reporting back on?

I remember reading that Karen wasn't sure if either her or John were even welcome at the Alberts party since they didn't know them well. She was waiting to hear back from John because he might have needed a lift home.

I appreciate that. Thank you. I guess I was just wondered if she was saying "I hit him," meaning she'd physically punched/slapped him the last time she'd seen him--not that she'd run him over with a car. I don't know what or how that would change things, but not knowing the case, when I first saw the word 'hit' I thought it was a physical fight.

That's an interesting point. It is possible that she slapped or punched him (or thought she had) since they were both rotten drunk and they supposedly had argued in the car.

 

[keek]

I remember reading that Karen wasn't sure if either her or John were even welcome at the Alberts party since they didn't know them well. She was waiting to hear back from John because he might have needed a lift home.



That's an interesting point. It's possible she slapped him since they were both rotten drunk and they supposedly had argued in the car.

She was his ride there and was waiting to see what was his plan, he was going and she was not. He did not reply to her texts once he went in, and attacked in minutes. She assumed the worst, which to her was he was ignoring her.

 

[kittythehare]

Agreed. They certainly created reasonable doubt.. that seed firmly planted.
Not a fan of how the CW's case was presented.
moo

I don't believe they 'created' reasonable doubt.
I think they highlighted existing facts of the case.

The victim's injuries, fact , were not consistent with a vehicle impact.
This is BARD.

The rest is pretty much BARD too.

The 'conspiracies' as everyone likes to call them were an attempt at seeking motivation.

I don't know what the motivation was.

They were reasonable guesses based upon the testimonies of the CW witnesses.

I started watching this trial on Tube, accidentally, believing she was surely guilty.
When I listened to the CW witnesses, I was appalled, even the dog walker lied and claimed she had never been inside the Albers or Mc Cabe house..
WHY?

It was outrageous.

BTW I come from a LE family and had a very positive experience of the Boston police during a trip there in the 70's.. They were extraordinarily kind to hapless hitch hikers..
It's utterly tragic that it will be almost impossible to investigate JOK's death now, house sold, basement dug up, prior.. contaminated crime scene from outset and everybody nicely lawyered up..

I really cannot see how a new investigation can even begin.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

When all else fails -- deflect - deviate - look away - I’ve got a story to tell.

Was KR and defense attempting to incorporate a blogger’s outside handy work into their story line?
Why was all the extra unnecessary conspiracy, framing theory, info, etc. necessary to present in a court of law?

moo

-- KR communicated with a blogger and provided info about the case that was not public.

Alleged link between murder suspect Karen Read, 'Turtleboy' detailed in document

Investigators have evidence appearing to show that murder suspect Karen Read had frequent contact with a controversial blogger known as "Turtleboy."

www.wcvb.com

Updated: 6:42 PM EST Jan 31, 2024

With all due respect given, not certain I understand the significance of this.

From observing crime investigations over the years, it is IMO not uncommon for a defendant or relatives of e.g. the missing or accused to contact others and even news, media, or private investigators, etc. for assistance. With no intent to thread hop - by example - in the LISK / GILGO NY / NJ case of Rex Heuermann IIRC the Gilbert family contacted others in attempt to start and amplify the perceived stalled investigation. Some of that is in the ‘Lost Girls’ documentary.

Link on the Lost Girls documentary:

Lost Girls (film) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There are also several WS threads here on that continuing and expanding LISK investigation.

Last week I watched an episode on a long unsolved crime in which a family member had been murdered. IIRC a surviving relative went to the interesting approach to offer a reward and to publish notice of it in nearby jails and prisons. A fruitful lead developed, was pursued, and the cold case was solved. (Unfortunately the name of that case escapes me at the moment.)

I am not certain the lengths I personally might go to or enlist if a family member or friend was in need of similar assistance. But I envision they could be quite involved and expansive if necessary? MOO

 

[geevee]

It doesn't matter to me that they were hired by the FBI and being completely neutral doesn't mean they are 100% correct or infallible. They should certainly know there are uncertainties in reconstructing an incident, especially based entirely on pictures and incomplete information.

You can only have expected injuries if you're certain about all of the circumstances and variables of the impact... which we are clearly not.

I can guess. KR guns it in reverse and he might've fallen down... perhaps on one knee... perhaps in the process of getting back up and trying to scramble out of the way, then gets hit. Maybe she stops and even backs over him a little more? There are a lot of scenarios that could've happened and unfortunately the weather played a part in making those harder to discern.

You're forgetting that the key cycle log proves she did not have possession of her vehicle when it backed up at 24 mph.

 

[turaj]

I guess we’ll never know why she was waiting out front for him? Why not just drop him and go on your way. What was he supposed to be reporting back on?

i got the impression that he was not sure he would be staying.

 

[keek]

You're forgetting that the key cycle log proves she did not have possession of her vehicle when it backed up at 24 mph.

Say it again, she did NOT have possession of her car when it was backed up at 24 mph. There goes all the theorists of she backed up into him, maybe again and on and on in a fury and with intent. That that 24 mph back up into caused only his severe head injuries, front and back. But it did not happen. Was it Trooper Paul that did that test, I believe it was him. No checking and comparing times of where KR's SUV was when that event test occurred by the CW it seems.

 

[Aquarian]

i got the impression that he was not sure he would be staying.

Well maybe that’s what she is implying. But they had phone calls and mapping to try and get there, that’s sure a big waste to not intend to stay. I’m not sure I can rationalize all that.

 

[themonk]

Pretty interesting to revisit testimony of the medical examiner, a prosecution witness.

Prosecution rests in Karen Read murder trial, plow driver said he never saw body

The prosecution rested its case on Friday in Karen Read's high-profile Massachusetts murder trial after nearly two months of witness testimony.

www.cbsnews.com

During cross-examination, defense attorney Elizabeth Little questioned Scordid-Bello about the different ways that O'Keefe could've received the injuries on the back of his head.

"It could also include something like a baseball bat.... or a German shepherd's claws?" Little asked.

"Possibly, yes," Dr. Scorid-Bello said.

Scordi-Bello confirmed that she did not see any significant injuries to the lower half of O'Keefe's body, such as broken bones or fractures during the autopsy. She was questioned about the possibilities of how O'Keefe received injuries to his face, head, and arms.

"Would you agree that the injuries to his face are consistent with having been punched?" Little asked.

Scordi-Bello said, "That is a possibility."


"Would you agree that John O'Keefe's injuries to his arm are inconsistent with having been struck by a vehicle at 24 mph?"
Little asked.

"I don't know," Scordi-Bello replied.



This alone is reasonable doubt IMO

On top of all the evasions, lies etc on the part of CW witnesses and deception on the part of the CW itself.

Good grief.

 

[themonk]

Maybe she stops and even backs over him a little more?

RSBM

Do you think JO's injuries suggest this is what happened?

 

[keek]

Well maybe that’s what she is implying. But they had phone calls and mapping to try and get there, that’s sure a big waste to not intend to stay. I’m not sure I can rationalize all that.

It was all within minutes between locations. She was his ride of choice as they were together and she decided to not go in as not feeling well, stomach issues, which she documented does have medical issues. Higgins was there and if her I would not of gone in either due to prior interaction with him that was obv a mistake to have done that. HE was going in for whatever his real reasons were, she was wary, they were not her friends. Not a place she wanted to be in, but she would of course planned, along with him to wait or come back if he NEEDED her to. He should of been able to grab a ride back home, minutes away, from any of them, if all was above board. It was not. She just needed to know the plan.

 

[Aquarian]

It was all within minutes between locations. She was his ride of choice as they were together and she decided to not go in as not feeling well, stomach issues, which she documented does have medical issues. Higgins was there and if her I would not of gone in either due to prior interaction with him that was obv a mistake to have done that. HE was going in for whatever his real reasons were, she was wary, they were not her friends. Not a place she wanted to be in, but she would of course planned, along with him to wait or come back if he NEEDED her to. He should have been able to grab a ride back home, minutes away, from any of them, if all was above board. It was not. She just needed to know the plan.

Yes I realize they all moved about in a small geographic area. But from the Waterfall videos, KR was noted to be just as social as the next person. I can buy her stomach ailments, not so much that they weren’t properly invited. As many say, didn’t JM try and drag her along with them? I would take that as being welcomed.

 

[OldCop]

It doesn't matter to me that they were hired by the FBI and being completely neutral doesn't mean they are 100% correct or infallible. They should certainly know there are uncertainties in reconstructing an incident, especially based entirely on pictures and incomplete information.



I can guess. KR guns it in reverse and he might've fallen down... perhaps on one knee... perhaps in the process of getting back up and trying to scramble out of the way, then gets hit. Maybe she stops and even backs over him a little more? There are a lot of scenarios that could've happened and unfortunately the weather played a part in making those harder to discern.

RSBM. “You can only have expected injuries if you're certain about all of the circumstances and variables of the impact... which we are clearly not.”
But there would be expected injuries if he had been hit by a car in any way. Every possibility you suggest would leave bruising, fractures, broken bones below the head, internal injuries and more. The experts who testified did not come to a conclusion as to how he was killed, only that he was not killed from an impact from a mv.

 

[shotgun09]

As a human being with numerous faults of my own, I sincerely hope that I never step foot in any jurisdiction where the powers that be can take me to trial, over a Highly Emotional Claim (See Thread Headline ) with tainted and tampered evidence by a morally corrupt system. It is frightening to say the least. This is not just about Karen Read. IMO

Peace. And, " Be careful out there".