VERDICT WATCH MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #15

[arielilane]

@149Zone7

This jury has twice spoken and the judge refuses to accept their hung. They are split - I have said numerous times the public at large is your jury - look how split everyone is - there’s your answer! I have stated numerous times here at it’s less about if she’s guilty and more about did they prove it. What you think, feel or believe does not factor - only what has been proven!


Last edited11:51 AM · Jul 1, 2024

 

[turaj]

Yes! I tended to wonder something similar. And if so…… is that grounds for a dismissal and / or mistrial? And would that be another appellate issue as well ? IANAL

it does smack of some chatgpt....

 

[jepop]

I have the same thoughts.

I note with particular interest that the Albert clan didn't bother attending any of the of the rest of the trial, yet they suddenly turned up on the day that the jury were to begin their deliberations.

Each of them filled in to court and sat themselves down directly facing the jury.
To me it looked like a warning: "Find her guilty, or you could be next..."

Just a tad transparent, they're not the most subtle people around moo

 

[OldCop]

This is exactly what I believed the case to be last week. Their beliefs (convictions) are what’s holding them back. As they state, they are not having difficulty with rational thinking re all evidence since it says it’s not for a lack of understanding. Unfortunately imo everyone has these biases whether implicit or explicit. It’s a shame that this can hold them back.

I think there are probably 2-3 G voters that are in disagreement with the majority. I don’t see anyone changing their mind at this point.

Thanks for posting the note- tuning in late today so I missed the exact wording

Facts and evidence thrown out based on beliefs. Wow!
Shaking my head in DISbelief

 

[waldojabba]

It would be exactly the same as this one unless they move it out of State, which is probably what they should have done to begin with.

I wouldn't be holding my breath for a meaningful FBI outcome either tho. Higgins is in there, remember.

HIggins is ATF iirc. Two separate agencies that oftern work together.
jmo

 

[arielilane]

From earlier: "I think this has been an extraordinary jury. I've never seen a note like this," Judge Beverly Cannone says before deciding to read the Tuey-Rodriguez instruction.
12:19 PM · Jul 1, 2024

https://twitter.com/x/status/1807811183136977260

 

[jepop]

This is exactly what I believed the case to be last week. Their beliefs (convictions) are what’s holding them back. As they state, they are not having difficulty with rational thinking re all evidence since it says it’s not for a lack of understanding. Unfortunately imo everyone has these biases whether implicit or explicit. It’s a shame that this can hold them back.

I think there are probably 2-3 G voters that are in disagreement with the majority. I don’t see anyone changing their mind at this point.

Thanks for posting the note- tuning in late today so I missed the exact wording

But when an individual is being held back by beliefs and convictions then I do not see how they can be reaching decisions based on thought processes that are rooted in reason and rationality. Personal beliefs have clouded applying reason to evidence. This is nothing to do with intelligence, rudeness, or calling one juror better than another. Its about a jury's duty to consider the evidence and parse the facts, putting aside for the time being biases and personal beliefs and convictions jmo

 

[turaj]

If there is a lesson here it simply has to be that more care needs to be taken during jury selection.

any polls on any forum etc. all have some voting guilty...I think the jury is representative of the population at large in divided opinion.

 

[thebedbug]

at this point it is just a formality. I see some on other forums saying this is a win for KR..I just don't see it.

it depends. if CW decides to re-try the case, I'd think they could definitely find someone to do a better job in both making the case and blunting the conspiracy angles put forth by the defense.

on the other hand, if they believe that was their best effort, they might decide not to re-try the case and since i wouldn't really expect any 'new' evidence to surface - it could be a win for KR.

 

[waldojabba]

Facts and evidence thrown out based on beliefs. Wow!
Shaking my head in DISbelief

IMO just a sad reflection of the times we live in @OldCop
The mistust and dismissal of science and education in general -people making their own rules, its an upside down world and we are none the better for it. I mourn the loss of integrity on many levels in most all of my dealings. The win at any cost mentality is a cancer on society.
JMO

 

[Warwick7]

Deeply held convictions--- that's personal feelings not examining facts and witnesses.

And because they are "deeply held" makes it sound like they were held on to before the trial began. If so, then they lied when they were vetted as to being able to be unbiased.

 

[thebedbug]

The part about fundamental differences based upon deeply held convictions says something. I believe there are some on the jury that may not be able to believe there are bad cops. JMO

Or there are some on the jury so receptive to hints of conspiracy they can't separate that from physical evidence and what likely happened. JMO

 

[kittythehare]

any polls on any forum etc. all have some voting guilty...I think the jury is representative of the population at large in divided opinion.

Polls in forums are not the same as jury duty, lots of polls will vote guilty cos they don't like the way she looks or dresses or her mannerisms or personality.
They swore no oaths.

He did not die from a vehicular injury, is all.

 

[Moonstrawbs]

IMO just a sad reflection of the times we live in @OldCop
The mistust and dismissal of science and education in general -people making their own rules, its an upside down world and we are none the better for it. I mourn the loss of integrity on many levels in most all of my dealings. The win at any cost mentality is a cancer on society.
JMO

Seems like it's more about politics, relationship dynamics and personal judgements instead of FACTUAL EVIDENCE. It's ridiculous. Jmo.

 

[shotgun09]

any polls on any forum etc. all have some voting guilty...I think the jury is representative of the population at large in divided opinion.

Voting with emotionalism vs logic
IMO

 

[CourtandSims4]

I feel like even if the CW presented evidence showing that KR was blackout drunk

IMO the only compelling evidence presented by the CW was that KR was blackout drunk that night, and still intoxicated the following morning. Several CW witnesses testified that she was struggling to recollect key events the next morning.

What Jen McCabe had to say about the fiercely debated Google search, the broken taillight, and Karen Read’s alleged ‘I hit him’ statements

Jen McCabe detailed the frantic search for John O'Keefe while on the witness stand Friday.

www.boston.com

In hindsight, if Yanetti and KR had known that LE would soon be under federal investigation, they would not have taken any information from the CW at face value - especially since the fbi would later release results from an independent investigation with overwhelming evidence that KR could not have been responsible,

Karen and her defense say that she was not that drunk.

 

[jepop]

A mistrial is better than a guilty verdict. No spinning necessary. If a mistrial is declared then the cw did not prove their case.

I'm beginning to perceive the silver lining...

 

[waldojabba]

it depends. if CW decides to re-try the case, I'd think they could definitely find someone to do a better job in both making the case and blunting the conspiracy angles put forth by the defense.

on the other hand, if they believe that was their best effort, they might decide not to re-try the case and since i wouldn't really expect any 'new' evidence to surface - it could be a win for KR.

I love how the word conspiracy gets bandied about. Optics imo.
The other more accurate word IMO for it is "business as usual".
A group decides to set up an individual - for a reason or no reason - I used to see it all the time in Corporate America until I ran out screaming lol and founded my own company.
The stakes were maybe not as high in corporate America but people lost thier jobs etc because they got targeted by people in positions of power or were targeted to become the fall guy for failed projects bc they happened not to be in favor or were percceived as "other".
JMO

 

[Maat99]

Or there are some on the jury so receptive to hints of conspiracy they can't separate that from physical evidence and what likely happened. JMO

Once again, the fbi did an independent investigation and provided compelling evidence that KR could not have killed JO. And physical evidence for what “likely happened” is not “beyond a reasonable doubt”.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Or there are some on the jury so receptive to hints of conspiracy they can't separate that from physical evidence and what likely happened. JMO

Nah, we completely understood that physical evidence that actually made sense and was explained by unbiased experts, not Trooper Paul.