MISTRIAL MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #16

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PenelopeJude said:
And, what I really, really want to know is what cases was John working on leading up to this (going back at least 6 months)? Every one of his phone calls, emails, etc. Could he have found out something he shouldn’t have found out? Especially with Sandra Birchmore and the fact Lank and Kevin Albert were first to respond there (also a cover-up), there are just so many possibilities/alternatives to what the real story is. Nothing made sense from what I saw in court. Which usually means it isn’t the story.
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RSBM.

JMO - it is hard to believe that one person is investigating the case. Usually, it is a group. Information is shared with the group, too. It is very difficult to silence the whole group.
To add, for any successful conspiracy, the conspirators have to be: a) all very smart, and b) exceptionally organized. Rule a) doesn't apply to Canton cops. Rule b) might (after all, most have military background), but then, I see no one who could assume leadership and also, alcohol erodes discipline and self-organization like nothing else. So, it is hard for me to believe in conspiracy because they would make weak conspirators. MOO.
 
kittythehare said:
I'll try.

The evidence that he was hit by a vehicle was simply not evident from his body.

They're after screwing up the entire justice system to prove what cannot be proved.
To me this is completely insane and I want to know why they're doing it and how far do they intend taking it? Who gains, in their group mind?
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I think it's easier/simpler than people think. All it takes is a few people willing to lie to cover a secret, and officers in law enforcement loyal to those people after growing up with them, having them babysit their kids, etc. and you can get a full-blown coverup going pretty quickly. Then it's all about covering their butt in order to cover your own, lest your own misdeeds become public knowledge. Things can spiral rather quickly.
 
Charlot123 said:
RSBM.

JMO - it is hard to believe that one person is investigating the case. Usually, it is a group. Information is shared with the group, too. It is very difficult to silence the whole group.
To add, for any successful conspiracy, the conspirators have to be: a) all very smart, and b) exceptionally organized. Rule a) doesn't apply to Canton cops. Rule b) might (after all, most have military background), but then, I see no one who could assume leadership and also, alcohol erodes discipline and self-organization like nothing else. So, it is hard for me to believe in conspiracy because they would make weak conspirators. MOO.
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Please see my above post. That doesn't have to be true at all. Sometimes you can be a useful idiot who is eager to please and doesn't ask too many questions, and just goes along with whatever the "official" narrative is.
 
iusedtofloat said:
Please see my above post. That doesn't have to be true at all. Sometimes you can be a useful idiot who is eager to please and doesn't ask too many questions, and just goes along with whatever the "official" narrative is.
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Previously I posted something along the lines of being afraid to ask too many questions. This is why i wanted to know if such texts would be typical for Proctor, or exaggerated. I'll watch the Stoughton case. If in the process things get really tough for Canton PD, their friends might scatter away to save their necks, and then we could find out more.
 
Charlot123 said:
RSBM.

JMO - it is hard to believe that one person is investigating the case. Usually, it is a group. Information is shared with the group, too. It is very difficult to silence the whole group.
To add, for any successful conspiracy, the conspirators have to be: a) all very smart, and b) exceptionally organized. Rule a) doesn't apply to Canton cops. Rule b) might (after all, most have military background), but then, I see no one who could assume leadership and also, alcohol erodes discipline and self-organization like nothing else. So, it is hard for me to believe in conspiracy because they would make weak conspirators. MOO.
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There are a lot of diverse opinions on these threads from those posters who believe KR innocent.IMO. I don't believe we all fall into one simple basket when it comes to theorising/speculating on what may have occurred. Jmo

My take, for example, is KR couldn't have done this owing to medical and other expert evidence presented at trial. Because of this I believe JO was killed in some other way. I also believe the expert medical evidence pertaining to the arm wounds and am convinced BARD they were inflicted by a dog and given the context that dog is very likely to have been Chloe.jmo

Regarding RBBM in your post, that is an interesting abstract theory on what a conspiracy is but it is one theory/your opinion. The truth is probably a lot simpler yet does involve some level of cover up or keeping mum by players unknown but likely amongst those witnesses who testified. IMO

I certainly do not believe what occurred has much to do with fitting into rules a) and b) of your theory above. It's a shame a proper, impartial investigation of all potential POIs was never conducted. Imo

I agree with some others here that we may never reach the truth of what actually unfolded. That is not justice for JO or his family and IMO that is firmly on the head of a flawed investigation, then on the DA for prolonging the situation by pushing for trial and then the Judge for finding enough at prelim to go ahead and pushing the flawed case through. Moo

ETA First sentence of post: Regarding the idea that the entire investigating team would have to know if one of that team planted a bit of evidnnce such as some tail light pieces doesn't hold with me. It could involve only one person (Proctor for instance). On top of that, it isn't necessary that any of the Albert,Higgins, McCabes etc have to have known anything about it, if evidence was planted. MOO
 
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Charlot123 said:
RSBM.

JMO - it is hard to believe that one person is investigating the case. Usually, it is a group. Information is shared with the group, too. It is very difficult to silence the whole group.
To add, for any successful conspiracy, the conspirators have to be: a) all very smart, and b) exceptionally organized. Rule a) doesn't apply to Canton cops. Rule b) might (after all, most have military background), but then, I see no one who could assume leadership and also, alcohol erodes discipline and self-organization like nothing else. So, it is hard for me to believe in conspiracy because they would make weak conspirators. MOO.
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Only two cops have to really be in on it. Lank and Proctor. From there, they start the ball rolling to where the rest of them don’t know they are even a part of it. The rest are following orders and the lead of these two, never even second guessing the integrity/truth. Maybe that chief too, if I had to add one more. The rest were just supporting their unit/badge as they do every day. They aren’t supposed to have a dirty cop in their bunch so they can’t even contemplate it happening to their unit.i can see it happening very easily.
 
iusedtofloat said:
I think it's easier/simpler than people think. All it takes is a few people willing to lie to cover a secret, and officers in law enforcement loyal to those people after growing up with them, having them babysit their kids, etc. and you can get a full-blown coverup going pretty quickly. Then it's all about covering their butt in order to cover your own, lest your own misdeeds become public knowledge. Things can spiral rather quickly.
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I generally agree with this.

IMO Proctor simply assumed it was obvious what happened, did a rubbish investigation in the first hours and days, then everything after that is just CYA

I think this kind of institutional conspiracy is far more likely.

IMO
 
Charlot123 said:
Previously I posted something along the lines of being afraid to ask too many questions. This is why i wanted to know if such texts would be typical for Proctor, or exaggerated. I'll watch the Stoughton case. If in the process things get really tough for Canton PD, their friends might scatter away to save their necks, and then we could find out more.
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Hopefully he didn't screw up the Ana Walshe case.
 
<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

KR has plenty of friends and there has been mention of them throughout this case. Here is one recent article

Karen Read Murder Trial Is ‘a Circus,’ Says Friend Who Slams Claim She Killed Police Trooper Boyfriend (Exclusive)​

people.com

Karen Read Murder Trial Is ‘a Circus,’ Says Friend Who Slams Claim She Killed Police Trooper Boyfriend (Exclusive)

Karen Read is accused of murdering her boyfriend John O’Keefe in 2022, but she contends she's the victim of a massive police coverup.
people.com people.com
 
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I have seen comments before that a dog walker for Chloe testified. Does anyone have a link? I have tried googling but haven't found anything and I'm not sure if she was in court or if she only spoke to police.
 
<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>
How many people can take weeks off work to sit in a courtroom 8 hours a day? The reality is none of us know a single thing about her personal life other than what has been entered into evidence.
 
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jepop said:
I agree about this being something bigger. The CW and DA's office with the Judge's blessing clearly allowed this case to go to trial with sub standard evidence. jmo But I'm not buying for present the implication that a jury member was somehow got to and tainted? While we don't know the number of gs, it does not surprise me really that some were able to ignore the medical evidence probably owing to the pull of an opposing strong emotional conviction. This is common amongst us IRL jmo. However, I am suspicious as to whether all jurors were adequately aware of their duty to be impartial: that strong convictions unrelated to a reasonable assessment of evidence should be put aside. Those notes from the jury I found kind ofstrange and contradictory. jmo

I have questions centred around whether or not the court judge sufficiently charged the jury regarding the concept of reasonable doubt and evidence. Whether there was sufficient understanding regarding putting aside personal bias and convictions and feelings to impartially assess evidence. jmo

Also, and this has been discussed a little bit, I know it it's a Court Rule that allows a judge to select the foreperson from the entire pool of jurors and alternates, but that is something I cannot understand because it is open for judicial bias and so easily fixed. Simply by having judge select foreperson after the 12 jurors have been drawn. I don't understand the rationale behind that Court Rule. moo
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Yes jepop….. so true.

And wait until those 12 paneled jurors learn that it was an apparent federal solicited / third party / FBI conducted investigation being conducted. And once they learn reasons why that was being done. I wonder what the jurors believed about those points? (As IMO evidence allowed in court about that was so ‘spotty’ and uncertain.)

I wish that reporter interviewing the one alternate juror had asked her about those points. MOO
 
jepop said:
During his testimony it was brought into evidence that Proctor was also sending misogynistic texts about Karen Read within a text group that included other Troopers including Bukhenic. And I am almost 100 percent certain that at least one of these text messages (I won't rewatch Proctor's testimony to post which one ugghh) was 'liked' by Bukhenic. I can still hear Jackson's voice as he confronted Proctor over that one. Proctor gave evidence after Bukhenic and you can see Lally's hand in that strategically ofcourse. moo

ETA Bukhenic testified to being Proctor's supervisor in name, if not in practice. That's why Lally had him up there first to try and get in evidence supervisor's faith in Proctor doing his job.Imo. Unfortunately for Lally Bukhenic's credibility may have taken a hit cos inverted Sally Port video that he failed to alert jury to under direct as did Lally Jmo. It must have taken somewhat of a second hit when his tacit approval of Proctor's misogyny was exposed when Proctor himself testified. JMO
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Yes!…. I wonder if that text might have been the one where the judge had specifically requested proctor to speak fully for the court record the word he had used starting with the letter “C”? (He was IMO cavalierly trying to spell it out instead.)

That one, or the text about the balloon? Or maybe that IIRC in which he spoke of KR as a ‘whacko’ or ‘whack job’ was it? Weren’t similar words also used to refer to the ME? I am not going to be able to listen to all that again either - and maybe I am misremembering some of that? MOO
 
I am not Sherlock H. said:
Yes!…. I wonder if that text might have been the one where the judge had specifically requested proctor to speak fully for the court record the word he had used starting with the letter “C”? (He was IMO cavalierly trying to spell it out instead.)

That one, or the text about the balloon? Or maybe that IIRC in which he spoke of KR as a ‘whacko’ or ‘whack job’ was it? Weren’t similar words also used to refer to the ME? I am not going to be able to listen to all that again either - and maybe I am misremembering some of that? MOO
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You remembered it all perfectly.
 
I wonder if the judge and others might want this case to be hurriedly retried again before the federal / FBI report is completed, issued, and released?

And if so why? IIRC the MSP announcement referred to a number of new learnings based on trial testimony and evidence.

If so, perhaps there is quite a bit that needs to be investigated and examined. And well in advance of any decision made to retry or other. MOO
 
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