MISTRIAL MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #16

[mrjitty]

I agree with you 100%. I don’t think anyone - KR, an Albert, or a McCabe - had motive to kill John. I think his death was an accident. I’m also with you on what I refer to as a “benevolent” coverup - not done to cover the tracks of a murderer, but to strengthen a weak case against someone the cops earnestly thought did the crime.

"Benevolent cover up" - love it!

 

[minazoe]

so is everyone thinking that he was killed after the guests who didn't see a body arrived? so this is the theory that it happened in the house? so why believe the party arrivers who didn't see him on the lawn? surely they knew if something happened in the house? so omigod this case is a Rubik's cube.

 

[geevee]

I don't know what happened to JO, and I think the chance to know was lost when they bungled the crime scene.

I also strongly believe that a prosecution which introduced flipped video, with a witness who then presumably perjured himself about that video (how could he not realise??) cannot be trusted with any of its exhibits IMO. I'll die on the hill that the judge should have tossed the case when that happened.

I'll thus accept as a real possibility that evidence might have been planted. I just don't assume it was done to cover up the real kilers. It could have been done because they believed KR did it but they bungled it.

As noted by others previously, I think it is actually more likely JO had some kind of accident than a fight.

MOO

I was actually shocked the defense didn't motion for a mistrial the minute it was realized the video was inverted, shown to the jury and the witness (who knows the layout of the sally port) testified it was an accurate depiction.

Does the defense have to ask for the mistrial openly or could they have done it at the sidebar? And if they did do it at sidebar, what possible reasoning could the judge have had to deny it?

The whole thing was just mind-blowing, esp. given the defense's theory that she was being set up, this looked like proof positive of that, it could in no way have been accidental as Bukhenic knows exactly what the sally port looks like and he and Lally got caught red-handed trying to fool the jury.

 

[kittythehare]

This is the part I struggle with, and I think was missing from the reconstruction. What angle would the vehicle have to hit him on, to throw him so far clear of the verge - yet he also has to hit the verge with his head to suffer the head injury - and then bounce to his final location? Or did he walk/crawl the last part

Maybe this is possible but surely it has to be mapped out and shown that the physics works?

The physics didn't pan out.. neither did the chemistry and the anatomy and physiology failed utterly also.

 

[IDK]

If Karen had hit him with her vehicle, he would have been in the roadway, not 30’ away on the grass, with his phone under him and glass beside him. I initially believed he was scooped up by the snow plow and pushed up on the lawn. But the experts say that’s impossible. MOO

I was referring to comments I’ve read that it was suspicious some people were concerned about driving at the beginning of the snowstorm. I don’t find that suspicious, personally, due to the factors listed above.

 

[Forest_Wood]

I was referring to comments I’ve read that it was suspicious some people were concerned about driving at the beginning of the snowstorm. I don’t find that suspicious, personally, due to the factors listed above.

Yes although we’ve only heard of the possibility of one collision with Karen’s car. Did the slippery roads affect anyone else?

 

[minazoe]

I was looking at some other theories and I think this whole thing went down in the basement of the house..he hit his head on the weightlifting equipment during a dog attack...his injuries tell the story. they cleaned up the basement, replaced the flooring, got rid of the dog ( who had a history of aggression and attacks) and promptly sold the house.

so maybe they weren't looking to frame Karen per say but that's how it spelled out once they could hit on her tail light as
evidence something occurred when actually she busted it in a parking lot.

Karen is a drunk driver and the whole thing is a drunken mess...a touchy dog around drunk people is a bad mix.

someone theorized they moved his body through the garage and put him in the car and placed him there in hopes
it looks like he got hit by a plow or whatever.

I agree with this synopsis. I think what I see in Karen is that she is sick of her life being ruined and is incredulous and
looks smug and is maybe even acting out a bit under all the stress. I think this is why she is becoming kind of polarizing
and unlikable .

and if she did this then it was a really stupid out of control thing to do, probably not with intention to kill but still a drunken vehicular homicide. but if she did this why can't they show me how she did it? show me where she hit him, where he hit his head, where he got puncture wounds on his arms and what was found inside those wounds, show me a model of the accident that occurred. if not then, how do we know this accident occurred? and then prove to me that she even knew she hit him...prove it.

mOO

 

[jepop]

My biggest takeaway from his interview was he doesn’t care about the evidence, Karen did it and she didn’t act the way they wanted after and she did it, and she did it.

The family has been through an unimaginable amount of trauma it’s hard to blame them for their convictions, but I’ll just have to respectfully disagree with his opinion that Karen hit him with a car, I don’t think he was even hit by any car

I feel they are following what the autorities tell them, in this case the CW and lally and the DA's office. PO is angry and he wants and needs to pin accountability on someone and the cw is aiding and abetting him. Although we can all say PO should by now be seeing the light of day, when you are in his situ with his need to find someone accountable and the cw telling him he is right I cannot blame him. I blame the cw. Jmo

 

[kittythehare]

I was looking at some other theories and I think this whole thing went down in the basement of the house..he hit his head on the weightlifting equipment during a dog attack...his injuries tell the story. they cleaned up the basement, replaced the flooring, got rid of the dog ( who had a history of aggression and attacks) and promptly sold the house.

so maybe they weren't looking to frame Karen per say but that's how it spelled out once they could hit on her tail light as
evidence something occurred when actually she busted it in a parking lot.

Karen is a drunk driver and the whole thing is a drunken mess...a touchy dog around drunk people is a bad mix.

someone theorized they moved his body through the garage and put him in the car and placed him there in hopes
it looks like he got hit by a plow or whatever.

I agree with this synopsis. I think what I see in Karen is that she is sick of her life being ruined and is incredulous and
looks smug and is maybe even acting out a bit under all the stress. I think this is why she is becoming kind of polarizing
and unlikable .

and if she did this then it was a really stupid out of control thing to do, probably not with intention to kill but still a drunken vehicular homicide. but if she did this why can't they show me how she did it? show me where she hit him, where he hit his head, where he got puncture wounds on his arms and what was found inside those wounds, show me a model of the accident that occurred. if not then, how do we know this accident occurred? and then prove to me that she even knew she hit him...prove it.

mOO

I think she's putting a massive effort into those smiles she flashes. I think they're costing her a lot.

 

[jepop]

If you take out all the outside of the courtroom influences, you still have a CW that didn't prove their case. Is a guilty verdict worth all the corruption needed to achieve it? Just because their relationship was probably at its end doesn't make her guilty of this crime. Just because she left these voicemails doesn't mean she's guilty of this crime. The relationship turbulence gives you background/possible motive but it is not proof or evidence of a crime. Many husbands kill there wives once they serve the husband with divorce papers. The divorce papers are background/possible motive into what was happening not by any means evidence. She did have the trifecta, but none of the evidence supported the trifecta. I get that he is close to what happened, and family just wants justice sometimes not caring how they get the justice. I guarantee if the investigators claimed something totally different he would believe that happened. I don't fault him and feel bad that this family has suffered a lot of loss in the last 8 years. I pray for them and those kids who have lost 3 parents so to speak. JMO

Totally agree with this.

 

[TTF14]

so is everyone thinking that he was killed after the guests who didn't see a body arrived? so this is the theory that it happened in the house? so why believe the party arrivers who didn't see him on the lawn? surely they knew if something happened in the house? so omigod this case is a Rubik's cube.

Weren't the guests who didn't see a body leaving, not arriving? Weren't they already there when the drunk "adults" arrived? I could see them being completely unaware of what was going down/had just gone down in the basement, if that's where JOK was beaten and died. Especially if they had music on or a lot of talking was happening/voices raised/laughing...

Was there any kind of rush to get them to leave, I wonder?

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

I was actually shocked the defense didn't motion for a mistrial the minute it was realized the video was inverted, shown to the jury and the witness (who knows the layout of the sally port) testified it was an accurate depiction.

Does the defense have to ask for the mistrial openly or could they have done it at the sidebar? And if they did do it at sidebar, what possible reasoning could the judge have had to deny it?

The whole thing was just mind-blowing, esp. given the defense's theory that she was being set up, this looked like proof positive of that, it could in no way have been accidental as Bukhenic knows exactly what the sally port looks like and he and Lally got caught red-handed trying to fool the jury.

I don't think they really wanted a mistrial, though. They really expected a NG verdict and definitely wanted to get their experts' testimony in front of the jury.

IMO MOO

 

[jepop]

You are correct it was Tully ! Apologies and thank you for the correction

No need to apologise. So many details and whose to remember them all! I think the main point is that there was an understanding of Rank in the investigative unit and people higher up than Proctor were recipients of his texts. And apparently one of them gave him a gentle slap on the wrist about it but sweet fa more if one was to even chose to believe that part of Tully's testimony. jmo

 

[TTF14]

I was looking at some other theories and I think this whole thing went down in the basement of the house..he hit his head on the weightlifting equipment during a dog attack...his injuries tell the story. they cleaned up the basement, replaced the flooring, got rid of the dog ( who had a history of aggression and attacks) and promptly sold the house.

so maybe they weren't looking to frame Karen per say but that's how it spelled out once they could hit on her tail light as
evidence something occurred when actually she busted it in a parking lot.

Karen is a drunk driver and the whole thing is a drunken mess...a touchy dog around drunk people is a bad mix.

someone theorized they moved his body through the garage and put him in the car and placed him there in hopes
it looks like he got hit by a plow or whatever.

I agree with this synopsis. I think what I see in Karen is that she is sick of her life being ruined and is incredulous and
looks smug and is maybe even acting out a bit under all the stress. I think this is why she is becoming kind of polarizing
and unlikable .

and if she did this then it was a really stupid out of control thing to do, probably not with intention to kill but still a drunken vehicular homicide. but if she did this why can't they show me how she did it? show me where she hit him, where he hit his head, where he got puncture wounds on his arms and what was found inside those wounds, show me a model of the accident that occurred. if not then, how do we know this accident occurred? and then prove to me that she even knew she hit him...prove it.

mOO

To me, it's way more likely all these people were trying to protect a human (or humans) from being prosecuted for killing a cop, rather than covering up for a dog. I think the dog jumped into the fray, but didn't start it. If he'd only been attacked by Chloe, I think (I sure hope) that they would have called 911. This was more serious than that, IMO. A lot of people's futures were at stake.

IMO MOO

 

[IDK]

I agree. It didn’t seem he and JO’K were close. And even though he described his brother in a few words, like loyal and a good guy etc, I came away from his interview still not getting a deep sense for who his brother truly was. Maybe it’s because POK’s words are saying one thing but with very little emotion except for blame and anger. I didn’t find he had an emotional connection w his brother IMO. He also said they know what happened but they don’t know really. MOO

No emotional connection with his brother? IMO, that’s pretty hard to judge based on a few words spoken to the media after an emotional roller coaster like a trial.

Many men have trouble expressing emotions— nothing new there. He does not have the benefit of a high power attorney and local blogger to speak for him and create sound bites that the public would find “acceptable”.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Afai aware, at 12.30am, the snow fall hadn't started? I know BH claimed he plowed the driveay when he arrived from the Waterfall. However several posters have pondered on that since there likely wouldn't have been much,if anything, as Lally might say, to plow away. I could be mistaken. Jmo

That's a really good point. People testified that it had only just begun snowing around midnight (approx) so if he arrived at 12:10 like he testified to, there wouldn't have been any snow to plow from the driveway. Only a slight dusting.
MOO.

 

[Forest_Wood]

No emotional connection with his brother? IMO, that’s pretty hard to judge based on a few words spoken to the media after an emotional roller coaster like a trial.

Many men have trouble expressing emotions— nothing new there. He does not have the benefit of a high power attorney and local blogger to speak for him and create sound bites that the public would find “acceptable”.

Just my opinion based on observing his responses. Maybe he's just numb. Contrasted to his anger/resentment/smirking/if looks could kill in court, the lack of emotion in the interview stood out to me. My opinion only.

 

[thref23]

This is the part I struggle with, and I think was missing from the reconstruction. What angle would the vehicle have to hit him on, to throw him so far clear of the verge - yet he also has to hit the verge with his head to suffer the head injury - and then bounce to his final location? Or did he walk/crawl the last part

Maybe this is possible but surely it has to be mapped out and shown that the physics works?

Why does he need to hit his head on the verge? My assumption would be that he was propelled in the air, and then hit his head on the cold hard ground (or something on top of it).

We know that Karen slammed on her accelerator and that her vehicle accelerated to 24mph in reverse. But for all we know, at least for all I know, it seems possible to me that she initially hit him at a very low speed - and then slammed the accelerator (maybe because she was startled and her foot had already been on the accelerator).

I am not an accident reconstructionist, but I feel like that kind of scenario could help explain a lack of evidence indicating a particularly violent initial strike, while still explaining how he could have been violently propelled in the air; he would have already been more or less attached to her vehicle when it sped up.

 

[Wishbone]

Why does he need to hit his head on the verge? My assumption would be that he was propelled in the air, and then hit his head on the cold hard ground (or something on top of it).

We know that Karen slammed on her accelerator and that her vehicle accelerated to 24mph in reverse. But for all we know, at least for all I know, it seems possible to me that she initially hit him at a very low speed - and then slammed the accelerator (maybe because she was startled and her foot had already been on the accelerator).

I am not an accident reconstructionist, but I feel like that kind of scenario could help explain a lack of evidence indicating a particularly violent initial strike, while still explaining how he could have been violently propelled in the air; he would have already been more or less attached to her vehicle when it sped up.

A violent initial strike then violently propelled in the air without receiving any bruises or broken bones or any injuries below the neck.......

 

[jepop]

so maybe they weren't looking to frame Karen per say but that's how it spelled out once they could hit on her tail light as
evidence something occurred when actually she busted it in a parking lot.

RBBM Missing Canton Library footage that would have shown KR passing after 12.30am on her way to JO's (connecting with Wifi at 12.36am). Could KR have pulled over in the vicinity of that camera's scope for a minute, a quick unanswered call to JO (one of the 53) then reversing to drive on hit a lamp pole or something. IIRC the testimony from Canton Libary guy was that he handed the footage over to LE (read Proctor) without himself ever reviewing the footage. I posted about this speculation on earlier thread. It's just a thought and just a speculation. I can't recall when it was that Proctor was first given that footage and if it was before or after tail light pieces began being uncovered at 34 Fairview beginning in February 2022. Moo