MISTRIAL MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #16

[kae27]

KR will plead for invol manslaughter and DUI.

You could be right, since we're just speculating, but I see zero chance of this. DUI would be possible, but no shot at manslaughter.

 

[ch_13]

OK she’s super self absorbed…..

I don't see any evidence that she was ever "super self-absorbed", however you define that. Before John's death, his friends and family seemed to like her well enough, so this stuff about her personality all seems to come post-arrest. Certainly, her acting as a caretaker of John's kids would not be the actions of someone who was only concerned with herself.

I really don't get this need to tear her down as a person. It doesn't matter a bit whether she's an ice-queen or conceited or "self-absorbed". For heaven's sake, earlier in this thread someone was complaining about the food she ate.

What should matter is whether or not she's committed the crimes she's accused of and if the commonwealth can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. They certainly didn't in their first try. We'll see what happens if they ever get another bite at the apple. Personally, I don't think they'll have much luck.

 

[MyJoey]

Link, please.

There’s Kerry Testimony

 

[kae27]

There’s Kerry Testimony

This does not show what you alleged.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

IIRC correctly Trooper Paul testified that JOK’s arm was hit by KR’a car causing him to spin and hit his head on the curve before flying in the air and landing in the spot he was found hours later several feet away. One of the questions I have from his testimony is where was JOK’s hat found? I would imagine it would be by the curve after falling off following the unfortunate strike to his head. I also wonder why his phone wasn’t found closer to the curve or didn’t slip out out his pants pocket close to it when his body did close to a 180 or 270 degree spin leading to the strike against his head?

IMO despite the small discrepancy regarding KR seeing JOK at the door, her statement still seems to align with RN and Hannah who testified that KR was alone in her car and appeared calm and on her phone when they passed in her vehicle. They did not testify to seeing JOK in the vehicle or in the vicinity outside of it which leads me to believe he was already in the house or perhaps somewhere on the property that was not visible from their vantage point, like behind the fence to the house’s left where there is another entrance into the house via the back door.

I also think it possible that KR’s memory of that night and when she last seen JOK only came back perhaps several hours or days later when she was sober or detoxed and the alcohol was no longer impairing her memory. That might explain the difference between her statements on the 29th when she was so panicked and unable to recall when and where she had last seen JOK vs months or years later when she is able to recall more information and provide more details during the aforementioned interviews.

Also, I understand that the combination of alcohol and maintained focus on roads during dangerous weather conditions may cause people to miss things in their immediate environment but considering the curve around the home on Fairview, the tail light pieces that were supposedly found near JOK and that could potentially reflect light, BH allegedly leaving around 12:30-1 AM and BH’s car supposedly parked in front of the home near the mailbox I do wonder how BH was able to miss JOK’s prone bleeding form on the lawn considering the curve would have helped the lights on his truck shine in JOK’s direction, one of JOK’s black sneakers was found on the street several feet in front of BH’s car, there wasn’t that much snow on the ground yet and again the tail lights pieces and even JOK’s sneakers may have stuck out against the ground and with the truck’s light shining on them. JMO or questions

 

[CourtandSims4]

I see a lot of people keep citing the experts and expressing disbelief that, despite their testimony, there were still 8 people (or 4?) who would have found her guilty of at least one charge, despite the expert testimony.

I asked earlier on Twitter if we could talk about how the word "expert" doesn't carry the same weight that it used to. I also pondered if, perhaps, the C19 pandemic played a part in that. We watched as experts in fields of science, certified virologists and doctors, clashed over all things related to the pandemic, to the point where the public was largely confused about who or what to trust.

I think in trial watching, we have also seen many instances where experts gave conflicting testimony, and we are left to decide which sides experts were more convincing.

What does being an "expert" even mean anymore? A lot of people think that if the jurors would have known the defense experts were hired by the FBI, they would have absolutely found Karen Read NG on all counts. I am not so sure that is the truth.

Experts are still people with varying motivations when it comes to what they say. And those motivations are not always as clear cut as we all expect it to be when an expert weighs in on something. The public is now ACUTELY aware of that, so are experts seen as trustworthy as they once were?

 

[HarmonyE.]

SBM. Please provide a link to this testimony. Since you said "testified," I'd like to see the actual testimony to this.

Day 29, cross by Eliza Little. The ME admitted the bruises on John's fists were possibly defensive wounds. She admitted his skull fracture would have caused by falling backwards after a punch.

She never testified on direct or cross that John had to have been hit by a vehicle. But then again, she couldn't speak to mechanism with any certainty as she is not a biomechanical expert.

 

[CourtandSims4]

Also...

Most trial watchers had a negative reaction to Trooper Paul's performance on the stand, but it is clear that at least some of the jurors felt his testimony was valid.

Alan Jackson is like a sledgehammer on cross, what if that actually worked to make Trooper Paul more of a sympathetic character? What if they felt AJ was twisting his words, for instance, when he mentions John O'Keefe "pirouetting" or when he gave Trooper Paul an impromptu pop quiz, putting him on the spot? Played great to the public who supports KR, but how about to the jury?

Just some things to consider. I am still "officially" on record saying that I would have voted KR Not Guilty, based on the case the jury was presented. These are just some things that I have been considering over the last week.

 

[kae27]

Day 29, cross by Eliza Little. The ME admitted the bruises on John's fists were possibly defensive wounds. She admitted his skull fracture would have caused by falling backwards after a punch.

She never testified on direct or cross that John had to have been hit by a vehicle. But then again, she couldn't speak to mechanism with any certainty as she is not a biomechanical expert.

Well, exactly. She did NOT say this couldn't have been caused by a fight.

I'm still awaiting actual ME testimony saying that.

 

[HarmonyE.]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

Here is the cross of the ME.

 

[kittythehare]

The laws of physics, anatomy, physiology and biology remain unchanged.
Like the laws of simple common sense..
Standing the test of time.

 

[Universecalling]

I would imagine his wounds were cleaned when he arrived at the hospital. DNA should have been found on his clothing, if it was there.

Do you ever wonder about multi DNA profiles found on his clothes and shoes?
Or lack of blood DNA on the “murder” weapon? Or any of the pieces of light?
Or that glass pieces on bumper aren’t from the cocktail glass, but rather from some glass proctor found weeks later?
Or the fact that out of all bloody snow in cups only one cup was tested? What if it had another person’s blood droppings, idk… from a fight?
There were three or four different DNA found on his pants. Did they obtain BA’s, Collin’s or Higgins DNA to exclude them?
Would you be ok with any part of this investigation if it were you or your family being accused?

 

[PamCake]

I wonder if the whole "changing the form" thing (which some jurors reportedly looked perplexed about when she told them about it) made some of them switch over to "guilty" instead of "not guilty" for manslaughter...like they thought "we must be missing something since they changed the form....better vote guilty...."

JMO

I was thinking the same thing. The form was worded in a confusing way. And I hate to say it, but I think the changes the defense requested may have made it more so.

 

[MyJoey]

Do you ever wonder about multi DNA profiles found on his clothes and shoes?
Or lack of blood DNA on the “murder” weapon? Or any of the pieces of light?
Or that glass pieces on bumper aren’t from the cocktail glass, but rather from some glass proctor found weeks later?
Or the fact that out of all bloody snow in cups only one cup was tested? What if it had another person’s blood droppings, idk… from a fight?
There were three or four different DNA found on his pants. Did they obtain BA’s, Collin’s or Higgins DNA to exclude them?
Would you be ok with any part of this investigation if it were you or your family being accused?

Thought we were talking about dog DNA, since most dogs slobber I’m pretty sure some would be found on the clothing if it was there. He was hanging with all them people I wouldn’t be surprised if John had their DNA on him. (Not blood)
Yup all that stuff….also there were tail light pieces around his body and in his clothing.
Would you be OK letting a person off that ran down your family member?
I understand it was a horrible investigation, I do. However strong evidence survives.

 

[k-mac]

There is NO way she is going to plead guilty after all the work she put in with Turtleboy and tossed all these people under the bus. She’s a narcissist and all the moneys she’s payed out, can’t see it happening. Plus she’s enjoying the spot light. Just my opinion

I dunno Joey.
That was a close call.
She will not be so lucky next time.

moo

 

[TTF14]

Thought we were talking about dog DNA, since most dogs slobber I’m pretty sure some would be found on the clothing if it was there. He was hanging with all them people I wouldn’t be surprised if John had their DNA on him. (Not blood)
Yup all that stuff….also there were tail light pieces around his body and in his clothing.
Would you be OK letting a person off that ran down your family member?
I understand it was a horrible investigation, I do. However strong evidence survives.

Was not a large portion, it not all, of the taillight evidence debunked?

 

[Aquarian]

Did you see the testimony of the FBI experts who very confidently concluded - using math, science, and physics - that John was not hit by a car? I think you can find the trial on YouTube.

If he wasn't hit by a car, he was killed in the house and dumped on the lawn. Very straightforward.

Well if we listen to Jackaon and Yannetti, several jurors DO believe she was hit by a car. Other than innuendo, there is no proof JOK was killed in the house by anyone or the hated Canton folk as some has described .
This has become worse than Casey Anthony, everyone needs to chill and really look at common sense.

 

[MyJoey]

I dunno Joey.
That was a close call.
She will not be so lucky next time.

moo

I love the way you think …..

 

[Odeto BJ]

Norwood, MA Weather History | Weather Underground

Norwood, MA Weather History | Weather Underground

Pages from my preferred weather data site: Wunderground.com; but history not maintained for Canton, this from the weather station in Norwood, MA about 3-1/2 miles away from the house previously owned by the Albert family.
The entire week prior to late night 1-28 was free of precipitation and temperatures were from 20 deg. to 42 deg. with most days showing temperatures above freezing for at least a few hours. Snow did not start until after 12:00 AM 1-29 and did not amount to much until after 3:00 AM 1-29; the wind picked up drastically and temperatures dropped a lot the entirety of 1-29 but the snowfall was pretty much done by 1:00 PM 1-29. Temperatures continued to drop to a low of 12-deg. that night.
IIRC, the search on the lawn started around 4:00 and continued until after 6:00 1-29. Winds during that interval were 20-mph give or take, must have been fun using a leaf blower under those conditions.

 

[MyJoey]

Was not a large portion, it not all, of the taillight evidence debunked?

Not in my mind.