MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #2

[thref23]

Was KR aware of JOK wanting to break up with her or is it something he was telling others? Also does KR have history of domestic violence or rages? That would be very important to know IMO.
If JOk was just telling others he wanted a break up, then I'd want to see something written or recorded so we'd know it was fact and not something made up. I read that the relationship may have been tumultuous but there are many relationships like that that doesn't come to murder. That's why a history of stalking or DV or rages would be important.

This is the Commonwealth's Statement of Case.

According to JOK's niece, about a week before his death, JOK had told KR that their relationship had "run its course," and had asked her to leave the house...but she said she did not want the relationship to end and refused to leave the house. His nephew recalled something similar.

Obviously, read thru the PDF for more detail.

 

[Charlot123]

The glass underneath him (allegedly) has undoubtedly been one of the primary sticking points for me, particularly if found underneath with his phone also and if forensic testing of the phone does indicate no movement from the time of drop off at the house on. Awaiting that phone evidence.

That said, given the level of non-investigation of more than one scenario, who can say the only two possible scenarios are hit by vehicle outside or beaten to death inside. Could he not have been attacked physically outside?

I am thinking of the worse case scenario: what if no one truly knows what happened? KR: I hope I am not offending her by stating she was drunk. She drives home in the blizzard, maybe hits a skunk or a squirrel on her way, feels a bump, comes home, adds more alcohol, falls asleep. Blacks out. Wakes up, in a confused state, JO is not there, she remembers the bump and thinks, what if I ran over him? Starts hysterically calling (not a murderer’s behavior). In the meantime, I doubt that people in BA’s house lured JO in. I doubt that they were watching the window. They were drinking and maybe, in the middle of the night, someone finds bloodied JO next to the house. They, too, are unsure who did it, but they saw the kids living around the same time, so they assume these were the kids. They leave him outside - either they are too drunk to move, or maybe, the longer, the harder it is to find out what really happened. Everyone might be protecting someone, not quite knowing whom, but suspecting the worst. IRL, maybe one person knows how it happened. If it was KR, she could have hit him on the head with something in the car (a hammer to break a glass?) when he was getting out, pushed and left, not planning to kill at all. If it was someone who met him outside, they could’ve hit him and left. In-house is less likely. But it might be the situation when everyone assumes the worst, and very few really are aware.

 

[thebedbug]

Foyer only

You're probably aware they police couldn't just do a full CSI search of the house or start walking around exploring... right? As mentioned in the trial - they didn't even have to be let into the house.

I feel like people just aren't watching the trial and are making up their own version of events.

 

[floridafreshsqueez]

Why do they leaf blow snow in Iowa?

My mind is still blown that a Canton cop went home (!) to get his personal leaf blower and then they went to a neighbor to borrow some Solo cups to collect evidence. And don't get me started on the way the evidence was handled back at the PD.

We haven't even seen the real Keystone cops yet. Fireworks will start for real when Proctor finally gets on the stand.

Read may not have needed her high priced attorneys after all. An average public defender could probably win this on reasonable doubt based on evidence handling alone.

I 100% agree.

And you know what? I’m sick of this “we’re a small town, we don’t do this every day” bs. Canton is 30 mins away from Boston. This is not some sleepy desert town with a singular jail cell and one gas station. GMAB.

I was just as flabbergasted as EDB during yesterday’s stream when the red solo cups were shown. I yelled at my tv too

The incompetence is so breathtaking that one has to start positing that this had to have been on purpose. These cops have worked thousands of crime scenes by now, homicide or not…they have decades of experience collectively but they don’t think to go a mile down the road for evidence bags, containers and tubes?? And regarding the snow fall…could they not have used a fine-haired forensic brush to uncover the crime scene evidence?

 

[Charlot123]

Was KR aware of JOK wanting to break up with her or is it something he was telling others? Also does KR have history of domestic violence or rages? That would be very important to know IMO.
If JOk was just telling others he wanted a break up, then I'd want to see something written or recorded so we'd know it was fact and not something made up. I read that the relationship may have been tumultuous but there are many relationships like that that doesn't come to murder. That's why a history of stalking or DV or rages would be important.

I would like to know if she had a history of failed relationships when other men were dropping her despite the fact that she seemingly had it all, smarts, looks, independence. Then it may be her last attempt to not be alone, and when this guy drops her, everything breaks loose. I suspect this is how the world looked like to her, but was it enough of the reason? Although I suspect she didn’t plan it.

 

[Mauig’ma]

Why do they leaf blow snow in Iowa?

My mind is still blown that a Canton cop went home (!) to get his personal leaf blower and then they went to a neighbor to borrow some Solo cups to collect evidence. And don't get me started on the way the evidence was handled back at the PD.

We haven't even seen the real Keystone cops yet. Fireworks will start for real when Proctor finally gets on the stand.

Read may not have needed her high priced attorneys after all. An average public defender could probably win this on reasonable doubt based on evidence handling alone.

It’s easier imo

 

[HarmonyE.]

You're probably aware they police couldn't just do a full CSI search of the house or start walking around exploring... right? As mentioned in the trial - they didn't even have to be let into the house.

I feel like people just aren't watching the trial and are making up their own version of events.

They could have ASKED to look around and they did not. As one of the officers testified today he decided to take Jen McCabe at her word. I don't think they'd take me or you at our word. Dead body on the friggin' lawn? Looks like he might have been beaten? Can't bother Brian Albert! He just woke up, after all.

I can't fathom how someone who watched the trial today can come away not seeing how incredibly bad the initial investigation was.

 

[HarmonyE.]

It’s easier imo

Oh, you mean a leaf blowing a dusting? This was a heavy snow storm with high winds and was underway in earnest by the times the cops arrived.

 

[LvsAMystry]

You're probably aware they police couldn't just do a full CSI search of the house or start walking around exploring... right? As mentioned in the trial - they didn't even have to be let into the house.

I feel like people just aren't watching the trial and are making up their own version of events.

I’m aware of probable cause , yes, but I responded “foyer only” to a post that simply said they’d found nothing in the house.

 

[Weki]

I would like to know if she had a history of failed relationships when other men were dropping her despite the fact that she seemingly had it all, smarts, looks, independence. Then it may be her last attempt to not be alone, and when this guy drops her, everything breaks loose. I suspect this is how the world looked like to her, but was it enough of the reason? Although I suspect she didn’t plan it.

Her demeanor in the courtroom is bizarre to me. Puckered mouth and so much aTTitude! Both male attorneys seem wrapped around her little finger. She’s acting like co-counsel.

JMO

 

[keek]

I 100% agree.

And you know what? I’m sick of this “we’re a small town, we don’t do this every day” bs. Canton is 30 mins away from Boston. This is not some sleepy desert town with a singular jail cell and one gas station. GMAB.

I was just as flabbergasted as EDB during yesterday’s stream when the red solo cups were shown. I yelled at my tv too

The incompetence is so breathtaking that one has to start positing that this had to have been on purpose. These cops have worked thousands of crime scenes by now, homicide or not…they have decades of experience collectively but they don’t think to go a mile down the road for evidence bags, containers and tubes?? And regarding the snow fall…could they not have used a fine-haired forensic brush to uncover the crime scene evidence?

No it's not. I grew up and have family and friends in Stoughton and have seen plenty then and that was long ago when corruption was big and the whole force was let go pretty much. Canton is very able and they all know and knew better. Yes, it was in a snowstorm, it happened at a cop's/cronies, (to some of the police/responders) house. It's like they were all under a 'mass hysteria' situation due to where JO was found. How to behave, what to say, think, as if they 'froze' under all the circumstances and hearing that JO was a police officer as well. NOTHING was done the way it should of, but it seems due to whoever's lead they were following or answering to to begin with. Sheep and befuddled. So, no, they absolutely knew better. Oh, Stoughton and Canton are side by side and mingle in social settings etc. etc. etc.
It's mainly because of WHO'S house this happened, the 'confusion and IMPROPER behavior in investigating an initial finding of 'the body. All also, because Proctor knew them and vice versa. It's horrible. Wrong place, wrong time, wrong people for JO.

 

[LvsAMystry]

Her demeanor in the courtroom is bizarre to me. Puckered mouth and so much aTTitude! Both male attorneys seem wrapped around her little finger. She’s acting like co-counsel.

JMO

I haven’t made up my mind on this case yet but I’d imagine if me and I knew I was innocent and knew evidence against me was shoddy at best or manufactured at worst, well I’d have an attitude too.

As for the second part, there’s nothing wrong with any defendant to actively participate in their own defense, regardless of gender.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Her demeanor in the courtroom is bizarre to me. Puckered mouth and so much aTTitude! Both male attorneys seem wrapped around her little finger. She’s acting like co-counsel.

JMO

That's how her mouth is. Her brother has the same mouth. Nothing even remotely bizarre about her mouth or her demeanor.

And why shouldn't she be actively engaged in her own defense? Or do you expect women to keep their mouths shut and let the men handle the hard things? She's an intelligent person on trial for her life and has every right to talk to her attorneys as much as she wants.

 

[Wishbone]

I haven’t made up my mind on this case yet but I’d imagine if me and I knew I was innocent and knew evidence against me was shoddy at best or manufactured at worst, well I’d have an attitude too.

As for the second part, there’s nothing wrong with any defendant to actively participate in their own defense, regardless of gender.

well said

 

[keek]

I’m aware of probable cause , yes, but I responded “foyer only” to a post that simply said they’d found nothing in the house.

Alberts, McCabes def could of said, come in, and looks like they did not, being associates and friends as long as the whole process was so unprofessional anyway. Albert wanted nothing near him of this. Self preservation at any cost, why? They all knew each other pretty much, regardless of what the person said how she only HEARD the name of one of the woman there. That's turned out to be a perjury sitch if it makes it that far. I forget if she was a police officer but she was there and involved after the fact.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I grew up and have family and friends in Stoughton and have seen plenty then and that was long ago when corruption was big and the whole force was let go pretty much.

I'll take a little issue with "long ago". I'll always believe many more on the Stoughton force knew about the Explorer kids being passed around. Sandra Birchmore was suicided just a year before O'Keefe died. In Canton. In a snowstorm. With Sargent Lank showing up at that scene also.

 

[keek]

I am not saying who did this, I can't, who can except the killer(s), unintentional or not. There is 'bad blood' and heavyyyyyy drinking going on with 'both parties' and it was 'end of the night' of partying and arguing, potential on both sides so we obviously need factual evidence that hopefully can be provided without a shred of doubt.

 

[keek]

I'll take a little issue with "long ago". I'll always believe many more on the Stoughton force knew about the Explorer kids being passed around. Sandra Birchmore was suicided just a year before O'Keefe died. In Canton. In a snowstorm. With Sargent Lank showing up at that scene also.

The events that happened while I live there were long ago and bragged about by two cops to myself and a friend. We were in high school, they were off duty and struck up that conversation with us at a day time restaurant on a weekend. That's what I was speaking of. SB was killed and that is clear along with all the covering up and 'hiding what they knew, the sick monsters of all of it.

 

[KMouse]

Yep. For all we know they could have thrown him into the basement with a German Shepherd, but I'll never know because a police department doesn't know how to investigate something, but, oh shucks!, since they're from a small town we can certainly excuse all this and sentence someone to life in prison based on *checks notes* evidence stored in beer pong cups and chunks of a homicide investigation missing notes altogether.

JMO

So let's say you are the investigator that wants to search the basement...on that morning. You can't just walk in and do it. What is your next course of action? When you go to the judge to ask for the warrant what is in your probable cause affidavit? You have to write it up stating what you are looking for and where and why. Tell me.

 

[LvsAMystry]

So let's say you are the investigator that wants to search the basement...on that morning. You can't just walk in and do it. What is your net course of action? When you go to the judge to ask for the warrant what is in your probable cause affidavit? You have to write it up stating what you are looking for and where and why. Tell me.

Probable cause aside though, couldn’t they have just asked to have a look around? Obviously it would’ve been within the rights of the homeowners to decline but they didn’t even ask. I know if a dead person was found on my lawn and I was asked if police could have look around I wouldn’t have issue with it if I had nothing to hide. We’ll never know in this situation whether the Albert’s would’ve allowed because again they were never asked.