MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #2

[AppleTreeGreen]

This may be repetitive or unimportant so my policies but if IIRC the snow plow driver stated he did not see JO’s body on Albert’s lawn the two times he plowed their street at 2:30 AM and 3:30 AM. MOO, but I find his testimony credible or believable based on the police footage below possibly showing both how close to the fire hydrant and flag pole (where JO was found) are to edge where the road appears to have been recently plowed and how close too his plow may have come to JO’s body if he had been laying there at the time (assuming the kneeling dark figure to the bottom left is KR giving CPR to JO as indicated by the officer).

With JO potentially being at such close proximity to the road and a fire hydrant and the driver, or LL, stating he was diligent about keeping an eye out for fire hydrants and other hazards I imagine he would have spotted JO or at least with the lighting of the machine and the help of JO’s jeans and blue sleeved shirt contrasting with the snow, JO would potentially been quite visible to him.

JMO speculation and of course I could be wrong or misplaced or misinterpreted the locations of the figures of the video

4 takeaways from Karen Read trial: texts, taillight damage and first witnesses

Text messages from a lead investigator in the Karen Read murder case came under scrutiny during opening statements.

www.masslive.com

 

[keek]

This may be repetitive or unimportant so my policies but if IIRC the snow plow driver stated he did not see JO’s body on Albert’s lawn the two times he plowed their street at 2:30 AM and 3:30 AM. MOO, but I find his testimony credible or believable based on the police footage below possibly showing both how close to the fire hydrant and flag pole (where JO was found) are to edge where the road appears to have been recently plowed and how close too his plow may have come to JO’s body if he had been laying there at the time (assuming the kneeling dark figure to the bottom left is KR giving CPR to JO as indicated by the officer).

With JO potentially being at such close proximity to the road and a fire hydrant and the driver, or LL, stating he was diligent about keeping an eye out for fire hydrants and other hazards I imagine he would have spotted JO or at least with the lighting of the machine and the help of JO’s jeans and blue sleeved shirt contrasting with the snow, JO would potentially been quite visible to him.

JMO speculation and of course I could be wrong or misplaced or misinterpreted the locations of the figures of the video

4 takeaways from Karen Read trial: texts, taillight damage and first witnesses

Text messages from a lead investigator in the Karen Read murder case came under scrutiny during opening statements.

www.masslive.com

I see her car was backing up at 24 mph per this report?? So very odd that the plower did not see JO if he WAS that close and at that time that JO was supposed to be laying there.

 

[thref23]

With JO potentially being at such close proximity to the road and a fire hydrant and the driver, or LL, stating he was diligent about keeping an eye out for fire hydrants and other hazards I imagine he would have spotted JO or at least with the lighting of the machine and the help of JO’s jeans and blue sleeved shirt contrasting with the snow, JO would potentially been quite visible to him.

I believe that JO was several feet away from the roadway, anyways his jeans and shirt would not have been so visible if they were already covered in snow.

 

[thebedbug]

I haven't looked the CourtTV timeline until just now.

Can someone explain to me this bit I have bolded:

• 5:00 a.m. Julie Albert told investigators she missed a call from Jennifer McCabe at this time but that it was through the call she learned that O’Keefe was dead. She later told a grand jury she learned he was dead.
• 5:07 a.m. O’Keefe’s driveway camera shows Read’s car backing out of the driveway. Read meets Jennifer McCabe and Roberts at McCabe’s house. Roberts drives Read and Jennifer McCabe to the Albert residence.
• 6:00 a.m. Read, Jennifer McCabe and Roberts arrive at the Albert residence.
• 6:04 a.m. Read calls 911. Canton Police Officers Saraf and Mullaney arrive within minutes, followed by emergency services.

JA misses a call from JM telling her O'keefe is dead? At 5am?

I stand corrected, @themonk - From the interview with Chris and Julie Albert on Feb 10, 2022: "Julie told us that she was asleep at 4:55am on January 29th, 2022 when her phone woke her up and it was Jen's missed call, and that is how she found out about John dying. When asked, both Julie and Chris told us John did not have any injuries to his face during the evening at the Waterfall, to include tears and rips on his clothing."

This is very different than her testimony today. Even the time of the call is off by an hour.

the CourtTV timeline is a mess. they are pulling what you bolded from a police report that is written awkwardly and doesn't make a lot of sense. of course - she could not have learned about someone's death from a call she didn't take and slept through.

Today she testified she woke up at about 8am looked at her phone and saw she'd missed a call... she thought maybe the missed call was at 5:55... no text message... but earlier in the morning. She made it to 34 Fairview and learned about the incident after 8:30 AM.

Whether or not she's off by an hour today or the officer wrote the wrong time... whatever time a missed call happened is easily verifiable with phone records.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

I see her car was backing up at 24 mph per this report?? So very odd that the plower did not see JO if he WAS that close and at that time that JO was supposed to be laying there.

Based on the article I read below, I think it is possible that perhaps the defense would argue or speculate that if JO was not seen by the plow driver at those times it was because he was possibly still alive and inside the Albert’s home instead. It appears from their statements that they believe that the plow driver’s testimony could help exonerate KR or at least be used to further prove her innocence and advance their theory that a third party is responsible for harming JO and unjustly taking his life.

Karen Read’s trial starts next week. This is some of the most contentious evidence in her case.

Some pieces of evidence in Karen Read's case have faced more scrutiny than others in the lead-up to her high-profile murder trial.

www.boston.com

 

[HarmonyE.]

I believe that JO was several feet away from the roadway, anyways his jeans and shirt would not have been so visible if they were already covered in snow.

They wouldn't have been. Not at 2:30.

Lucky also wouldn't have been able to see a body when he went by the second time because he says there was a Ford Edge parked on the road right in front of where John's body was later found.

 

[thref23]

They wouldn't have been. Not at 2:30.

Are we sure about this?

My understanding is that, when JO was dropped off, it was snowing but there was very little snow on the ground.

At the time the plower plowed, there was enough snow accumulated on the ground to warrant plowing.

Several hours later, per the Statement of Case, Jen McCabe had estimated that JO had been covered with about six inches of snow when he was found, with little or no snow underneath him.

 

[louvillian08]

the CourtTV timeline is a mess. they are pulling what you bolded from a police report that is written awkwardly and doesn't make a lot of sense. of course - she could not have learned about someone's death from a call she didn't take and slept through.

Today she testified she woke up at about 8am looked at her phone and saw she'd missed a call... she thought maybe the missed call was at 5:55... no text message... but earlier in the morning. She made it to 34 Fairview and learned about the incident after 8:30 AM.

Whether or not she's off by an hour today or the officer wrote the wrong time... whatever time a missed call happened is easily verifiable with phone records.

She didn’t sleep through it. She says that in the interview with the police: an incoming call at 4:55am woke her up

 

[themonk]

Eh, looks straightforward to me

Edit: maybe she missed the call but got a voicemail alert that woke her?

Edit again: How exactly does the prosecution explain this away?

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

View attachment 502567
Eh, looks straightforward to me

Edit: maybe she missed the call but got a voicemail alert that woke her?

Edit again: How exactly does the prosecution explain this away?

Maybe she missed the call and then called her back? I don't see why that wouldn't be explicitly stated though.

 

[AppleTreeGreen]

I believe that JO was several feet away from the roadway, anyways his jeans and shirt would not have been so visible if they were already covered in snow.

Edit: I could be wrong but from I understood from the CNN article below and the video shown in court I thought JO was found much nearer to the road or at 10-12 feet away from the roadway and near to the fire hydrant and flag pole. From the distance depicted and LL stating he used his biggest snow plow it seems plausible that perhaps the lights on his machine may have been able to reach at least some portion of JO’s person.

Edit: Another witness also stated that they thought they could see a dark object in the snow near the area KR’s car was parked as they left the Albert home sometime between 1:30 AM and 2 AM. I am just speculating but perhaps with better lighting available LL would have been better able to see if anything or anyone was indeed there?

How the death of police officer John O’Keefe divided a Boston suburb | CNN

The battered body of police officer John O’Keefe was found in a snowy suburban Boston yard in January 2022. Prosecutors believe he was left for dead after being struck by an SUV driven by his girlfriend, Karen Read. Her attorneys argue she’s being framed to protect the real killers.

amp.cnn.com

‘We know who did it’: Woman charged in death of Boston officer speaks out after setback in court

A Massachusetts judge dealt a blow Wednesday to a woman’s efforts for more evidence and subpoenas as she fights a second-degree murder charge in a Boston cop’s death.

www.yahoo.com

 

[louvillian08]

View attachment 502567
Eh, looks straightforward to me

Edit: maybe she missed the call but got a voicemail alert that woke her?

Edit again: How exactly does the prosecution explain this away?

I don’t know that I’ve ever seen this addressed before in any coverage of the case of or even on discussion forums/social media… which is quite shocking.

Maybe there’s a very innocent explanation for it and that’s why but I’ve yet to see it. based on McCabe’s phone records, the 4:55am time would be the correct one.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

the CourtTV timeline is a mess. they are pulling what you bolded from a police report that is written awkwardly and doesn't make a lot of sense. of course - she could not have learned about someone's death from a call she didn't take and slept through.

Today she testified she woke up at about 8am looked at her phone and saw she'd missed a call... she thought maybe the missed call was at 5:55... no text message... but earlier in the morning. She made it to 34 Fairview and learned about the incident after 8:30 AM.

Whether or not she's off by an hour today or the officer wrote the wrong time... whatever time a missed call happened is easily verifiable with phone records.

I took it to mean that she woke up, saw a missed call, listened to a VM, and learned of the death. But the entire case is all messed up so who knows... moo

 

[HarmonyE.]

Are we sure about this?

My understanding is that, when JO was dropped off, it was snowing but there was very little snow on the ground.

At the time the plower plowed, there was enough snow accumulated on the ground to warrant plowing.

Several hours later, per the Statement of Case, Jen McCabe had estimated that JO had been covered with about six inches of snow when he was found, with little or no snow underneath him.

I'm personally sure of it as I was watching the storm that night from about three miles away. I had somewhere I was supposed to be that morning, and I recall clearly the lack of accumlation at around 5:30 am. There was very little snow on the ground, although we ended up with 2.5 feet by that night.

Lucky wasn't initially plowing. He was prepping the road for the storm and 2:30 am was the first pass.

The range of snow on John's body according to first responders is from a "dusting" to several inches and they arrived from roughly 6:15 forward. There was also a lot of wind and blowing by then. But the important testimony here will be Lucky's and he's been consistent and insistent in his statements that he would have seen a body at that location at 2:30 am and on the second pass a Ford Edge was parked on the road. Despite the fact that all vehicles must be off the road in the winter by 1 am.

 

[thebedbug]

View attachment 502567
Eh, looks straightforward to me

Edit: maybe she missed the call but got a voicemail alert that woke her?

Edit again: How exactly does the prosecution explain this away?

The call did not wake her up. There was no text and no voicemail. That is her testimony. She did not speak to anyone about O'Keefe or Read until she arrived at 34 Fairview after 8:30 AM.

 

[louvillian08]

The call did not wake her up. There was no text and no voicemail. That is her testimony. She did not speak to anyone about O'Keefe or Read until she arrived at 34 Fairview after 8:30 AM.

Her statement to police said that a call at 4:55am (confirmed by phone records) woke her up. We are discussing the inaccuracies between her statement and her testimony, you can’t just ignore the statement lol.

 

[themonk]

The call did not wake her up. There was no text and no voicemail. That is her testimony. She did not speak to anyone about O'Keefe or Read until she arrived at 34 Fairview after 8:30 AM.

oh, weird. i guess the cop just sort of improvised in his report.

cool cool

 

[thref23]

Another witness also stated that they thought they could see a dark shape on the lawn near the area KR’s car was parked as they left the Albert home sometime between 2 AM and 4 AM. I am just speculating but perhaps with better lighting available LL would have been better able to see if anything or anyone was indeed there?

I think you are right that LL probably would have had better lighting. I'm not sure who would have had a better angle. I don't think we can draw any conclusions from LL's testimony as is, but I think it can be twisted to support the prosecution at least as easily as it can be twisted to support the defense. It would not have required a lot of snowfall in order for JO's clothing to blend in somewhat with his surroundings.

 

[HarmonyE.]

Just want to say something about the lighting outside. It's frequently said there were no street lights, but this isn't true. There is a large, highway style street lamp to the the right of the Albert driveway as you look at the house and last time I was there at night it was on.

 

[thebedbug]

Her statement to police said that a call at 4:55am (confirmed by phone records) woke her up. We are discussing the inaccuracies between her statement and her testimony, you can’t just ignore the statement lol.

Whatever the phone records say is what happened... were they introduced into evidence? I missed some parts. RE: time of the call - She clearly said "maybe" in her testimony, today... indicating she didn't remember the exact time of the recorded missed call.

What you are referencing is not a statement from her. It is a summary written by the officer (very clearly stated in the document) of information exchanged in an interview.