MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #9

[Slick762]

The police are claiming they don't believe Lucky because he's stupid and color blind (like being color blind is even remotely relevant here. John was in neutral clothes and a parked SUV is a parked SUV).

If he comes across well, there's zero chance of conviction, IMHO. Yannetti visited with him the other day and seemed very happy about their talk.

They said he changed his story, so he wasn't credible. That didn't seem to stop them from trusting Higgins and other peoples stories.

 

[rebelchild]

I don't think Karen even remembered dropping him off at the Alberts. Her last clear memory seemed to be being at the Waterfall, so she drove by there. As others have said, having gaps in one's memory is pretty common after getting drunk.

Only when she spoke with Jen McCabe was she reminded about the drop-off. So that's why Jen, Kerry and Karen all went there.

Or maybe she didn't know that Jen or Kerry seen them get in her car at the Waterfall and thought she could pass off the idea that she left him there. Maybe she didn't think anyone seen her pull up at Fairview. Just thinking out loud.

 

[bobbymkii]

Something that occurred to me recently, maybe "Lucky" Loughran is even more lucky than the name of his snowplow suggests. If Karen hadn't cracked her taillight he would probably be the person the McAlberts were trying to frame for the murder?

That if it was actually them that beat john to death they placed him on the edge of the lawn to look like he'd been hit by a snowplow, but then KR turns up in hysterics with a cracked taillight and JM instinctively plants the idea that maybe it could have been her that hit him with her car?

JMO

 

[Slick762]

I came into this trial late, think that KR was lying her *advertiser censored* off and she drunkenly hit JO.
From what I've seen, I think someone, or someone's, (primarily Higgins but maybe also Albert) beat the crap out of JO in the yard and walked away, either not caring or not knowing how badly he was hurt and that's how he ended up dying in the snow. And Proctor was just slimy or thinblueline enough to take them at their word and not look in the house or interview anyone else present on the day it happened.
It would explain the 'buttdials' and destroyed phones. NOBODY goes out of their way to a mil base just to drop a destroyed sim card and cell in a dumpster (which makes it significantly harder and take longer to look for because it's fed jurisdiction), unless they have something to hide. It would explain Higgins actions that day. And it would explain the unidentified male DNA found on JO clothes. Nobody checked it against Higgins and I wouldn't be surprised if it was a match. Which would blow his 'never interacted with JO' testimony out of the water. He had a crush on KR, he was upset that she was blowing him off after flirting with him and I've seen guys go after someone's BF with a lot less provocation. Certain vocations and subcultures tend to breed a mindset that you can act with impunity because you're special. And some (a tiny minority) of cops get that mindset and it's ignored until someone dies. And it's certainly plausible to me that an ATF agent would take a swing or fight with a 'local cop' over a woman, especially if his pride has been wounded like Higgins was when KR played with him then blew him off.
There was no reason not to ruin the DNA against other men present that night, even the EMTs, if for no other reason than to exclude them, unless someone thought there might be a match that couldn't be innocently explained, or laziness. So, IMO, failing to do so was either sloppy police work or they didn't want to know. Either way, it taints, even more, the investigation.

 

[Odeto BJ]

I think I have read the content here and only briefly have I seen reference to which side of the Lexus hit what...So I'll try.
The broken tail light lens was on the passenger side of the car and the other damages were close by. JK was apparently at least near the road and some distance from the driveway at 34 Fairview when the alleged impact occurred. North is indicated on the diagrams from Trooper Paul on PP 22-23-24 this thread. Apparently JO was outdoors and wandering in his laced Nikes (?) after a 4-inch snowfall...I don't recall mention of a coat or other winter outerware.

Trooper Paul emphasizes the change from a left steering input to a right steering input (yellow highlight becomes red...) at 4-seconds into his detail record.

@BienickWCVB

Paul says tis chart shows Read's vehicle travelled just over. Says this data is "consistent with a pedestrian strike."

View attachment 510351

https://twitter.com/x/status/1801691212837228653

I edited out the reference to 97 MPH: the engine on that Lexus would be at about 14000 RPM to support that and all the questions would be answered because it would have blown up within 200 feet of the body...but I digress.

If the Lexus had gone much off the road at the instant of impact that would leave indications in the snow and on the lawn, so we can effectively discount that because all of LE to date would have found that.
If the Lexus was travelling N to S in reverse and the wheel was cut right (a little) some 60 feet from the driveway, the rear of the car heads right. If that was the direction of travel and the impact was at the rear passenger side the pedestrian must have been walking down the middle to East side of the road. Simple mechanics tells you the body should have ended up on the East side, toward the middle; similarly for the glass and debris.
If the Lexus was travelling S to N and the rear of the car heads right, the pedestrian was toward the West side of the road but the Lexus must have gone by him previously, by a distance of some 65 feet; presumably in drive. Therefore as it reversed and went past the point of impact, still doing 23.6 MPH, it would have been approaching the driveway of 34 Fairview. But...there are no large steering inputs with the car moving fairly fast and no brake applied for at least 35 feet after that twitch of right hand wheel.
I would be looking at the data immediately prior to this reversal to establish when the car exited the driveway, and if it was in drive immediately prior to the interval this chart describes. If it shows what I suspect, it is consistent with a vehicle going past the pedestrian moving forward, coming to a full stop and then reversing toward the pedestrian.
In terms of the charges being pursued: I believe the difference to be at least consequential.

 

[keek]

I came into this trial late, think that KR was lying her *advertiser censored* off and she drunkenly hit JO.
From what I've seen, I think someone, or someone's, (primarily Higgins but maybe also Albert) beat the crap out of JO in the yard and walked away, either not caring or not knowing how badly he was hurt and that's how he ended up dying in the snow. And Proctor was just slimy or thinblueline enough to take them at their word and not look in the house or interview anyone else present on the day it happened.
It would explain the 'buttdials' and destroyed phones. NOBODY goes out of their way to a mil base just to drop a destroyed sim card and cell in a dumpster (which makes it significantly harder and take longer to look for because it's fed jurisdiction), unless they have something to hide. It would explain Higgins actions that day. And it would explain the unidentified male DNA found on JO clothes. Nobody checked it against Higgins and I wouldn't be surprised if it was a match. Which would blow his 'never interacted with JO' testimony out of the water. He had a crush on KR, he was upset that she was blowing him off after flirting with him and I've seen guys go after someone's BF with a lot less provocation. Certain vocations and subcultures tend to breed a mindset that you can act with impunity because you're special. And some (a tiny minority) of cops get that mindset and it's ignored until someone dies. And it's certainly plausible to me that an ATF agent would take a swing or fight with a 'local cop' over a woman, especially if his pride has been wounded like Higgins was when KR played with him then blew him off.
There was no reason not to ruin the DNA against other men present that night, even the EMTs, if for no other reason than to exclude them, unless someone thought there might be a match that couldn't be innocently explained, or laziness. So, IMO, failing to do so was either sloppy police work or they didn't want to know. Either way, it taints, even more, the investigation.

I'm sure you're right about Higgins feeling that way as you say. Guys get weird when something like that happens, they 'stew' and JO'K and KR were 'in his face' at the Waterfall 'together'. Higgins should of just let KR be whatever she was being with him in the texts, as he thought initially she was prob. playing him and wondered why.
Yes, all horrific sloppy police work and now we know why more so as the women present when EMT's and police arrived were telling them 'what happened' pretty much. No professional procedures were then taken.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

MOO:

Something just strikes me about the drinking culture and entitlement of this group:
(the McCabes, the Alberts, Higgins. their kids, their cousins, the friends, etc.)

In the middle of a blizzard, well after dark, near midnight, drunk after bar-hopping and guzzling booze for a few hours, driving around town, and then having a late night after party.

Take all into account. there is a very good chance that something very bad is going to happen somewhere along the line. It just seems like they never considered, "well, maybe this is not the best thing to do."

Just shows me that they all think they're above the law.

 

[louvillian08]

Phantom jeep? I haven’t read all the comments so not sure if you are serious or being sarcastic. Higgins testified under oath his Jeep was there and also testified he did a sweep of the driveway. The jeep was most definitely there and he most definitely “swept” the driveway with his plow.

And every other witness (besides the McCabes) testified they did not a see a Jeep. Various testimony puts KRs car at the mailbox, says she pulled straight forward, the truck RN was in pulled in right behind her, etc. all which would have been impossible if the Jeep was parked where a select few people claim it was.

Curious the importance of placing the Jeep there

 

[TTF14]

And every other witness (besides the McCabes) testified they did not a see a Jeep. Various testimony puts KRs car at the mailbox, says she pulled straight forward, the truck RN was in pulled in right behind her, etc. all which would have been impossible if the Jeep was parked where a select few people claim it was.

Curious the importance of placing the Jeep there

I think the original intent may have been to have a reason to have not seen John's body? Blame it on the Jeep being there obscuring the view? It is a head scratcher.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

YEAH but you didn't include the most important players here doing all the above.

Karen and John.

sbmff
Take all into account. there is a very good chance that something very bad is going to happen somewhere along the line.

And it did.
Karen admitted on a video interview (dateline??) she and John where quarrelling in the car about whether they were actually invited to kick on at this party.
It is a pretty easy to see visual and an even easier one what transpired beyond.

All roads lead to KR. imo

I didn't hear her say quarreling. I heard her say that she was asking him if they'd been invited. I didn't get the impression of a fight, KR was just looking for clarification. MOO.

 

[HarmonyE.]

They said he changed his story, so he wasn't credible. That didn't seem to stop them from trusting Higgins and other peoples stories.

They didn't even attempt to locate him or identify him until Turtleboy interviewed him many, many months later and it sounds like their interview was focused on trying to get TB charged with illegally recording his interview instead of what Lucky saw or didn't see that night. So I doubt they took a very good or focused statement from him. I'm not sure if Proctor was one of them, but Bukhenik was. The jury will get to decide if Lucky's version is accurate.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I think the original intent may have been to have a reason to have not seen John's body? Blame if on the Jeep being there obscuring the view? It is a head scratcher.

IMO, the McCabes are trying to discredit the three young people who saw Karen alone in the car. By putting the Jeep in between their car and Read's, the McCabes are trying to call into question what these independent witnesses could have seen.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

I think the original intent may have been to have a reason to have not seen John's body? Blame if on the Jeep being there obscuring the view? It is a head scratcher.

or KR backing up. She couldn't have if there were cars in her way. Maybe she backed up halfway down the road if she reconsidered going to the party after she dropped JO off, then thought the best of it and carried on home.

 

[louvillian08]

I think the original intent may have been to have a reason to have not seen John's body? Blame if on the Jeep being there obscuring the view? It is a head scratcher.

Oh this is an interesting thought. I know JM initially tried to claim she left much earlier than she actually did, which would have been before BH left. But she was caught lying about the time fairly quickly.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

They didn't even attempt to locate him or identify him until Turtleboy interviewed him many, many months later and it sounds like their interview was focused on trying to get TB charged with illegally recording his interview instead of what Lucky saw or didn't see that night. So I doubt they took a very good or focused statement from him. I'm not sure if Proctor was one of them, but Bukhenik was. The jury will get to decide if Lucky's version is accurate.

I wonder if Lucky has been intimidated and changed his testimony.

 

[TristanP]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
Karen is the one on trial because, as Trooper Proctor admitted on the stand, they came to a conclusion that Karen hit him with her car and looked for the evidence to prove it.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

I think too though after waking up, with alcohol in her system and being groggy, that at first she only remembered being at the bar with him and the others. She didn’t really recall being at Fearview even after JM reminded her.

Yet still it probably wouldn’t make any sense to her that JO wasn’t home by then, especially not during a blizzard. He is more responsible than that, according to his friends and family who testified, and he had a niece at home to think about and care for. He sounded like too dedicated a caretaker to not make it home so he was up and ready for his niece in case she needed something or something went wrong during the storm. It doesn’t seem likely he would want to sleepover and get snowed in. And if he was going to sleep over he most likely would have still contacted her to inform her since somewhere needed to be there for his niece.

KR also called him 53 times that night and she received no call back in return. Usually if people call that many times others assume it is because there is some sort of emergency and considering she was with his niece that may seemed out of character for him to not contact KR back, even if they were in an argument, in case there was a emergency or medical problem.

Also, wasn’t she supposed to be his ride home but if he didn’t call her to pick him up how did he plan to get back in the snowstorm?

He doesn’t answer when his niece calls and JM doesn’t know where he is either. So the worry builds, where is he, how is he and is he safe?

From testimony from JM and KRob the worse case scenarios go through her head like perhaps he tried to walk home because he was still mad or out of spite (in this scenario drinking could have impaired his decision making too) and possibly got hit by snowplow or car by accident? What if he somehow succumbed to the cold? I think that is why she rushes out there to try to drive and look for him. She does to the bar and checks the streets along the way, maybe she tries to go to Fairview but got lost, since she only been there once and was drunk then too, and then to JM to help her and where she notices the tail light.

Her brain is still probably still affected by the alcohol so maybe she cannot think properly which could worsen her anxiety.

I don't know if that was a Freudian slip, but whatever, it works for me. Fearview instead of Fairview. Sounds about right.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I wonder if Lucky has been intimidated and changed his testimony.

He may be a little skittish. Yannetti said he wanted to meet at Lucky's place of work at the DPW but Lucky preferred to meet at an elementary school parking lot instead.

As it happens, Trooper Proctor Trooper's sister - the one who tried to warn him - works at the same school. Someone must have spotted Yannetti and told her, which is why Proctor tried to accuse Yannetti of some weird kind of witness intimidation when he was on the stand earlier this week. Yannetti says he had no idea she worked their and had no contact with any employee at the school. But as has been the case with other disgraced witnesses in this case when under pressure, scream "intimidation!" on the stand. The judge shut it down.

*Edited to add that Yannetti said after court that he was very pleased with Lucky's recall and his story. For what it's worth.

 

[TristanP]

Wait, that was Jen Mc you mean.

Yea, I meant Jen, typo!!

 

[TristanP]

I would guess that the Alberts were very well insured, having both a German Shepherd and a swimming pool.

But Chloe didn't kill John. His incapacitating head injury wasn't caused by any kind of a fall. It's a small but deep wound. In my opinion, the depth of the wound alone indicates he was smashed in the head by an object that was wielded by a person. And by something far harder than a little cocktail glass. Our skulls are very hard.

Bruising to fists would tend to indicate defensive wounds, maybe from a fight that happened immediately. Arm injuries tend to indicate the dog clawed at his right arm, when he was still able to hold the arm up to protect his face. Head injury caused by a heavy object possibly a few seconds later.

Yeah, im not saying it’s my theory, I was pointing out that having to euthanize the family dog wouldn’t have been the Alberts’ motivation to cover it up. Their financial loss would be much more motivating.